Guinness Pro 12: Round 6

[munstermuffin]

No indeed. Not a good enough runner for a 15.

Although I've a long and storied history of talking crap... so who knows.

No your right there. He hasn't got that running ability in open space. Paddy though from what I see is a decent tactical kicker. And if he can just be more consistent kicking his goals he will be a complete guy. His passing and vision at 10 is brilliant. And was lucky enough to congratulate him last week on being at RWC and we all forget he's still only 23 which is still very young for a 10.

 

[MunsterMan]

No indeed. Not a good enough runner for a 15.

Although I've a long and storied history of talking crap... so who knows.

Obviously OJ wouldn't be a like for like swap for Kearney, who is a 'good runner' and offers no creativity. Utilise his passing and vision, play him as a second playmaker in the side. Zebo is really who we should pick there, probably our most complete fullback.

 

[big ginger 8]

Obviously OJ wouldn't be a like for like swap for Kearney, who is a 'good runner' and offers no creativity. Utilise his passing and vision, play him as a second playmaker in the side. Zebo is really who we should pick there, probably our most complete fullback.

No he's not, he's just not. He has potential there but his positioning is and control of his wingers just isn't there.

Kearney is our most complete fullback with the only one capable of putting a solid argument against that is Payne. I know people don't like the running back to where forwards are but that's on orders, which is pretty obvious from the fact that Schmidt would never pick a player who repeatedly does something he doesn't want them to do and then there's the fact that there were quotes in the paper to that effect recently.

Also Jackson just doesn't have the pace for international level fullback. As Peat said, Olding is a better fullback version of Jackson.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No he's not, he's just not. He has potential there but his positioning is and control of his wingers just isn't there.

Kearney is our most complete fullback with the only one capable of putting a solid argument against that is Payne. I know people don't like the running back to where forwards are but that's on orders, which is pretty obvious from the fact that Schmidt would never pick a player who repeatedly does something he doesn't want them to do and then there's the fact that there were quotes in the paper to that effect recently.

Also Jackson just doesn't have the pace for international level fullback. As Peat said, Olding is a better fullback version of Jackson.

This! Zebo's positioning and kicking were found to be wanting against Italy and Jackson hasn't the running game, defence or height for fullback. Olding is promising but I think his future is in a Matt Giteau like role at 12 when Sexton goes. Zebo would need at least a season as first choice FB to be good enough, I do think he'll be our 15 in Japan if Kearney doesn't age well though.

 

[munstermuffin]

This! Zebo's positioning and kicking were found to be wanting against Italy and Jackson hasn't the running game, defence or height for fullback. Olding is promising but I think his future is in a Matt Giteau like role at 12 when Sexton goes. Zebo would need at least a season as first choice FB to be good enough, I do think he'll be our 15 in Japan if Kearney doesn't age well though.

Kearneys defence has been found out defensively a lot recently and as was pointed out by BT lads he's been the worst 15 defensively of all first choice 15s in the top 10 countries in the world.
Regards our 1st choice 15 if it was now I'd say Conway is going well but Jared Payne for me is the best 15 on these isles. Zebo as stated is I think already there when he gets the ball in hand. He can pass and has good vision and a boot. Positionally you only get that with game time there. And while Zebos defensive work has improved hugely his technique is still iffy and like Rob he could be very open to this area.

 

[MunsterMan]

If Kearney is Ireland's most complete fullback, I wish he'd show this passing range he supposedly has. I'm not the kind of guy to slag off people i don't know on the Internet, he's been a great servant but I just believe we need more creativity, especially when our centres don't provide much either.

Payne at 15 would get a huge thumbs up from me, but he is on the long term injured list.

 

[big ginger 8]

If Kearney is Ireland's most complete fullback, I wish he'd show this passing range he supposedly has. I'm not the kind of guy to slag off people i don't know on the Internet, he's been a great servant but I just believe we need more creativity, especially when our centres don't provide much either.

Payne at 15 would get a huge thumbs up from me, but he is on the long term injured list.

But that's the gameplan? Schmidt doesn't want him passing on the counterattack and he's usually used as a strikerunner in phase attack. He's certainly well able to pass, he's not exactly Willie le Roux but it's not like he's incapable. Being the most complete fullback also doesn't mean he has to be passer of our options. He's the best fielder, kicker and has the best positioning of our fullbacks. Those are the areas that go into making him our most complete fullback.

I know people are going mad for moving to a more attacking gameplan but gameplan's not the reason we lost to Argentina and we have been transitioning. Still our gameplan is based on securing possession and territory. Kearney is nearly the perfect fullback for that. He's also been a lot more than a great servant, he's a two time Lion and a European player of the year. He's our best fullback of the professional era.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Kearneys defence has been found out defensively a lot recently and as was pointed out by BT lads he's been the worst 15 defensively of all first choice 15s in the top 10 countries in the world.
Regards our 1st choice 15 if it was now I'd say Conway is going well but Jared Payne for me is the best 15 on these isles. Zebo as stated is I think already there when he gets the ball in hand. He can pass and has good vision and a boot. Positionally you only get that with game time there. And while Zebos defensive work has improved hugely his technique is still iffy and like Rob he could be very open to this area.

I never mentioned Kearney's defence? Ireland do defend in a way that if Kearney needs to defend we're already in trouble though, he's a good defender for Leinster and by no means a liability but it is a weakness to his game, I'll give you that.

Conway isn't proven at European level never mind international and Payne hasn't played 15 in over a year so that's a moot point unfortunately.

In the most shocking news of the decade I actually agree with what you say on Zebo, give him 12-15 months honing his skills as Munster's 15 and he could very well be a top international fullback.

 

[munstermuffin]

I never mentioned Kearney's defence? Ireland do defend in a way that if Kearney needs to defend we're already in trouble though, he's a good defender for Leinster and by no means a liability but it is a weakness to his game, I'll give you that.

Conway isn't proven at European level never mind international and Payne hasn't played 15 in over a year so that's a moot point unfortunately.

In the most shocking news of the decade I actually agree with what you say on Zebo, give him 12-15 months honing his skills as Munster's 15 and he could very well be a top international fullback.

Never said you mentioned Kearney. Just meant it is a spot that is open for competition.
Regards Conway your correct but he has tools but as you pointed needs to do it on bigger stages.
Payne I just think based on that form when he was a 15.
Zebo we agree