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Guinness Pro 12 2014/15: Round 20

Not to get too much in to it as I'm a fan of Madigans and would start him but his tactical kicking is awful for 10. And that is majority of reason he will never be seen as a starting 10. Schmidt selected Keatley over him vs Italy on that alone. But factor in he hit 2 restarts dead last week too
 
munstermuffin said:
Not to get too much in to it as I'm a fan of Madigans and would start him but his tactical kicking is awful for 10. And that is majority of reason he will never be seen as a starting 10. Schmidt selected Keatley over him vs Italy on that alone. But factor in he hit 2 restarts dead last week too
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It's exaggerated, not good but not awful. It's very inconsistent but can be good, Gopperth is just bad all the time. The fact that the 12 was taking restarts must be factored in too!
 
cmac95 said:
It's exaggerated, not good but not awful. It's very inconsistent but can be good, Gopperth is just bad all the time. The fact that the 12 was taking restarts must be factored in too!
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No I think it's perfectly summed up as awful. It's the 1 area of his game that is terrible and I'm basing that on watching him a lot. His kicking from hand tactically to corners and accuracy in garryowens etc is poor.

Regards his restarts their not great but last Sunday was just an off day it's rarely that bad. It doesn't matter if your wearing 10 or 12. That just shows he's better than Gopperth.
 
munstermuffin said:
No I think it's perfectly summed up as awful. It's the 1 area of his game that is terrible and I'm basing that on watching him a lot. His kicking from hand tactically to corners and accuracy in garryowens etc is poor.

Regards his restarts their not great but last Sunday was just an off day it's rarely that bad. It doesn't matter if your wearing 10 or 12. That just shows he's better than Gopperth.
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Agree to disagree here, but I'm right! :p he's had games where his tactical kicking has been more than adequate from 10 and 12 in recent years, Gopperth hasn't really.

Isnt that hat the point of this discussion? That he's better than Gopperth?! :D
 
cmac95 said:
Agree to disagree here, but I'm right! :p he's had games where his tactical kicking has been more than adequate from 10 and 12 in recent years, Gopperth hasn't really.

Isnt that hat the point of this discussion? That he's better than Gopperth?! :D
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Well I'll start at start that area of his game is like Duncan Williams in general. Duncan has had some excellent displays this season. I'm not saying he's a top class 9 though. Madigan has had some games where kicking is good but most of time it's poor. That's fact we can agree to disagree but evidence is there he's a poor tactical kicker and it has held him back.

Regards last bit. I've said from start I'd have started him. But to back BG8 it's simply nothing between them which I'd point shows the lack of progression Madigan has made over last 2 years since Sexton left. And yes some can be blamed on lack of game time and that at 10 but overall some has to come back to player too
 
munstermuffin said:
Well I'll start at start that area of his game is like Duncan Williams in general. Duncan has had some excellent displays this season. I'm not saying he's a top class 9 though. Madigan has had some games where kicking is good but most of time it's poor. That's fact we can agree to disagree but evidence is there he's a poor tactical kicker and it has held him back.

Regards last bit. I've said from start I'd have started him. But to back BG8 it's simply nothing between them which I'd point shows the lack of progression Madigan has made over last 2 years since Sexton left. And yes some can be blamed on lack of game time and that at 10 but overall some has to come back to player too
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I'm not saying he's a World Beater, far from it but he's not awful or poor. He was bad last week but that was the first time he was bad since Munster earlier in the year but I'll happily accept he's not international class in this aspect of his game and now he probably never will.

Its one of the things that has ****** me off most about MO'C, as 10's he treated Gopperth and Mads completely different always giving Gopperth the benefit of the doubt through all sorts of ****e form. If Madigan had been given the chances if Gopperth Leinster would be in a far better position as it is, we've got a journeyman running a mid table side.
 
cmac95 said:
I'm not saying he's a World Beater, far from it but he's not awful or poor. He was bad last week but that was the first time he was bad since Munster earlier in the year but I'll happily accept he's not international class in this aspect of his game and now he probably never will.

Its one of the things that has ****** me off most about MO'C, as 10's he treated Gopperth and Mads completely different always giving Gopperth the benefit of the doubt through all sorts of ****e form. If Madigan had been given the chances if Gopperth Leinster would be in a far better position as it is, we've got a journeyman running a mid table side.
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And I'm not saying he is a bad 10 just that area of his game is poor. I've never seen a game where you'd say this guy can be a kicking 10. I'm not saying he's a poor 10 and yes he played well more times than not but he's a poor kicker. Like ROG was poor tackler. Sexton had yips goal kicking from left a lot. Not many 10s are complete.

Regards second bit I agree in 1 aspect BUT if Madigan was so superior he should've over 2 years made that gap so big that it was basically the given.
 
munstermuffin said:
And I'm not saying he is a bad 10 just that area of his game is poor. I've never seen a game where you'd say this guy can be a kicking 10. I'm not saying he's a poor 10 and yes he played well more times than not but he's a poor kicker. Like ROG was poor tackler. Sexton had yips goal kicking from left a lot. Not many 10s are complete.

Regards second bit I agree in 1 aspect BUT if Madigan was so superior he should've over 2 years made that gap so big that it was basically the given.
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Fair enough.

I knid of agree but generally if Mads was anything but fantastic he'd get the shepherd's hook, wasn't the case for Gopperth.
 
cmac95 said:
Fair enough.

I knid of agree but generally if Mads was anything but fantastic he'd get the shepherd's hook, wasn't the case for Gopperth.
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Well that's simply not true. I think Madigan can point to maybe one game where he can say he was fantastic over the last two seasons.
 
cmac95 said:
... And numerous where he was good and dropped the next week, Gopperth only had one fantastic game too in fairness and a lot more games.
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Can't just change your criteria.......

EDIT: In reality you're right. MO'C loves journeymen and hates quality. It's also shown in Fanning never being dropped with MO'C clearly telling all of Fitz, McFadden and DK to fake injuries so he doesn't have to play them.
 
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Gopperth makes a big run with his first touch and now puts Te'o through the gap for the try!

Also got both his place kicks. :D

So far all Madigan has done is sit on a bench....:p


EDIT: Great line by Henderson but shouldn't have let the gap get that big. Initial miss was bad as well.
 
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Ah, so that's the bad reffing in Ulster's favour we've been waiting for...
 
Typical that we've had great weather all week. Now it ****ing *******.
 
SOB yellow was deserved in fairness. For all the talk about 10 for Leinster. Gopperth has played well.
 

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