France vs New Zealand

[Prestwick]

I just noticed GayGuys post! Basically covered exactly what I just said so I basically wasted half of a forum page :lol:

I think the reluctance to use the line out as a weapon was down to the same reluctance to use the DG. Apparently Dan Carter has only scored on Drop Goal in the last few seasons and I have no idea how many McAlister has scored (if any).

 

[RC]

O'Ro has it nailed.
I have such respect for New Zealand. Seriously, these guys have some ridiculous talent at their disposal. They are elite athletes and there are MANY in that team that sit at the top of the world.
To work in the rugby shop in Cardiff and sell Mils Muliana a set of studs, to have Anton Oliver and Kevin Mealamu stroll passed the shop - you can't help but stand in awe because these guys make up a team that play this game (that i love SO MUCH) so ridiculously well.
The New Zealand fans who were in Cardiff on saturday were an absolute joy to interact with. A huge majority of people were so nice and easy to talk with - the banter flowed freely from "How much are the welsh jerseys now?" to "A little more than the New Zealand jersey will cost this time tomorrow." And everyone was great about it.
It's just the "over-confidence"...the arrogance which makes us into these bitter people in your time of loss.
Hell, the last thing i want to do is poke fun at someone for losing (I'm Welsh, for f**k sake, who am i to poke fun at?!) but all the talking up, and belittling of other sides got too much for a lot of us to take.

But in regards to the game I'm not sure a "leader" of crucial qualities stands out for New Zealand.
In my opinion Richie McCaw is the best 7 in the world - but as a captain he didn't put up his hand in the tense situation. He didn't have what it takes to do what was right in the last 10 minutes of the game (grab the 3 points). I'm not sure whether it was Balls or experience he was missing - but whatever it was, it's absence was screaming down the Millennium Stadium.
Honestly, for the last 10 minutes the way they threw the ball around and the way the forwards unsuccessfully tried to bully their way to the line it felt like watching Wales play - and you just KNEW they werent going to get the much needed 3 points, let alone the 5 or 7 they were looking for. Becasue they were approaching the game wrongly.

It was unlike any New Zealand team i've seen for many a year and it was strange to watch because i could realte to its ineffectiveness as a Welshman, i could relate to the lateral (and even territory-losing) style and as Prestwick pointed out to me, they felt like another Pacific Islands side - and we all know NZ are in a totally different league to that.

There is not one person who knows a lot about rugby that isn't shocked by that outcome.

 

[Stillknox]

Sometimes, I’m proud to be french…



What a match. Possibly not spectacular, but what intensity and drama. I loved the way that the French faced the haka : standing close to the Abs, dressed in blue, white and red. Not a provocation, just our participation in this ceremonial : « we exist too », proud of our colors. Also loved the face of the French during this, ready for the big fight.



What a defense, what a spirit. Excellent discipline too. But a crapy first half. The game plan « all boot » wasn’t very successful, but despites that Traille was good at fullback, better than the irregular Poitrenaud. Beauxis’s still green, but he was solid for his young age. Dusautoir was excellent in defense, strong in attack, man on the match. Michalak… aaah Michalak, the beauty and the beast. Sometimes genius, sometimes awful. Have to admit, his run and his pass to Jauzion were pure class. Jauzion who's still one of the best centre in the world. Clerc, Elissalde were great too.



I think that the second try is valid. Traille passed to the back, but Michalak comes so quickly that its seems to be a forward pass, but I might be wrong. If it’s the case, well… that’s a part of the game. The NZ tries were litigious too, especially the first one. The ref was blind on two touches found by the French. And after all the NZ got 70% field occupation, won almost every touches and scrums, and didn’t scored. We scored each time we was in good situation. McCallister’s fault is really clear for me. Quite frankly, this is not a stolen game.



I’m a bit sad for New Zealand. I think they’re still the best team of the world, but the point is you have to be the best at the best moment. The ABs don’t seems to have this “culture of elimination match†like the French, I hope this will be rectified in four years



Now, we cannot lose this one. Not again, against those bloody () English. Not again in final… this is our time ! I hope we'll meet again our Argentinians friends in final, with a litlle taste of Top14

 

[ak47]

CHABAL

I GOT ON FRANCE AT $17.00 TO WIN THE RWC ON SATURDAY!!!

CHABAL!!!

I HAVE HAD DREAMS OF THE CAVEMAN LIFTING THE WEBB ELLIS

IT WILL COME TRUE

CHABAL!!!

AND WHAT A HAKA!!!!

 

[goranski]

great occasion. great game.

fantastic opening france standing up to the haka with fire in their eyes

the french had plenty of luck on their side, the all blacks didn't get many decisions their way....as no doubt has been discussed

superb atmosphere - loved the roars for chabal and the olé's - magnificent effort by the french to keep the all blacks out at times with their defence

i have to feel for the all blacks they're a brilliant team of sterling athletes and a fantastic people and were unlucky not to clinch this one

sheer magic. i hope one day i can experience these types of games first-hand.

 

[Grandslam7805]

I'm still in absolute shock that New Zealand once again blew a lead against France.

 

[goranski]

in many ways an unbelievable win pulled off by the french - given what we've seen by the all blacks thus far - although one feels they never consistently played to their potential over the last two years or so

 

[KZNSharksFan]

Before this game I Thought McCaw to be one of the greatest captains in the world, in that game he looked like an overwhelmed young man.

NEVER NEVER NEVER before have i seen this All Black team implode in such tragic fashion. When the **** hit the fan, there was no one in the backline to take the bull by the balls and ASK for a dropgoal, no one had the confidence to take it upon themselves to attempt a droppie. The AB's missed the cool head of Aaron Mauger in the backline.

This is just one of many reasons why I believe they didn't come out on top as they should have

 

[Cymro]

O'Ro has it nailed.
I have such respect for New Zealand. Seriously, these guys have some ridiculous talent at their disposal. They are elite athletes and there are MANY in that team that sit at the top of the world.
To work in the rugby shop in Cardiff and sell Mils Muliana a set of studs, to have Anton Oliver and Kevin Mealamu stroll passed the shop - you can't help but stand in awe because these guys make up a team that play this game (that i love SO MUCH) so ridiculously well.
The New Zealand fans who were in Cardiff on saturday were an absolute joy to interact with. A huge majority of people were so nice and easy to talk with - the banter flowed freely from "How much are the welsh jerseys now?" to "A little more than the New Zealand jersey will cost this time tomorrow." And everyone was great about it.
It's just the "over-confidence"...the arrogance which makes us into these bitter people in your time of loss.
Hell, the last thing i want to do is poke fun at someone for losing (I'm Welsh, for f**k sake, who am i to poke fun at?!) but all the talking up, and belittling of other sides got too much for a lot of us to take.

But in regards to the game I'm not sure a "leader" of crucial qualities stands out for New Zealand.
In my opinion Richie McCaw is the best 7 in the world - but as a captain he didn't put up his hand in the tense situation. He didn't have what it takes to do what was right in the last 10 minutes of the game (grab the 3 points). I'm not sure whether it was Balls or experience he was missing - but whatever it was, it's absence was screaming down the Millennium Stadium.
Honestly, for the last 10 minutes the way they threw the ball around and the way the forwards unsuccessfully tried to bully their way to the line it felt like watching Wales play - and you just KNEW they werent going to get the much needed 3 points, let alone the 5 or 7 they were looking for. Becasue they were approaching the game wrongly.

It was unlike any New Zealand team i've seen for many a year and it was strange to watch because i could realte to its ineffectiveness as a Welshman, i could relate to the lateral (and even territory-losing) style and as Prestwick pointed out to me, they felt like another Pacific Islands side - and we all know NZ are in a totally different league to that.

There is not one person who knows a lot about rugby that isn't shocked by that outcome.




[/b]

B+, come back again!

No seriously good post!

I found some of the All Blacks fans complete and utter *****! Well the ones who sat next to me, I was annoyed that they ept saying for f*** sake ref he is off side, which they were not he was just on an angle that looked like they they were offside but where cleary behind the back foot!
Then the most shocking thing ever....

*Que violin player playing sad music*

One of these guys was also a complete prick, there was a young french lad to the side of this bloke, this kid was no more than 9 years old, was really excited and his dad had just paid over the odds for a tickets for him. This kid was estatic which was fasinatic to watch. He was constantly jumping up and down waving his French flag and screaming Chabal and stuff in French. What annoyed me was that this NZ got up of his seat and poked this kid in the shoulder unecessarily! But this bloke poke was an extremly hard one and then aggresivly told the kid to "Sit Down" which may have been fair enuff but his attitude was completly wrong. I therefore got up of my seat and told the NZ that he should apologise for upsetting the kid who did not make another sound for 30 mins (really not until full time), the NZ then told me where to go which I replied I dont think so, he told me that he would smack me but I told him that would not have been a great idea and that he had spolied this kid's day! As soon as it looks like id would cause a riot 2 other family members one Welsh and one NZ turend to this bloke and told him that what he had done was incorrect and that he should apologise, he still aargued and threatend but when more people joined in he stopped, but did not apologise!!!

BUT ........

There was hope ......

Well actually at the bar in a pub in Cardiff I meet another NZ and mates who although were gutted but were great people to meet. I have to admit these guys were down to earth and told me that they would have smacked that bloke also, and for that I have due credit for the majority of NZ fnas who are graceful in defeat!

 

[HarryPeters]

I think that the second try is valid. Traille passed to the back, but Michalak comes so quickly that its seems to be a forward pass, but I might be wrong.
[/b]

I'm sure it was forward, but hey who cares, you guys won and thats all the matters.

Congrats to France.

 

[nam97]

Sometimes, I’m proud to be french…



What a match. Possibly not spectacular, but what intensity and drama. I loved the way that the French faced the haka : standing close to the Abs, dressed in blue, white and red. Not a provocation, just our participation in this ceremonial : « we exist too », proud of our colors. Also loved the face of the French during this, ready for the big fight.



What a defense, what a spirit. Excellent discipline too. But a crapy first half. The game plan « all boot » wasn’t very successful, but despites that Traille was good at fullback, better than the irregular Poitrenaud. Beauxis’s still green, but he was solid for his young age. Dusautoir was excellent in defense, strong in attack, man on the match. Michalak… aaah Michalak, the beauty and the beast. Sometimes genius, sometimes awful. Have to admit, his run and his pass to Jauzion were pure class. Jauzion who's still one of the best centre in the world. Clerc, Elissalde were great too.



I think that the second try is valid. Traille passed to the back, but Michalak comes so quickly that its seems to be a forward pass, but I might be wrong. If it’s the case, well… that’s a part of the game. The NZ tries were litigious too, especially the first one. The ref was blind on two touches found by the French. And after all the NZ got 70% field occupation, won almost every touches and scrums, and didn’t scored. We scored each time we was in good situation. McCallister’s fault is really clear for me. Quite frankly, this is not a stolen game.



I’m a bit sad for New Zealand. I think they’re still the best team of the world, but the point is you have to be the best at the best moment. The ABs don’t seems to have this “culture of elimination match†like the French, I hope this will be rectified in four years



Now, we cannot lose this one. Not again, against those bloody () English. Not again in final… this is our time ! I hope we'll meet again our Argentinians friends in final, with a litlle taste of Top14
[/b]

Great post mate. Dusautoir was your star player for sure, the guy was a beast. I mean, he even made McCaw look bad, and who the f*** ever does that?!?!?!?!

 

[Wellycane]

Me and O'Ro were talking about this but....

...did anyone notice that in the last ten minutes, anyone in the New Zealand camp holding any kind of authority went AWOL?

There was absolutely no direction from guys like Jack, McCaw, anyone who has more than four or five years front line experience with the All Blacks.

Nobody was there to stop the All Black back line from imploding and turning into just another Pacific Island side; looking to break the line on their own, play sevens style rugby but without any direction or dicipline...

Where was that leadership from those in the All Blacks who should know better? Nowhere.

In theory, McCaw in that final pre line out huddle should have said "right guys, calm the **** down, just keep the ball in France's 22 and keep possession. McAllister, you hang back and when the time comes, give it the best shot you have at a DG."

Instead, whatever was said in that huddle probabbly went along the lines of "WE CAN DO THIS! NEW ZEALAND! WOOOO!" and as a result, the team just imploded against some superb French defense...[/b]

Yes I agree with you. Like I posted earlier (somewhere in this never-ending thread) before, about the All Blacks' repeatively setting up rucks, over and over again in that last 10 mins. That game plan did work before for So'oialo's try, but it wasn't for long enough later on. They probably thought it could happen again but talk about the bloody time. It took them over 30 mins (of the 2nd half) to score their second try so why not they try some other moves, at least kick and chase in the French in-goal area - possession was a huge favour for the ABs.



So obviously the team wasn't communicating well at all, they were just lost and 'out of sorts' and yes...no leadership.

 

[Dddooommm123]

that was an exciting game and stopped me thinking of that crap wallabies game. it looked so one sided at the start when mcalister blitzed the defence two times, it all started to go down slowly, but games won on beleif and passion are allways great to watch. I am very happy for the french because they where like my second team but sad for new zealand, to have such high hopes and the to go down. but this is turning into one hell of a WC.

i see some comments about mccaw being not as great a captain and i have to say that i agree. infact thats what i allways thought but i never said it because i thought i would get slammed about it. dont get me wrong he is a great player but not a suited captain, when it comes to ralying troops and making decisions. but like i said he is still a great player. i think he would be more comfortable with concentrating on his job as a player, but i dont see who else would be captain so it seems all blacks had a little leadership issue IMO

 

[stormmaster1]

Lots of people think there was a forward pass in the French try, but on the otherside i got to say that Carters pass for McCallisters break in the opening try looked ofrward to me too.

 

[Caledfwlch]

I think it was a big mistake to field Mils at 13. He's exactly like Thorne! He offers nothing to that position! All he does is feint a left, feint a right, and then run straight back into the opposition. Smith or Ice would have been better. And some months ago, people were saying Keith Robinson would bring an end to the AB woes. This season, he' s been a real pain in the arse. They should have fielded Williams and Jack. By far the most stable and dynamic second row partnership in the world, really. And what was Henry thinking when he left Doug on the bench!? Roks workrate is **** compared to Howlett's.

 

[charlievolano]

It is sad to see that rugby is to new zealand what football is here: just balme the ref and the coach.

France played a fantastic game, I think the pass wasn't forward (borderline), when france started coming back new zealand players looked scared with no leadership, a drop goal must be in the team mind when the result is tight (most WC finals and semifinals were won with late DGs).

First moments of difficulty the team sank. I think this puts and end to the ABS myth. Go Pumas now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nam97]

As much as I hate to admit it, but I think we witnessed McCaw's true leadership skills in this game. All very well when we're on the front foot (which applies to the last 3 years), but when we're on the ropes he just seems to disappear.

I don't won't to see him lose his captaincy over this, but I think you might find it shift to the likes of either Jerry Collins or Rodney So'oialo. McCaw also plays so much better without the burden of being captain. Jerry and Rodney would do a better job and I think would really make their presence more felt as a leader in tough times. An example is when we played England in 2005 at Twickers, we won 22-19 I think, thanks to Collins leading a 13 man team for the best part of 20 minutes.

Thoughts?

 

[ssera]

I'm French and I must say I was sitting on the edge of my seat for the entire match. New Zealand are just an awesome team to play against - I probably lose a few stones just watching them play (never mind against France! ) but - and perhaps they're starting to emulate us, by becoming "predictably unpredictable"?

Putting aside all the controversy of forward pass/harsh yellow card etc - this was one of the tensest matches I've seen in a long long time. I couldn't believe that we managed to hold on to a slim 2 point lead with NZ camping out in the French 22 for almost the last 10 minutes of the game. I can not even begin to explain why an attempt at a drop goal wasn't made sooner - you couldn't really have asked for a better position. Fate?

Overall fantastic game though, I really feel for the NZ fans & teams, you guys really have an awesome team and they deserve all the support they get. I hope you have better luck in 4 years time when playing on your own soil.

For now though it's time to concentrate on the next match aginst age old rivals England :box:

 

[diehardkiwi07]

In NZ no one is blaming the ref not even the media, BUT we are all mourning from a devastating lost, but not once have i ever seen on our t.v any excuse made up on why we lost the game. French won fair and square all the hype is from everywhere else

 

[I Bleed Black]

In NZ no one is blaming the ref not even the media, BUT we are all mourning from a devastating lost, but not once have i ever seen on our t.v any excuse made up on why we lost the game. French won fair and square all the hype is from everywhere else
[/b]

Up here in the UK, it sounds pretty bad back home.

I have to say that idiot who f*cked with the Wiki profile of Wayne Barnes including outrageous threats, has done nothing but make us look like the sore losers than some of our clan are.

I could understand changing a bit for a joke, but totally over the top - and right in view of the worlds audience???

Always one f*cks it up for the masses!!