France vs All Blacks (21/11/21) 09.00am NZDT @ Stade de France, Paris

[NZbloke]

Graham Henry had control over the selection panel to pick the head coach - then a few weeks after Foster was chosen I saw Henry say the following on the tv sports news, " I think we selected the wrong coach " what a farce... if you don't have the right people on the NZRU board, they're not going to select the best panel to select the best available coach... like any big business if you don't have the right people at the top you're not going to function that well.
It's not just the coach that needs to be replaced, but also the tossers on the NZRU board.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

thats a quote? Henry said on TV "I think we selected the wrong coach"?

 

[NZbloke]

Yeah, that's what he said.

 

[NZbloke]

Our coaching staff made a pretty big **** up not selecting Laumape - we really needed a 12 like him... what an absolute waste, he had the brutal power, pace & skills, very similar to Nonu.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Our coaching staff made a pretty big **** up not selecting Laumape - we really needed a 12 like him... what an absolute waste, he had the brutal power, pace & skills, very similar to Nonu.

I'm not saying laumape shouldn't have been kept, but he is not at all similar to nonu. He doesn't have a wide fast passing game, only an offloading game. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't kick well. He doesn't have the same side step game. The only similarity between s both could run into people and both could put in big tackles. But laumape predominantly runs fast and flat at gaps whereas nonu predominately liked to get the ball a bit deeper and hold the defence in two or three minds with options to pass, take an outside break, step on the inside, or run straight. Yeah he hit the line straight and flat at time too, sure. But laumape was only effective at one style. Incredibly effective yes, but one of the least all round players I've seen make the all blacks. His biggest problem was trying to become a more complete player, which of course he was doing because the all blacks coaches told him to. Whenever he went back to what he was good at he would excel, otherwise he'd be anonymous.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Graham Henry had control over the selection panel to pick the head coach - then a few weeks after Foster was chosen I saw Henry say the following on the tv sports news, " I think we selected the wrong coach " what a farce... if you don't have the right people on the NZRU board, they're not going to select the best panel to select the best available coach... like any big business if you don't have the right people at the top you're not going to function that well.
It's not just the coach that needs to be replaced, but also the tossers on the NZRU board.

Yes he said that, but he wasn't saying they should have hired Robertson. He was saying they stuffed up the process and so the right people didn't apply. He has said they should have made sure rennie applied, because he was the right coach. He absolutely did not say they made the wrong decision given those who applied.

 

[Alex Anghel]

I'm not saying laumape shouldn't have been kept, but he is not at all similar to nonu. He doesn't have a wide fast passing game, only an offloading game. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't kick well. He doesn't have the same side step game. The only similarity between s both could run into people and both could put in big tackles. But laumape predominantly runs fast and flat at gaps whereas nonu predominately liked to get the ball a bit deeper and hold the defence in two or three minds with options to pass, take an outside break, step on the inside, or run straight. Yeah he hit the line straight and flat at time too, sure. But laumape was only effective at one style. Incredibly effective yes, but one of the least all round players I've seen make the all blacks. His biggest problem was trying to become a more complete player, which of course he was doing because the all blacks coaches told him to. Whenever he went back to what he was good at he would excel, otherwise he'd be anonymous.

It is true that Laumape isn't Nonu, but at the same time, he's better than any other "no. 12" options the ABs have at the moment I reckon.

You guys seem to have major problems, the same ones that haven't been properly addressed post the Lions tour 2017.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

The matchday 23 is:

1. Joe Moody (56)
2. Dane Coles (79)
3. Nepo Laulala (39)
4. Brodie Retallick (91)
5. Samuel Whitelock (131) – captain
6. Akira Ioane (12)
7. Sam Cane (76)
8. Ardie Savea (59)
9. Aaron Smith (101)
10. Richie Mo'unga (31)
11. George Bridge (18)
12. Quinn Tupaea (6)
13. Rieko Ioane (46)
14. Will Jordan (12)
15. Jordie Barrett (35)

16. Samisoni Taukei'aho (8)
17. George Bower (10)
18. Ofa Tuungafasi (43)
19. Tupou Vaa'i (10)
20. Shannon Frizell (16)
21. Brad Weber (16)
22. Damian McKenzie (39)
23. David Havili (14)

I wondered f they'd rest papalii, Blackadder and Taylor after last weeks efforts. Not a bad call I guess but cane is going to find this tough. Whitelock and retallick will be tired too.

 

[Alex Anghel]

Keeping Ardie out of position at 8 is ridiculous, as it blocks the development of other more naturally suited players for that role (i.e. Sotutu/Jacobsen), while depriving the team of a third line out option (does anyone remember how good Read was on stealing line outs)?

Will Ian Foster ever acknowledge that Rieko's place is on the left wing and not in the midfield?

Papalii was very good in Dublin, why bring an undercooked Cane from the outset?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[NZbloke]

I'm not saying laumape shouldn't have been kept, but he is not at all similar to nonu. He doesn't have a wide fast passing game, only an offloading game. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't kick well. He doesn't have the same side step game. The only similarity between s both could run into people and both could put in big tackles. But laumape predominantly runs fast and flat at gaps whereas nonu predominately liked to get the ball a bit deeper and hold the defence in two or three minds with options to pass, take an outside break, step on the inside, or run straight. Yeah he hit the line straight and flat at time too, sure. But laumape was only effective at one style. Incredibly effective yes, but one of the least all round players I've seen make the all blacks. His biggest problem was trying to become a more complete player, which of course he was doing because the all blacks coaches told him to. Whenever he went back to what he was good at he would excel, otherwise he'd be anonymous.

Disagree, I'm amazed you have come to the conclusion that he is only effective at one style, sounds like something Hansen would say, if he didn't like a player he'd tell them they need to go away & work on their game, yet he'd favour others... Hansen like Foster didn't have a good tactic to counter the rushing defence either.
I'm always analysing strengths & weaknesses of players skill sets in the positions they play in... Haven't seen any other midfield player that had a flat fast long pass as good as Nonu has... other than that Laumape has a very good all-round game, powerful, fast, good offloading game, good step, his grubber kicks are well weighted between the defensive players, just reads the game really well in general.
Annoys me when most players execute a grubber, they tend to kick it directly into an opposition player because they didn't have the nous to look for the space between players to kick it through.

I'm astonished midfielder Peter Umga-Jensen wasn't selected to tour.

 

[NZbloke]

Yes he said that, but he wasn't saying they should have hired Robertson. He was saying they stuffed up the process and so the right people didn't apply. He has said they should have made sure rennie applied, because he was the right coach. He absolutely did not say they made the wrong decision given those who applied.

As said they didn't have the right people on the panel to select the best coach available... it's a no-brainer that Robertson should've got the job.

 

[NZbloke]

Keeping Ardie out of position at 8 is ridiculous, as it blocks the development of other more naturally suited players for that role (i.e. Sotutu/Jacobsen), while depriving the team of a third line out option (does anyone remember how good Read was on stealing line outs)?

Will Ian Foster ever acknowledge that Rieko's place is on the left wing and not in the midfield?

Papalii was very good in Dublin, why bring an undercooked Cane from the outset?

I like Savea off the back of the scrum with his explosive pace & the way he can power through tackles with his leg drive to get us over the advantage line... the loose forward trio is a much better one than last week, a bit of a concern about Canes match fitness though.

Yeah, it's a poor call having Rieko Ioane in the midfield, as we've seen he keeps getting caught out in defence... he's one of the worlds fastest wingers, so play him there, him & Jordan's pace played a big part down the flank when Jordan score that try.

Aaron Smith fast passing game would've made no difference whatsoever last week where we got completely stuffed in the forwards.

Reckon Coles starting will make a diference in the scrum & his pace around the field.

 

[Alex Anghel]

I like Savea off the back of the scrum with his explosive pace & the way he can power through tackles with his leg drive to get us over the advantage line... the loose forward trio is a much better one than last week, a bit of a concern about Canes match fitness though.

Yeah, it's a poor call having Rieko Ioane in the midfield, as we've seen he keeps getting caught out in defence... he's one of the worlds fastest wingers, so play him there, him & Jordan's pace played a big part down the flank when Jordan score that try.

Aaron Smith fast passing game would've made no difference whatsoever last week where we got completely stuffed in the forwards.

Reckon Coles starting will make a diference in the scrum & his pace around the field.

Do you think there is the smallest chance of Foster being sacked if you guys lose against France?

 

[NZbloke]

Do you think there is the smallest chance of Foster being sacked if you guys lose against France?

Probably not... if the NZRU did pay him out of his contract they'd have to admit they made the wrong decision, they're too arrogant to do that.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I'm not saying laumape shouldn't have been kept, but he is not at all similar to nonu. He doesn't have a wide fast passing game, only an offloading game. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't kick well. He doesn't have the same side step game. The only similarity between s both could run into people and both could put in big tackles. But laumape predominantly runs fast and flat at gaps whereas nonu predominately liked to get the ball a bit deeper and hold the defence in two or three minds with options to pass, take an outside break, step on the inside, or run straight. Yeah he hit the line straight and flat at time too, sure. But laumape was only effective at one style. Incredibly effective yes, but one of the least all round players I've seen make the all blacks. His biggest problem was trying to become a more complete player, which of course he was doing because the all blacks coaches told him to. Whenever he went back to what he was good at he would excel, otherwise he'd be anonymous.

yes, i was thinking much the same but couldn't summon the energy to break down all the ways Laumapa isn't nonu

I'n saying that i think i would have done more to keep in in NZ as he's an actual 12 rather than trying to turn a fullback into one

 

[NZbloke]

yes, i was thinking much the same but couldn't summon the energy to break down all the ways Laumapa isn't nonu

What ? have you even watched Laumape or analysed his skill sets properly ?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Disagree, I'm amazed you have come to the conclusion that he is only effective at one style, sounds like something Hansen would say, if he didn't like a player he'd tell them they need to go away & work on their game, yet he'd favour others... Hansen like Foster didn't have a good tactic to counter the rushing defence either.
I'm always analysing strengths & weaknesses of players skill sets in the positions they play in... Haven't seen any other midfield player that had a flat fast long pass as good as Nonu has... other than that Laumape has a very good all-round game, powerful, fast, good offloading game, good step, his grubber kicks are well weighted between the defensive players, just reads the game really well in general.
Annoys me when most players execute a grubber, they tend to kick it directly into an opposition player because they didn't have the nous to look for the space between players to kick it through.

I'm astonished midfielder Peter Umga-Jensen wasn't selected to tour.

I actually really like laumape. I was really frustrated with him the first year he was in super rugby, as he was way off super rugby standard. But I really rate players who learn. And he learned so very fast, as you say became very good at reading the game. I do think he suffered from the all blacks coaches trying to tell him what to do though. Still, not similar to nonu. He responds to the reading of the game differently.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

What ? have you even watched Laumape or analysed his skill sets properly ?

love the arrogance of the only way you can accept someone has a different opinion is if that havent done something properly

We've already established we roll in very different circles when it comes to how we see almost every aspect of the game, no need to get worked up

 

[NZbloke]

I actually really like laumape. I was really frustrated with him the first year he was in super rugby, as he was way off super rugby standard. But breakout rate players who learn. And he learned so very fast, as you say became very good at reading the game. I do think he suffered from the all blacks coaches trying to tell him what to do though.

To be fair all young players are a bit green - Nonu use to be the same early in his career in Super Rugby too... both of them improved heaps in their skill sets & tough mental attitude... yeah, coaches can hinder players, best to just let them use their own natural flair etc, as long as they're making good decisions under pressure.