England World Cup Squad

[Nudger]

I know its early to be talking about the next word cup but a hell of a lot this squad can make it

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I know its early to be talking about the next word cup but a hell of a lot this squad can make it

UnderCurry could well be around for over a decade. I hope it is.

 

[ncurd]

UnderCurry could well be around for over a decade. I hope it is.

Sorry but we have to stick with Cunderhill it make smile like a schoolchild who just got away with saying a naughty word.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

UnderCurry could well be around for over a decade. I hope it is.

Yeah. But Willis might have something to say about that. Not to mention B Curry and Ludlam's likely to kick on too.

And then there's 8. I so, so want to see Uni Rig there.

Future's looking good in the back row.

And I wouldn't mind seeing Isiekwe getting some squad / bench time in the row.

 

[Reiser99]

I enjoy this side of looking at squads and yes it's early, but it does feel like we're developing some excellent young talent. Did this for Ireland, but here's who I think will be there in 4 years and the key players to build around. Btw I personally won't include anyone who will be 33+ because I feel at that point you either have to be world class consistently or there is a lack of depth. However doesn't mean they won't be there, I could be wrong.

Props: Sinckler, Vunipola, Genge (think these 3 are all key and a good foundation going forward)
Hookers: George, Cowan-Dickie, Singleton (George is the standout hooker here and I think the second choice is definitely up for grabs post world cup. Cowan-Dickie hasn't done enough for me to cement his place in the squad.)
Locks: Itoje, Launchbury (Itoje is the key man at 24, though Launchbury should definitely be in the side from now on. Kruis may still be about, though I think Lawes might be pushing it at 34.)
Back Row: Curry, Underhill, Vunipola, Ludlum (We've got 3 excellent players to build around as well as the likes of Willis, Curry v2 and Dombrandt. Could be a good time for English rugby here)

SH: N/A (If Youngs is still our no.1 in 4 years time then god help us. However we do have some young players as well some more experience players coming through. However we need to give them plenty of game time. Youngs has wasted enough time over the last 4 years and Heinz is not going to be around in 4 years time.)
FH: Farrell, Ford (Those two will still be around and with the likes of Smith coming through, could have some very good options)
Centres: Tuilagi, Joseph, Slade (These 3 can all keep developing potentially, though I'd like a back up to Manu as he could well be injured in 4 years time)
Backs: Watson, Nowell, Daly, Cokanasiga, McConnochie (I hope May might be there, but his pace could well drop over the next 4 years, but you never know. I definitely would like Watson at FB with Nowell and Cokanasiga outside him. That for me would give a good balance as well as a good attack. Daly still doesn't look right at FB and definitely fits the mold for the utility sub player.

Overall I can most of the team/squad being there in 4 years time. Obviously can't say how injuries or form will go, but I'm being optimistic. Only area of real concern is the same one as now, scrum half. Hope EJ starts blooding some new SH's from next years 6N's...a large part of me fears that he won't though.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd be extremely surprised if EJ doesn't blood some new SH's. I can kinda understand sticking with one of Youngs and Care to have at least one experienced SH, even if they are pants. After the world cup we have 4 years to build and you need to look at potential. Spencer, Robson and Simpson all stand out as offering more than Youngs. Youngs would also be 34 by the next world cup and unless he does a Peter Stringer, I can't see him being anything other than even slower than he is now.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd be extremely surprised if EJ doesn't blood some new SH's. I can kinda understand sticking with one of Youngs and Care to have at least one experienced SH, even if they are pants. After the world cup we have 4 years to build and you need to look at potential. Spencer, Robson and Simpson all stand out as offering more than Youngs. Youngs would also be 34 by the next world cup and unless he does a Peter Stringer, I can't see him being anything other than even slower than he is now.

You'd hope so.

It's a shame Spencer is 27 - he's the most talented English 9, but 31 at the next RWC is kinda pushing the limits of his prime (realistically he should be there now). He should be an established player by now, not a fringe/future potential.
Robson is the same age, and we've not looked at anyone young (nor can I think of anyone younger, bar Alex Mitchell, who does look very promising tbf).

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd be extremely surprised if EJ doesn't blood some new SH's. I can kinda understand sticking with one of Youngs and Care to have at least one experienced SH, even if they are pants. After the world cup we have 4 years to build and you need to look at potential. Spencer, Robson and Simpson all stand out as offering more than Youngs. Youngs would also be 34 by the next world cup and unless he does a Peter Stringer, I can't see him being anything other than even slower than he is now.

Simpson is already 31...

I reckon 9. Maunder 21. Vellacott could be very good for 2023.

 

[Reiser99]

Posted about this in the USA game thread.

In rough order of age I reckon we have as options.

Dan Robson Age 27 will be 31 @nwc
Ben Spencer Age 27 will be 31 @nwc
Stu Townsend Age 24 will be 28 @nwc
Ben Vellacott Age 24 will be 28 @nwc
Jack Maunder Age 22 will be 26 @nwc
Alex Mitchell Age 22 will be 26 @nwc

We've definitely got options, but going forward no one will be the natural successor. Tbh if Spencer and Robson had at least about 15-20 caps maybe you could argue that they could build on that for 2023, but they will be getting older...Is it better to cut our losses now and look at someone younger? Having said that Vellacott is out for 6-7 months as Olyy pointed out. Townsend's just coming back from a serious injury. Mitchell is also out until November. Maunder and Townsend will also be competing against Nic White, so not sure how much game time they will get. Robson has also been a bit injury prone too.

I reckon going into the 6N's we should pick based on form. Ideally whoever is playing better out of Robson and Spencer to start and the other on the bench with one of the younger players in the squad and coming on against Italy and maybe France. I definitely think we need to be giving our scrum halves more game time other than a token 5-10 minutes at the end unless the game is really close because it's the biggest area with absolutely no depth. Then by next year potentially see if one of the younger players is playing well enough to compete for the starting place. Definitely 2 years out I'd like one of the younger guys in the team regularly.

Also thinking about it, we usually have 5 games during the 6N's, 3 in the summer and 3 in the autumn, so 11 a year. So 44 games over 4 years, take away the last 3 AI's for the world cup, then realistically even if they played every game our scrumhalves next world cup will have less than 50 caps each. Jones has not only messed up SH's for this tournament, but could well have buggered it already for the next one.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

What about Harry Randall? I quite liked him at age grade as he offered quick and accurate delivery.

 

[Jashay]

Apparently 13 of the current England squad are 26 or younger:

Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Singleton, Itoje, Curry, Ludlam, Underhill, Billy V, Ford, Slade, Big Joe, Watson, Nowell.

That's a solid basis for a back row, and back three too. We've got decent players coming through in a lot of positions, too.

 

[Jimbo]

Simpson is already 31...

I reckon 9. Maunder 21. Vellacott could be very good for 2023.

I was going to suggest Vellacott, always like a quick SH and he has pace to burn.

 

[Scotty]

Harry Randall and Alex michell are the young 9s on form last season. vellacot is rapid but is how is his game managment?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Vellacott can play for Scotland IMO.

Want to see a back row of
6. Hill
7. Willis
8. Vunipola
One day.

Also Ben Youngs will only be 34 next Rugby world cup.
Easy 1st choice for Eddie.

 

[Scotty]

Tbh i feel bad for some.
B/T Curry
J/T Willis
Underhill
Ludlam
Hill
Ben Earl
Dombrandt

All fighting the 3 back row spots.

 

[Jimbo]

Harry Randall and Alex michell are the young 9s on form last season. vellacot is rapid but is how is his game managment?

i think he is more used to inject some pace in the second/last quarter, I don't believe game management is one of his strong points but he's 24 get him in camp and that can be worked on.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Tbh i feel bad for some.
B/T Curry
J/T Willis
Underhill
Ludlam
Hill
Ben Earl
Dombrandt

All fighting the 3 back row spots.

Ted Hill is truly top drawer and of those options probably the only true blindside. Given the ages of Lawes and Kruis and our abundance of back row talent coming through, would it be feasible to use Hill as injury cover for lock in the future with 2 back rowers on the bench? NZ did it in 2015 with Kaino. Something along the lines of:
6. Hill
7. Curry
8. Vunipola

19. Dombrandt
20. Underhill

 

[Reiser99]

i think he is more used to inject some pace in the second/last quarter, I don't believe game management is one of his strong points but he's 24 get him in camp and that can be worked on.

Thing is Vellcott's injured for a while. Simple fact is we have no natural successor to Youngs and I'd be wary of throwing the younger guys in the deep in straight away. Nothing worse than putting lots of pressure on them straightaway, they have a bad game and then are tarnished by one performance, which tbh has happened quite often in British sport, especially with our media. I think for the first 6N's we need to stick with one of Spencer or Robson, but identifying who is showing the best form of the younger players and have them in the wider squad and possibly on the bench for Italy. Then need to watch the younger guys closely and try to choose 1 or 2 to develop over the next 3-4 years.

 

[Which Tyler]

Tbh i feel bad for some.
B/T Curry
J/T Willis
Underhill
Ludlam
Hill
Ben Earl
Dombrandt

All fighting the 3 back row spots.

Whilst the likes of Mercer/Clifford don't even get into these lists of talented players who like missing out due to being part of a potential golden generation

 

[Scotty]

What about other positions, lock and prop? What young talents do we have? Obv theres itoje and iseikwe. joel kpoku? Who else and orops i dont know tbh