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English summer rugby

I quite liked England in 10/11, not going to lie, but they weren't amazing or particularly better than the lot we have available now to be honest.
Suppose it comes down to selection errors rather than EPS problems - lets see how we go in the Autumn/Six Nations, now that we've blooded some gooduns over the summer. If Lancaster continues with the Saracens lot then we've got reason to start sh**ting ourselves inside out.
 
It'd be a pretty rum do if they were tbh, most of the important players from then are still available now, just more experienced. In fact, really, it's a pretty rum do that we're not quite a bit better than we were then. I'd say the 2011 team is quite a bit better than we have now - players now, but the team yes, that side looked well set to win it before a fairly surprising collapse, people were worrying about 2013 from round 3. Plus, you know, it could score tries.
 
After the performances against Argentina, SL would have to be mad to bring back the previous back line. The Argies may have been poor and inexperienced but the desire to attack in England was a nice change from simply playing defence and waiting for penalties as we did in the last 6N. It's a useless tactic when your opposition maintains discipline. Those younger players seem much more eager to get the ball and actually do something with it. Wasn't impressed with how our forwards dealt with the Argie pick and drive though. They had done nothing else the entire game and we still got caught by it. That part was inexcusible IMO.
 
I quite liked England in 10/11, not going to lie, but they weren't amazing or particularly better than the lot we have available now to be honest.
Suppose it comes down to selection errors rather than EPS problems - lets see how we go in the Autumn/Six Nations, now that we've blooded some gooduns over the summer. If Lancaster continues with the Saracens lot then we've got reason to start sh**ting ourselves inside out.
10/11 was good for us because a bunch of players were in the form of their lives. The brilliance of Flood, Youngs, Ashton, Foden and Wood from that time period more than made up for the dullness of Hape and co.

I do wonder how the team would have done in the WC had Flood and Wood been kept in the XV, Allen and Tuilagi introduced earlier and Robshaw + Waldrom been involved.

But some people seem to be suggesting locking in Burns and Farrell to give them time to develop for 2015. And, if we are going to lock in, I'd rather lock in players who will be hitting what is a peak age and level of experience for most players than players who might have matured into fine internationals and done their apprenticeship by then. Which is Flood rather than Burns and Farrell.
Ah, I'm not suggesting that. I just want the coach to pick on form, and Burns is the right option in that case (and has been for the last year or so).

And I think j'nuh is very much underrating how much experience - both in terms of individual experience, and in terms of working together - matters in rugby. I do not think it is the be-all and end-all, but it clearly makes a huge difference. I would say that Wales' appearance in the semi-final was both deserved and lucky. They beat the teams they had to beat playing good rugby - but does anyone seriously believe they would have got there if forced to play Australia in the quarter-final? The history books suggest it would have been very unlikely. I don't believe they would have, and the logical conclusion is that they were lucky not to play them. And as I don't believe they would have beaten New Zealand or South Africa either, the logical conclusion is they were never going to win it. J'nuh reckons the closeness of the semi-final and the final suggests the teams were on a very close level. I disagree. Those sort of matches are often very close, closer than strength on paper would indicate, it's dues to the nerves and intensity of the occasion, but if one side consistently wins the tight games and the other consistently loses them, then I do not see the teams as being close to each other. New Zealand consistently won the tight games around them. Wales have been consistently losing tight games to the Sanzar teams. And one of the reasons teams win or lose tight games is experience, which translates into the know-how and confidence to deal with the pressure and not make silly mistakes. Not everyone has to be experienced - the team NZ used in the final is probably one of the least experienced and cohesive teams that won it - but there has to be a core, which NZ had in spades. The Welsh did not have it, and I do not believe we are going to have it either.
I always feel uncomfortable talking about experience because I find it to be a pretty difficult subject to talk about, but I'll give it a go.

Experience is important in some senses. The most important of these is in leadership in my opinion. Having leaders who have been around for years and have the confidence to guide the younger members is a very valuable thing to have. But people often talk about experience as the number of finals a player has entered, or the number of international caps. There's no way, in my mind, that 10-cap JSD is inexperienced compared to 30-cap Ashton. Or that Flood, having appeared in many more Premiership semis/finals than Nick Evans, is the more experienced one.

The only reason I value experience is that I know that older players have spent more time honing their skills in rugby. As with any skill, the more you work on it, the better you get. I think that there's nothing much more to experience than this. That experience is essentially equivalent to practice. If you spend 20 years learning the guitar, you'll probably be better than if you spent 2 years.

However, players have different limits and reach those limits at different ages. If player A has been around for longer and only just matches the skill of a much younger player, player B, it just tells me that player B is a faster learner, and may have a much bigger scope for improvement. I cannot find an upshot for a player taking longer to get to that point in their career, other than that the extra time in the game may have honed their leadership abilities. (As Flood has, he's been captaining the Tigers, ahead of even Parling and Croft.)

I also have to challenge his representation of Johnson's World Cup, which I find severely flawed. I don't think we played the long game - if anything, we made an abrupt change at the last moment - and there were a lot of changes in the 18 months preceding. Cole, Youngs, Ashton and Foden all only really only came into the reckoning in the 2010 Six Nations. Palmer cam back in along with Lawes and Hape in the 2010 Summer tour. I'm not saying Hape was a good thing, but he wasn't a long standing thing. That's 5 members of the team who'd only really been part of it for 18 months tops - not including Lawes or Hape as they didn't really start many World Cup games. In the warm-ups there were more changes - Wigglesworth and Stevens were only reintroduced at this point, Tuilagi got his first games, and we switched from Flood to Wilkinson and Hartley to Thompson, changing two guys who'd been starting for pretty much the last year prior to that.
I may have been better saying that there was a lot of stubbornness in making changes when it came to MJ. A few examples: Youngs was on fire, Care was badly out of form, and MJ stuck by Care initially. Similar story with Foden and Armitage. Similar story with Tuilagi and Tindall. These decisions took longer than necessary. He stuck by Moody and Wilko going into the WC because of his trust in them, when Flood and Wood were the right choices. (Although I stand by his decision to play Thompson.) Cole was a pretty obvious choice to make at the time, I believe a pretty poor Wilson was his rival then. He stayed stubborn in ignoring Allen to the end. He also stuck by the likes of Banahan and Easter, players he'd had around for a while, when JSD and Waldrom were available.

Quite simply, he was too loyal to particular players. Yes, he made changes in the months leading up to the WC, but it was only when those changes couldn't be ignored (eg the emergence of Tuilagi, Ashton, Foden, Youngs), or to switch back to a grizzly experienced player. There were no chances for a lot of the in form, younger players.

As for fly-half - we have plenty of prospects, but I'm not sanguine, as wrecking fly-half prospects seems to be what we do best. Take Cipriani. Olyy should be laughed out of the door for suggesting him at this stage. But one of he, Lamb and Geraghty should have been international class. Neither Wilkinson or Hodgson truly reached their potential - Wilkinson due to injury, Hodgson due to the shadow of Wilkinson and a crap pack. For all I rate him, I think Flood is about to fall into the same bracket as Hodgson, just with more injury problems. Farrell? The jury is out, some fine days and traits but plenty to improve on. Burns? Awaiting trial. I think he's a really good player, one of the few English fly-halves who can both create and control, but we don't know for sure yet. Was a bit too sloppy in Argentina for my liking. Slade, Ford, far too early to say really. Both have a lot of potential, a lot of things to work on, and really they need to nail down starting Premiership berths and show stuff there before we start talking about them imo. As for Botica, he would interest me, but his defence is appalling. Who knows, maybe Cips will make a come back... but to go back to the cohesion thing, it's not all on the pitch. We saw in 2011. Would Cipriani be welcome back in team England?
I would agree with this evaluation. It's worth pointing out that the reason I want Burns to be given the next few starts is that I think he does need thoroughly testing. Every time he isn't tested in an international window, you have to wait another 1/3 of a year to do it. I think that both Burns and Farrell could have had some good testing by now. Burns should have gotten bench appearances at the least, from 6N matches over the last two years. We'd have been in the position where we'd have tested both Farrell and Burns. Them competing with each other may have even brought out more in each other.

The good news for me is that a backbone is forming in the team. The start of the backbone seems to be Corbisiero, Cole, Parling, Morgan and Tuilagi. There are some more that are in pretty comfortable positions to be in the WC squad, that maybe aren't as comfortable at making the XV. A few more positions should solidify in the next year. And those positions where there isn't a clear starter, it's mostly because there are two or more strong options, and both of these can be given sufficient game time. Like, I think giving Twelvetrees and Barritt enough game time each so that we can pick based on form when it gets closer to 2015, rather than picking now and developing just one player. I think Flood is one of those players that has the experience to be successfully introduced later on if we need to.

Me, I'd like to see us take a step back. Select some players who are either heads above the rest, or select a style of player we have in spades, and build around that. That is what should provide our best team after all. Which, for me, would be Tuilagi and the sniping scrum-half - and I suppose I should include Ashton, Lancaster being the madman he is. Which suggests a team that runs support lines to people attacking around the fringes far, far more often than currently happens. Tuilagi is either the threat that prevents them from getting too narrow to counter this, or the weapon by which we punish them once they've got narrow and are on the back foot. Which neatly brings me back to Toby Flood, who is very good at attacking the fringes and using support runners. Freddie Burns could probably play this game too, Slade looks like he'd enjoy it.

Alternately... we start promoting our very fast wingers, play our best distributing scrum-half - Dickson at a guess - play a fly-half with good distribution whose running fixes people - Burns - and rely on the guys out wide to do the damage, with a hyper athletic pack supporting them. Unfortunately, I think we'd need a smarter 13 to play that game - it's a shame neither Twelvetrees or Eastmond plays there.

I suppose option 3 is to build around Farrell, which means a second playmaker is urgently needed. Although, really, Farrell's best hope of building a good attacking game at international level is to study the tapes of Wilkinson and Flood really hard - both worked very hard on their step and short passing - and spend a lot of time with a good sprint coach. Farrell would need an absolutely nails pack more than the other too, which is unfortunate, as we don't have one yet.

But anything really, as long as all the pieces fit. Which they have not done yet.
There is another alternative. I'd love us to play the "hit and run game". We have all of the ingredients. In order... Hit: Tuilagi, Morgan. Support: athletic pack. Keep them guessing: sniping scrum-half that can distribute (2010 Youngs preferably, but Care can do this). Run plus distribution: Burns, Twelvetrees. Run: many, many outside backs can play this role, but May/Yarde/Wade plus Foden would be ideal.

The main edge we have with this plan is that Burns and Twelvetrees can run AND distribute at pace. It opens up a slew of moves. Burns can run to the line and offload to Twelvetrees/Tuilagi. He can swing it wide earlier and then Twelvetrees take it up to the line. Twelvetrees then has the option of using Tuilagi as a ball crasher or, maybe even better yet, as a decoy runner, with a pacy outside back behind Tuilagi. Such a setup would bring so much fluidity in moving the ball through the backline, but also opens up a double-prong kicking game in Burns/Twelvetrees. When Burns gets tied in, it also means Twelvetrees can play first receiver. The main difficulty is generating that momentum. I'd love a notable tight carrying front rower, maybe a carrying 6 too. But I'd hope that an athletic pack plus Morgan means that we can get the ball recycling at a high enough pace to keep tempo up enough not to rely on having to have a strong carrier on every phase. This is where my biggest concern comes - we would absolutely not be able to afford a slow scrum-half. Youngs would have to speed up his delivery (and he can, he played with incredible tempo when first bursting out on the scene) or be ditched for Care.
 
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I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you all. We weren't better off with the 2010/11 group of players, in fact were the World Cup this coming Autumn I'd be much happier taking the current England group than the RWC 2011 squad.

For better of worse international rugby is now a cyclical affair with a 'long term' four year cycle as each team builds towards the next World Cup and a series of shorter cycles built around, for a top tier Northern Hemisphere team like England, trying to win the Six Nations. Therefore the squad England took to the 2011 World Cup was, supposedly, the result of a four year cycle to introduce new players, integrate them with survivors of the previous cycle, build team cohesion and come up with the group of players most likely to win a World Cup. We can argue about Johnson's methods until the cows come home but that is what the squad represented, the final product of this cycle. Now while I will admit that we scored a lot more tries in the build up to the 2011 World Cup than we've been doing recently I would contest the point that that means the 2011 squad was better. Even if the current crop of player is, for the moment, considered worse, I think we can all agree that the difference is marginal. When you bear in mind the we are currently only half way through a World Cup cycle the notion that the product of the previous cycle was, at best, only slightly better than what we have now suggest that perhaps the squad from 2010/11 wasn't all that great. Certainly I don't believe the current team would have leaked as many points against France in the QF or struggled so much in the group stages. I'm not saying that, if we could transport the current crop of internationals back to 2011, they would have progressed to the Semi-Finals but they certainly wouldn't have done worse in my opinion.

If you compare the squad make up I think a similar story emerges. For all the talk about Lancaster's inclusion of so many young or uncapped players in his first EPS being 'radical' I'm inclined to think that he was much more conservative than we all thought at the time. With the exception of Delon Armitage all of the players cut from the EPS were replaced with players in better form and with brighter futures (Armitage is the exception as he is still a world class fullback, unfortunately he is also a world class idiot). Lancaster kept the players who, as has been stated previous, were stand out performers during the World Cup and the period prior to it but when it came to the cutting the deadwood from the squad I honestly can't think of a player who wasn't replaced with a better alternative. That isn't to say that some of the players dropped were bad, but that there were better alternatives who were more likely to make 2015. Of course some later tinkering with the EPS has allowed the likes of Goode to get in and Ashton to overstay his welcome but broadly speaking the same pattern remains.

Lancaster's willingness to give youth a chance on tour, both in the midweek games in South Africa and in Argentina this summer, also means that the current England crop is much larger and more diverse. Johnson's England setup was a fairly stable affair in terms of selections whereas Lancaster has, a few frustrating bits of favoritism aside, picked much more on form and given younger talent a chance. Again I believe that this means England are in a better place now than in 2010/11.

There is also the question of the 'mini-cycle' if you will of the Six Nations. Obviously we won in 2011, for the first time in a while, but the last two Six Nations have seen England com tantilisingly close to a Grand Slam. But for a TMO decision in 2012 we'd have probably won the title if not the Grand Slam and in 2013 we went into the final weekend the only undefeated team. Again, for a group of young, barely capped players that is an incredible record.

I'm not saying that the current EPS, or the EPS that will be announced tomorrow is the finished product or even close to it. However I can't see how English rugby was in a better state in 2010/11 than it is now. I agree that the World Cup has somewhat tarnished the way we think about Johnson and his team but were we really better off with Matt Banahan in an England shirt?
 
Purely in terms of the fly-half debate, I'd have to say that Farrell in his year or so in the England shirt has found himself more privileged than Flood ro Hodgson could ever have dreamed of - by which I mean Hodsgon in particular is very unlucky that his career has only slightly overlapped with this new generation of english talent. Take the bunch fo forwards Hodgson and Flood had to work with on that 2008 tour of NZ:

Sheridan, Mears, Stevens, Palmer, Borthwick, Haskell, Rees, Narraway, Paice, Payne, Kay, Worsley.

The only thing at all worth salvaging from that bunch was the young back-row, one of whom soon became a gym monkey, the other out injured, and the last exiled in France.

What I'm saying really is that Farrell has the 'tools' to succeed yet has done little with them, where much of the time other guys who have seemingly been discarded, did not. Take also the midfield: If Farrell lacked the game-changer that is Tuilagi, England would have been half as 'successful' as they have been.
 
Haskell and Sheriden were penalty producing machines though. You could put money on the fact that if England infringed, it would be one of those 2 that did it.
 
Okay, England EPS tomorrow. I think the Sun were reporting that Wood is to gain the captaincy. May be nonsense, but does anyone want to speculate on this? I'd imagine that after giving Robshaw the captaincy for so long, and opting for Robshaw over Wood on every occasion before this, that the only reason Robshaw would lose the captaincy is that his position in the XV is looking wobbly...
 
You were using that pack to explain Hodgson's failings, but it was actually pretty good.

...No it wasn't. We had Payne, Mears, Stevens, Sheridan, Paine, Borthwick, Worsely... oh and David Paice who wasn't as consistent then as he is now.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here....are you saying that the pack back then was better than the pack Farrell has had for the last 18 months? My point is that the current packs that Farrell has worked with have been better than those of that time, and unless you actively disagree with that assertion, then we're just pointlessly quibbling about the finer details of what was honestly a pretty average and uninspiring team.

Anyway, an aggregate score over the two games of 81 - 32 suggests otherwise, frankly.
 
There's also a difference between the styles of play on show. 08-09 was when the dour aerial ping-pong game was in fashion.
 
Well I do see what you're saying, though. Truth be told, that team just underperformed man for man as well, Hodgson included. I remember at the time being quite optimistic about the tour, especially having seen that Wasps flanker combo giving teams all sorts of problems in the prem...only to see us pathetically swept away.

Hingsight tells me now that I overrated that touring team at the time, and now seeing our current pack, there's no doubt that our guys are man for man far more dynamic and varied players who contribute far more than just the statutory set-piece duties of England sides of old.
 
I think that was the tour where Hodgson missed a tackle on Nonu on that tour which led to Rob Andrew (who was caretaker coach at the time) publicly putting the boot into him and led to him being left in the international wildnerness for a few years.

There was an unstable coaching setup with a caretaker in charge may also be part of what led to underperformance on that tour as opposed to just poor players. They also had some off field trouble with some hotel incident as well which wouldn't have helped.
 
I completely disagree with those that are saying that Toby Flood has reached the top of his potential.

Toby Flood is becoming a better and better player. Since he was given captaincy of the Tigers in the last quarter of last season, he hit a vein of unbelievable form. In the AP semi against quins he was imperious and central to the backline that literally tore quins a new one in the second half. He made Nick Evans look line a plodding donkey that day and there's not many players who can claim to have done that!

Again, in the final he was brilliant for the 20 mins he was on the pitch before he got taken out by Courtney Lawes' late tackle. I was gutted for Toby when that happened because, had he stayed on the pitch in that final, people would have been forced to start giving him the respect he deserves.

Whether or not he should be England's 10 really depends on the style that SL wants England to play.

A lot has been said about Freddie Burns, but he's untested so far. I'd like to see what Burns can do when he's given his opportunity, but I don't think Flood should be discounted.

Fact is, we're going to have to wait to see what sort of form all these players are in when the new season kicks off.
 
Again, in the final he was brilliant for the 20 mins he was on the pitch before he got taken out by Courtney Lawes' late tackle. I was gutted for Toby when that happened because, had he stayed on the pitch in that final, people would have been forced to start giving him the respect he deserves.

The tackle was not late, and he was "taken out" by Dan Cole's knee... don't even try to deny that.
A hit to the ribs does not give you concussion.

So Toby Flood has not reached his potential 7 years after first being capped... how long does he need?
 
Most players don't fully peak until their late twenties. Like, I thought that was an accepted fact. A player's peak is when they've accumulated as much experience as possible while still retaining their athletic abilities. As for the seven years comment - Flood only got his first run of three games starting as a fly-half in 2009. The period Summer 2010 - 2011 is his only prolonged run in an England shirt at fly-half. I do not believe it is coincidence that the period was also England's best run of results for a long time. Saying "He's had 7 years, how on earth has he not learnt it all" is a bit like saying "Freddie Burns will have been an international for a year by the next window and any slip-up will be hard to forgive" - it completely ignores the paucity of meaningful gametime over most of the period.

Similarly, I am sure there is no coincidence at all in so many players hitting their best ever international form at the same period, and that this achieved things we had not done for a long time before and have not done since - a win in the SH and a Six Nations title. People hit their best form when surrounded by players and a system that brings it out of them. When they are put in pairings and units they perform well in. Is it a coincidence than Ashton's strike rate in tier 1 games Flood has started is better than 1 in 2, is 1 in 4 with Wilkinson (and that came with Wilko off the pitch and Flood on), and 1 in 5 with Farrell? It's actually 9 in 11 games with both Flood and Youngs.

I really don't believe this is a coincidence. I actually went and looked over the stats and did a blog article on it - http://muchadoaboutrucking.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/englands-central-problem_31.html - it being the difference between 6N 2011 and 6N 2013. Ignore the World Cup, that was a high water mark - maybe not by much, but it was - and if we can't replicate it we should know why. For people too lazy to read, we have vastly reduced penetration in the 9-10-12 channel. Youngs barely ever runs now, Farrell can't produce a line-break and Barritt's metres made stat is pitiful stat next to Hape. Or any other England 12 we've tried recently. And as a result we're not scoring tries and Ashton, who thrived on making late runs into these channels, is not making as many runs or scoring as many tries. People may taint the memory of that team with the actually markedly different World Cup team, or grimace because of Hape and Tindall - but it was clearly a far superior attacking system. Lancaster could learn a lot from it. And if we're being consistent, Barritt should be far more reviled than either Hape or Tindall.

I would actually agree we have a better squad now - not least because we still have all the important performers from the 2011 6N, but all of them with two more years' experience. I agree we're better off without Banahan, and the insistence on Lewis Moody, fit or not, and no Louis Deacon etc.etc. But this raises a really interesting question:

If we have a better squad now than we did then, and most people agree that the coaching then was incompetent and conservative, what does that make the coaches we have now if the results are worse?

I don't accept the argument that it's all about the World Cup. Obviously it's important but it should not define a coach's reign - it clearly does in this case in the minds of many - but it shouldn't. Plus, Johnson had 3 years - Lancaster is entering his third year. It seems very fair to judge the two on what they achieve in the same time period. Which means that if he does not sort the try scoring issue, beat some more SH countries, and win the Six Nations in the next year, I'll say he's done worse.

And if we think Johnson is conservative, what do we think about Lancaster? Martin Johnson took 4 games to replace an out of form Armitage - a guy who had recent top class international credentials - with Ben Foden - a guy who had only embraced his positional switch in the last year and who had questions over his basics. Lancaster gave the out of form Goode - with no international credentials - a full Six Nations, despite having Mike Brown - no specialist issues, form of his life - bumming around on the wing. Which is worse? Johnson gave Tuilagi and Youngs their international debuts when they were 20 years old after 18 and 17 HEC/GP starts each. How is that conservative? And if it is, how does it compare to the fuss and palaver over trying some of our young international wings - or giving Burns a go ahead of Farrell - or how long it took to cap Kvesic? And Lancaster has ignored Waldrom, if you believe him to be the answer, for Phil Dowson and Tom Wood, which is a far more serious crime than ignoring Easter (as an 8). And, again, Allen for Barritt is a far more compelling call than Allen for Hape. Stuart Lancaster is the guy who's ignored Garvey and Attwood for Mouritz Botha, the guy who ignored Fearns and Gibson for Tom Johnson, and Everybody for David Strettle. How he's considered to be a less conservative coach than Martin Johnson is beyond me. Courtney Lawes made his debut a full year comparatively ahead of Launchbury. And so on. Lancaster has adopted a more conservative playing style, makes changes just as slowly, and doesn't introduce players as young - people, forget the World Cup, look at the facts and open your eyes.

Stuart Lancaster has all the tools there to produce a try scoring England. If he doesn't, what excuses can we make? If you believe Tindall and Hape were awful players who sucked the creativity out of a team, or that Flood is a subpar international fly-half, or that Johnson was a crap coach, or that the players are not ahead of what we have now - how on earth do we excuse a guy who is getting less from more? I'd certainly agree with 3 of those 4 statements, at least partially. I want tries and victory, or I want Lancaster's head. And I also want Toby Flood involved. His recent form has been excellent. He is our only proven international fly-half who creates tries. He's the guy who links best with Ashton and Youngs, who Lancaster appears to be insisting on. Burns has also been in good form, and has huge potential as the sort of player we're looking for, but his Argentina tour was littered with unforced mistakes, and that has to count against him. He needs to be in immaculate form at the start of next season to overtake Flood - and so does Farrell. Farrell really needs to show he can run a try-scoring back line week in, week out.

I also believe that announcing Tom Wood as captain now would be idiotic. That's because announcing any change in captain now is idiotic - it is basically a hostage to fortune you don't need to give. But that aside, Wood? Dropping Robshaw? We've invested a lot of time in Robshaw as a captain and it looks like it might be paying off. So, let us take it from him, and give it to someone else. That in itself strikes me as risky and poorly thought out. I don't get the whole Tom Wood as leader thing either - he didn't look inspiring against Argentina, and it's not like he does a great deal of it at Northampton. And if we're really serious about "We Must Attack to Win", then locking out one of Robshaw and Croft - or both if we include Kvesic - when they are both superior in attack to Wood, strikes me as a dubious call.

Basically, to wrap this up, for one brief glorious moment we played a superior brand of rugby that genuinely looked threatening and successful. I don't think it makes the previous squad or regime a great thing, or that there weren't mistakes. But we should not be so quick to dismiss players who were pivotal to it - such as Toby Flood, or even James Haskell - and who have shown they can put in consistently top international performances. And we really should not be glorifying Lancaster so much when he has yet to hit those heights, or overlooking his conservatism. We should be heavily critical. If Martin Johnson can create a successful side using one of the worst centre partnerships ever, we should be expecting more than we're getting from Lancaster. Lancaster has done some reasonable building work - although I'd say he tore down more and rebuilt more than he needed to - but we should really be seeing results now.

And Jug Ears should be right in contention.

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J'nuh, I feel you're overlooking several key facets of experience and test match rugby - well, any rugby. Rugby is about executing simple skills under pressure. The pressure bit is the key. It's not so much about how well you perform the skill, but how well you perform it when exhausted, when you're about to get hit, when you've got a split second to decide, when you've got a huge burden of expectation on you. The pressure is huge at international level, and listening to the coaches speak, a lot of its in the player's own head as much as anything. This is where experience comes in and is so key. Managing that expectation, instinctively performing the skill, not getting caught up in the moment, reading the options in the time available - the mental skills are hugely important and only come with experience. Actually, to put it another way, yes it is a simple fact of the more you perform a skill, the better you become. But where as kids will be performing the technical and physical skills from five years old, the mental side of first class rugby, insofar as I can see, your only really start practising when you hit it. Therefore the difference of 7 years vs 1 year of international year in terms of technicality is relatively little most of the time. The difference in terms of mental capacity is often really big. Yes, there are some freaks out there, and some guys who simply can't pick it up, but generally, the top 4 per cent is what really benefits from experience. And the top 4 per cent is hugely important in test rugby.

Also, it's really keyed in to desire. A 32 will always want it more than the 22 year old - he has more bitter memories to banish and less chances with which to accomplish the act. Again, the top 4 per cent. How often do we talk about one team wanting it more?

And team cohesion. Again, it's one of those intangibles that effect the head only and is clearly important. We talk about the Lions tour, we talk about the difficult of making a team in so short a period of time. We all know some players perform better with others. It's why I can't buy into this argument of "It will be fine just to slot players back in at the last moment". It probably won't, we certainly saw that with Johnson. Building partnerships is as important as handing out international experience.
 
England Senior EPS announcement:

Forwards
David Attwood (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints), Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs
Chris Ashton (Saracens), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Christian Wade (London Wasps), Marland Yarde (London Irish), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)



ENGLAND SAXONS EPS (32)

Forwards
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Jordan Crane (Leicester Tigers)
Paul Doran Jones (Harlequins)
Will Fraser (Saracens)
James Haskell (London Wasps)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Kearnan Myall (London Wasps)
David Paice (London Irish)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
Luke Wallace (Harlequins)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)

Backs
Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Mathew Tait (Leicester Tigers)
Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
 
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