That's helpful. Gather a load of quotes, spin them out of context then spit a load of hyperbole in my face. Bravo. That thing you said about the French - 2 examples represents the entire nation. Fine, you I challenged you to find a racing fan (or whatever it was I asked exactly, can't be bothered to go back) and you delivered that. Can't argue that. However I'd ask: Are you honestly, genuinely telling me that is representative of every single fan? Or even the Majority? I still find that hard to believe. PS: "A debate is when you counter someone's argument with another argument" But again, enjoy your little victory Charles. Deliberately behaving in an antagonistic manor towards a member rather then a somewhat heated discussion on a subject earns you this magnificent victory. Celebrations all round.