England World Cup Squad

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by ncurd, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    You 100% do.

    And it’s not like us wise owls haven’t been telling him that all along.
     
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  3. NickBD

    NickBD Academy Player

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    Teo never really looked great for England ( I know he had a great Lions tour but never did for Eng). Only reason he was picked because he was Manu lite.

    Hughes did start well in 2015 to be fair to EJ but since 2016 he’s been bad, like you say a wasted cap.

    If Shields was fit he’d have gone over Ludlam, you never want players injured but Shield didn't deserve to go. He had a couple of good games against Aus and NZ in autumn but was mostly average. He should have never been rushed in.

    Like most squads will be players who played the whole 4 year cycle and lose out at the last min to younger better players but the 3 above doesn’t feel that way it does feel like a waste rather then anything else.
     
  4. Dave Davies

    Dave Davies Academy Player

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    Any traction to this rumour about Cipriani?... Eggchasers were talking about it but it seems like nothing, right?

    Gotta say, if he is fed up and wants to stay in the good ol' US of A, there is a certain New England Free Jacks team who could certainly use a man of his skill set!... :p
     
  5. mkersyshull

    mkersyshull Academy Player

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    My 23 from the squad
    1) Vunipola
    2) George
    3) Sinckler
    4) Kruis
    5) Itoje
    6) Wilson
    7) Curry
    8) Vunipola
    9) Youngs
    10) Farrell
    11) May
    12) Francis
    13) Slade
    14) Daly
    15) Watson

    16) Cowan-Dickie
    17) Genge/Marler
    18) Cole
    19) Lawes
    20) Ludlam
    21) Heinz
    22) Ford
    23) Tuilagi

    Not sure I buy this Slade playmaker 13. He seems to have developed into a running 13 on the arc
     
  6. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref First XV

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    What a mad situation though, the sheer volume of basically brand new players is absurd - I count 5 players who weren’t even in the conversation at the end of the 6N, the last time England played a match:

    Heinz
    Francis
    Ludlam
    Singleton
    McConnochie

    I mean that is batshit crazy, that’s a sixth of the squad
     
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  7. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    I think you center combination is bafffling but I'll accept the rest.

    Only change I'd make here is Ford for Farrell but I don't believe it will ever happen so I have to be realistic. I think Heinz could bolt ahead of Youngs but I'm unconvinced.
    1) Vunipola
    2) George
    3) Sinckler
    4) Kruis
    5) Itoje
    6) Underhill
    7) Curry
    8) Vunipola
    9) Youngs
    10) Farrell
    11) May
    12) Manu
    13) JJ
    14) Coka
    15) Watson

    16) Cowan-Dickie
    17) Marler
    18) Cole
    19) Launchbury
    20) Wilson
    21) Heinz
    22) Ford
    23) Daly
     
  8. Tayga

    Tayga Academy Player

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    Taking just 2 scrum halves or tight head props seems very risky to me.

    I would have taken Williams as the extra tight head and Spencer as third scrum half - I would have left out Francis and McConnochie instead.
    Heinz did ok but Ludlam was impressive In his first outing.

    All in all a strong squad and any omissions inc Teo just reflect England’s strength in depth.
    The game in Cardiff will be interesting and I expect EJ to pick a full strength side for this one to put Wales psychologically on the back foot going into the WC.
    This WC is completely unpredictable and up for grabs and at least 6 teams have justifiable ambitions to lift the trophy.
     
  9. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    You 100% do.

    And it’s not like us wise owls haven’t been telling him that all along.
    I know I keep bleating about experience, but a great example are the 4 flankers - Curry, Wilson, Underhill and Ludlam who have 34 caps between them and it’s not like we lost a shed load of experience with Shields either. That’s just absurd in the one position where guile, nous and ability to push the laws is probably valued more than any other. You saw it with the way Ludlam got distracted / held in the scrum for Davies’ try. That was nothing to do with physical ability or talent, but everything to do with not being streetwise and that learning curve takes a while.

    I read the the other day that Jones has named over 120 players in his various squads which is just daft. I guess I’m disappointed that we’ve reached this stage with so many inexperienced players and a side which undeniably has a soft centre - the comebacks of Scotland et al were partly down to the lack of calm heads with the nous to slow the game down and take the sting out of the opposition. But this seems to be the most open RWC in ages and if we can keep everyone fit we could be in the mix. But I wouldn’t be staking my house on us beating Aus or Wal in the QF, always assuming we survive the group of death.
     
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  10. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    When it comes Flanker, who did we have I don't think anyone is advocating Robshaw or Haskell to be bought back, nobody who's come in was ready when they were playing and we weren't deft of choices back then Kvesic and Armitage are still no where near the squad.
     
  11. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    The blindingly obvious one is Wilson. He was around and despite having plenty of advocates for years didn’t debut until 2 years ago when he was nearly 28. Obviously he’s in the squad now, but he’s nearly 30 with 13 caps. He’s good but he’d be better with 35 caps to his name. Just needed a bit of succession planning, an area in which the ABs have traditionally excelled.

    Injuries have struck Clifford, Simmonds and Willis, but at 7 Kvesic would have been viable if handled better.

    And at 8, a pivotal position, Wilson will have to cover Binny. I guess he’d do a decent job but we could have had a 50 cap Ben Morgan who’s been consistently excellent for ages.
     
  12. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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    Agreed, of those we're taking, only Wilson could viably have been capped any earlier than he was. Of those we're not taking Dombrand isn't ready yet, Simmonds has been injured, Mercer and Clifford have been found wanting in training, Kvesic has been found wanting in scouting (not helped by spending the best part of 2 years outside of club XVs), Hughes and Shields have been found wanting at international level, Robshaw and Haskell are in their twilight years. Of those 9, only 2 represent significant experience left behind.

    I'll agree that Wilson and Morgan could have been given more caps - but Eddie obviously just doesn't like something about Morgan; and I don't recall anyone seriously proposing Wilson much before he was capped - he was simply 4-5 injuries down the list, but took to international rugby like a duck to water.
     
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  13. Mike Rolls

    Mike Rolls Academy Player

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    Only 2 tight heads worries me, especially when one of them is Cole, giver of penalties. The other worry I have is Daly as FB - fine in attack but too often exposed in defence
     
  14. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside International

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    As pretty much everyone else has commented a bit unbalanced in the prop department and scrum halves. I would have thought a third tighthead is preferable to a third loosie.

    The scrumhalves and Flyhalves will also have to be in each match day 23. Unless Slade is covering as third fly half?

    Are Mako and Nowell fit yet?

    Let’s face it this squad is not going to go all the way to the final come 2 November. Just got to concentrate on getting out of the pool stage.
     
  15. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside International

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  16. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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  17. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    How dare you.

    Though to be fair, even when I was singing his praises, I never really expected him to get called up tbh
     
  18. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    That's very light on caps outside the staring 23. 8/31 with 10 or less caps by my count. (I'm borderline exhausted rn so might be wrong)

    It'll be interesting how he deals with the last two pool games and QF considering. Topping any pool bar pool a isn't worth as much as usual in this world cup either which adds to the interest.
     
  19. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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    2015 LHP: Vunipola, Marler
    2019 LHP: Vunipola, Marler, Genge

    2015 HK: George, Youngs, Webber
    2019 HK: George, Cowan-Dickie, Singleton

    2015 THP: Cole, Wilson, Brookes
    2019 THP: Cole, Sinckler

    2015 LK: Parling, Kruis, Lawes, Launchbury
    2019 LK: Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Launchbury

    2015 FL: Robshaw, Haskell, Wood
    2019 FL: Curry, Underhill, Ludlam

    2015 #8: Easter, Vunipola, Morgan
    2019 #8: Vunipola, Wilson


    2015 SH: Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
    2019 SH: Youngs, Heinz

    2015 FH: Farrell, Ford
    2019 FH: Farrell, Ford

    2015 CE: Barritt, Joseph, Slade, [Redacted]
    2019 CE: Tuilagi, Joseph, Slade, Francis

    2015 WG: May, Nowell, Watson
    2019 WG: May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, McConnochie

    2015 FB: Brown, Goode
    2019 FB: Daly, Watson

    IMO 2019 Vunipola and Marler are better than their 2015 vintage
    2019 George is significantly better than 2015 George, but Youngs was better the LCD is right now. Neither 3rd choice is going to worry about anyone.
    2019 Cole is way less effective than himself in 2015, but Wilson was better then than Sinckler is just yet - though Sinckler has a much higher ceiling.

    Itoje is so much better than Parling; whilst Kruis and Lawes are probably more effective now; Launchbury probably isn't.
    This year's backrow is so much more capable, but do they have that gnarled cynicism that the best have?

    SH: gods dammit what I wouldn't give for a decent scrum half
    2019 Farrell wipes the floor with 2015 Farrell, whilst Ford has added more nouse, but has lost some of the excitement in the process.

    Each of those centres is a big step up on their 2015 competitors; with the possible exception of Francis vs [Redacted]

    May, Nowell and Watson are all better players now, Johnny out of all recognition - but by gods we could do with a FB that was actually accustomed to playing there. Coka adds a real fear factor though.
     
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  20. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    There's way more carry over from 15 to 19 than I realised
     
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  21. BPM

    BPM First XV

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    Despite the same concerns as everyone else (Tighthead & Scrum Half numbers), I’m actually fairly happy with the squad.

    If we play a similar side to the one that started yesterday with McConnochie in for Watson against Tonga and USA, it gives us a good opportunity to put out our best side fresh against Argentina and France.
     
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