Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by ncurd, Aug 12, 2019.
That raises 2 questions, firstly how did EJ convince WR of that ... and secondly WHY did he?!
He's probably told them that Williams will be included by the time it comes down to it
But that can’t be guaranteed, if a TH goes down in the captain’s run then we’re without cover except for Marler
It says cover, do we have to have 3? Surely that implies we only are require to have 2 as the cover it's refering to is within the 22.
It says cover last minute injuries. That's referring to situations like captain's run, when if a named tighthead goes down (3 or 18) cover can be brought into the 23 for them. So it means having cover beyond the 2 tightheads in the 23.
I’m pretty sure Ireland are also considering picking only 5 props with Andrew Porter covering both tighthead and loosehead.
Granted, he was originally a loosehead who has only switched to tighthead in the last couple of years, but it’s the same idea. Also worth noting that virtually all of his senior rugby (certainly at test level) has been at tighthead.
I agree, but the squad is what it is (for now ...). You’re acting like I picked it.
If McConnochie goes, then let’s play him against USA and Tonga to keep our better back three players fresh and ready to go for Argentina and France.
I'm pretty sure every team is only going to be taking 5 props; it is the norm. The issue with England's squad is that, whereas most teams will go for more tightheads, England have gone for more looseheads. It's far easier for a tighthead to cover loosehead then vice versa; Cole has done it before. NZ, Oz and SA all currently have tightheads in their squads who have played loosehead at international level before (Tu'ungfasi, Kepu and Nyakane).
5 props is normal, Marler does seem much less experienced at the position he's meant to be covering than everyone else in his role. Porter at least made his debut at LH and grew up playing there and only recently switched to TH.
Mconnochie, Francis, Ludlam, Heinz, Marler all big calls. Ludlam and Heinz perhaps less so as both very impressive vs Wales, though I'd still have personally gone for Spencer over Heinz.
We did seem to look fitter, stronger and hungrier than Wales did and the pace/power of our backs was also very notable. There were many fringe players playing for a place in that squad which is probably why, as Gatland and Eddie both remarked you can't read too much into it and I expect Wales to be stronger Saturday.
Yess Mconnochie the Cranbrook lad!! He's a class act that plays better on the bigger stages, wait for these warmups and you'll see.
Look whats happened to the England Sevens since he's left, he's class on and off the field, look at what all the Bath guys have been saying about him all season, He's 6,3 a unit with wheels and seriously seriously good in the air..
Well you say that.....
Curry may well be on track for great things, but still early days and he has plenty of scope to get better. Underhill's had a couple of great moments but injuries have stopped his career getting much momentum, while none of us have a clue what Ludlam's really about. For these purposes I'm counting Wilson as an 8 but if you include him as a flanker, yes he's had some excellent games, but there have been a few quiet ones too.
2015 flankers were Wood, Robshaw and Haskell. 6.5s all. So with Curry being an out and out 7 there's automatically a better balance this time round.
It's easy, very easy, to malign the 2015 vintage. None will go down as greats, but you don't rack up 50+ caps as they all did by being total mugs. That RWC 15 was a disaster went way beyond the back row.
Robshaw was often pitted against some of the best 7s around including McCaw. Not a natural 7, always gave it all he had. Sometimes bested, but generally came away with head held high enough and several MoM awards. Poor captain though.
Haskell won a man of the series award in Aus. He was big and horrible and sometimes I think we concentrated on the bad (of which there was plenty), and not giving enough credit when he did things well (also plenty). That may have been partly because he was a big character and stuck his head up above the parapet. Don't underestimate character, squads need those types. Who are the big characters this time who will be the focal points and glue the 19 squad together over six long weeks, let alone leading on the field?
Wood was MoM in win against the ABs and the best line out option out of any of these by a distance. Talking about the captaincy coloured a lot of opinions, but he still had some decent games.
Straight after the RWC was our 17 match winning run. In 16 of those at least one of the 2015 three was in the starting XV, on 10 occasions two of them. Will we see the current crop be part of something like that?
At the start of RWC 15 Wood Hask and Robshaw had 137 caps between them. Ludlam, Wilson, Underhill and Curry have a paltry 34. They may have potentially higher ceilings but, broken record time, that experience matters.
So I think all we can say is that they may potentially become better players. But the acid test is how they'll stand up against fully psyched Saffers, Kiwis, Welsh or Irish in a pressured RWC match with a lot at stake. Not sure on that yet.
Who's your statistics man? I'd like to offer him a job.
The thing is balance though isn’t it?
We’re the individual players incapable of forming part of a balanced back row? No of course not. But a) they WERE all limited, which makes achieving balance harder; and b) when the balance was wrong (as it often was under Lancaster) they looked ineffective as individuals and as a unit.
Frankly, one of Eddie’s greatest achievements was making England look a good team with Haskell and Robshaw in the same back row!
Kvesic been training with the squad this week. Almost certainly just a camp body, but it's something.
Cover for Underhill?
Ok so based on that...we need a 3rd TH. Cole just doesn't look reliable as a number 2. Whole starting front row struggled and it looked more solid with marler, George and sinckler. LCD especially got shown up by George coming on.
Locks were ok, but nothing special. Still worried by Itoje's discipline.
Back row did not look balanced and I don't like lawes at 6. I feel we end losing turnover opportunities. However I guess that is England's tactics. Push opposition back at the expense of turnover chances. Billy ended up being relied on far too much. Missed the likes of Wilson or Curry carrying.
Heinz did well again and Youngs still looks slow. Ford made some poor decisions and kicked poorly.
Joseph was probably our best player. Francis was pretty anonymous apart from 1 run.
Watson showed he's better at FB than Daly. Cokanasiga didn't have his usual impact.
Overall I think some players seemed a bit too complacent and we really lacked energy in the first half. I think out of the starters only JJ, Heinz and Watson really stood up. However at least no serious injuries again.
Lawes is a brilliant lock but just isn’t an international flanker.
Locks =/= Flankers
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