IRB Sevens Series- Wellington Leg

[TRF_Olyy]

All evens going into USA then

 

[ranger]

Yeah he really caught the eye, which NZ province is he with?
(If he is even with a province))

He has been signed to Waikato since 08, they have just very careful not to rush him into top level football too quickly.
He also has a twin brother at Taranaki

Bloody hell. Well done NZ, walloped England 29-14 in the final.

How good is Declan O'Donnell? A hat trick in the final

Gordon Teitjens keeps unearthing these brilliant Sevens players. He is an effing genius!!!

I have a real problem with labeling Teitjens a genius.. O'Donnell has had a huge buzz surrounding him for many years, (he and Tawera Kerr-Barlow were the best players in the undefeatable Hamilton BHS side from '08). He has been the pet project of the Waikato Academy for years, its not like Teitjens picked him from obscurity.

All these players Teitjens "unearths" are well known in rugby circles anyway. All he needs to do is have a cursory look around the academies and ask who the best players are. Then he sits down at the Queenstown sevens and takes his pick of the many great talents on show. He puts on a 1 or 2 week fitness camp and then throws the players out there.

He picks these ready-made superstars, they win by virtue of their own individual brilliance and then he gets heralded as this genuis coach and selector. Its madness. I honestly think any old punter from the pub who had Teitjens' time and money could do just a good a job as NZ selector.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yeah he really caught the eye, which NZ province is he with?
(If he is even with a province))

Waikato - 9 of the 15 players are actually from Chiefs region.

Doubt he'll be a big player at XVs, he's a quick wing, which we have quite a few of (both in NZ and Waikato),but who knows?

 

[Shaggy]

Well done New Zealand ... It's been a few years since we won in Wellington - hopefully DJ Forbes is ok for the next round

 

[smartcooky]

I have a real problem with labeling Teitjens a genius...

I don't, and nor does anyone else in NZ's rugby community. I think you are in a minority of one ranger.

His fitness and training regimes are second to none, his ability to spot talent are also second to none. FACT

What have you got against him.

 

[ranger]

I don't, and nor does anyone else in NZ's rugby community. I think you are in a minority of one ranger.

His fitness and training regimes are second to none, his ability to spot talent are also second to none. FACT

What have you got against him.

I'm sure its a minortity but there are a few more members than you think. Some more notible than others.

And i have already said what i have against him, he doesn't deserve the praise he gets for "spotting talent". If you had seen Declan O'Donnell or seen the Waikato Academy in the last 3 years you would know he was going to be huge. There has been a massive buzz since he dominated all comers as a 7th former. He has been groomed as the next best thing for quite a while now.

Teitjens is in a position where all he has to do is select this guy that everyone has been talking about for years, and then he gets all the praise for "discovering" him. Its like the Cleveland Cavaliers scout getting called a genius for "discovering" LeBron James.

He gets the kudos for "discovering" Cullen, Lomu and Rokocoko.

Cullen went through all the age group sides, and was a very rare 2 term NZ Schools rep, so there was hype surrounding him already. He then dominated for a season at NPC level before being "discovered" by Teitjens.

Rokococo was the top try scorer in every age grade side he was in (which was all of them from under 16 level up) and he was a member of the elusive 2 year NZ schools club. Yet Teitjens gets the credit for plucking this guy from "obscurity".

Lomu was a member of the NZ 17s team for 2 years. a member of the schools team for 2 years. And was 6'5, 120kg and ran 100m in 11 seconds! Teitjens isn't exactly a genius for spotting this guy..

I just think the kudos should go to the NZ 17s selectors and the academy scouts and 1st XV coaches that actually find these guys, before they are huge names in rugby circles. By the time Teitjens gets to them they are readymade superstars.

 

[Amobokoboko]

I'm happy for NZ, but I still prefer it when and island nation wins it.

 

[nik]

Teitjens knows how to bring the best out of his players on the big stage. Declan O'Donnell would have been selected in the NZ under 20 team last year if he already had a big rep. But he wasn't selected.

Having the talent is not enough, Teitjens nurtures the talent, teaches discipline, attitude and at the same allowing his players to express themselves. This gives his players confidence to aim for higher honours, thats what a coach is for, a coach can only do so much, the rest is up to the player.

Ofcourse its ridiculous to suggest Teitjens "spots talent", he needs every bit of help. Its not his responisbility to develop talent, credit must go to the NZ rugby system for that. His responsibility is to unearth the pool of players that are available to him. His choices are limited as Super rugby players are not available to him, however he has lots of young players with raw talent available. Cullen, Lomu, Rokocoko, Corey Jane, Mills Muliana and many more had just that, raw talent, they were picked up at an early age and put in the spotlight by Teitjens where they achieved success allowing them to slingshot themselves to higher honours.

Look at South Africa, like nz they have large pool of young talented rugby players, however why are they not as successful as NZ in sevens?

It is madness to suggest any old punter can do Teitjens job. He is a super coach.

 

[ranger]

Teitjens knows how to bring the best out of his players on the big stage. Declan O'Donnell would have been selected in the NZ under 20 team last year if he already had a big rep. But he wasn't selected.

The under 20s is just one team. Tim Nanai-Williams, Matt Todd and Gillies Kaka missed out on the NZ 20s but you can't say they didn't have big reps following them from a young age. I know a few people in Waikato and i have played (and been hammered by) O'Donnells Hamilton team before. I'm telling you he has a reputation that preceded him into the NZ 7s.

Having the talent is not enough, Teitjens nurtures the talent, teaches discipline, attitude and at the same allowing his players to express themselves. This gives his players confidence to aim for higher honours, thats what a coach is for, a coach can only do so much, the rest is up to the player.

Teitjens held a one week trial camp in january with 25 or so trialists chosen from the Queenstown sevens. Then after he picked his contracted squad he had another week long training camp, before chosing the squad for the wellington sevens, after which they had a few more days of practice.

Thats barely two weeks. Either he is the greatest coach in the history of the world for being able to do all those things you listed in whats really one week of coaching, or alternatively; he merely picks the best players available, tells them to run some laps (his fitness drills are reknown, but come on, does it take a genius to just run guys into the ground?) and then puts them out on the paddock a couple weeks later and watches the kudos roll in.

Just watch some replays and think, how much of a role did coaching really play in this try, and how much of it is down to player talent.

Ofcourse its ridiculous to suggest Teitjens "spots talent", he needs every bit of help. Its not his responisbility to develop talent, credit must go to the NZ rugby system for that. His responsibility is to unearth the pool of players that are available to him. His choices are limited as Super rugby players are not available to him, however he has lots of young players with raw talent available. Cullen, Lomu, Rokocoko, Corey Jane, Mills Muliana and many more had just that, raw talent, they were picked up at an early age and put in the spotlight by Teitjens where they achieved success allowing them to slingshot themselves to higher honours.

Super rugby players aren't available as you say, but he has his first pick of the best teenagers in New Zealand, thats better for him.
If he was picking established rugby players than that would hardly be as impressive as everyone knows what they can do. If he picks guys that not many people (outside of hardcore/academy circles) have heard of then he is a genius.. Regardless of how much Teitjens had to do with the kids ability or success.

Look at South Africa, like nz they have large pool of young talented rugby players, however why are they not as successful as NZ in sevens?

Look at South African rugby. They churn out worldclass grinding forwards with ease, and traditionally like their backs to have an insane kicking game, be able to tackle just as hard as the forwards and run fast hard straight lines (obviously there are some exceptions)

Look at NZ rugby. Its full to the brim with Maoris and PIs trying to break each others ankles with their sidesteps. We have far more rugby guys learning their trade playing touch rugby than SA does. Its all about finding space, keeping the ball alive and supporting the runner, which translates very well to sevens. These touch guys bring their game to rugby fields, which in turn influences the way everyone grows up learning to play the game

If i were to hazard a guess as to why NZ does better than SA at sevens, i would say we just have a more suited skill set to it on the whole. Not because we are any better coached.

It is madness to suggest any old punter can do Teitjens job. He is a super coach.

I simply don't think Teitjens is as good as people make out. Hes good at what he does, but good is where i draw the line. Heres an example to prove my point:

In mid November Gordon Teitjens selected a side to compete at the Goldcoast sevens; A non IRB sanctioned sevens event with a big winners purse. The team was named "Emerging New Zealand Sevens" and contained Toby Arnold, Bryce Heem, Declan O'Donnell, Zar Lawrence, Solomon King, Justin Wilson, Jason Hona, Gillies Kaka ect.. It was pretty much just the NZ sevens side.
Obviously they were expected to walk the tournament. They lost however, shown up by the Taranaki Academy team who completely played them off the park.

Teitjens responded by including a number of the Taranaki academy players (Jackson Ormond, Cody Rei, Scott Waldrom, Kane Barrett, Waisake Naholo and Warwick Lahmert) in the NZ trial squad, and including Ormond and Waldrom in the first two legs of the series.
None of the players made the cut for Wellington however.

My question is, how did Teitjens manage to get blown out of the water by a team made up of guys that can't make his team? Is it because hes a poor selector for not finding any of these talents that have always been readily available? Or is he a poor coach for taking a team made up of far more talented players and finding a way to get dominated by an inferior side?
Also, how was he not able to get the same results out of the Taranaki guys once they had been selected as their academy coach did?

(Taranaki were thrown together at the very last minute also, as they were unsure if they could even afford to get over there. So the idea that Taranaki won because they had more time to gell and set as a team is dead in the water already)