Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by The Alpha Bro, Oct 8, 2017.
Is seen exclusively as a lock too.we not exactly short of 6s either
Fardy was brought here exclusively as a lock too! Schmidt will use him where he wants.
Yes but Schmidt is one who has singled him as a lock. And Munster will play him as a lock. Fardy is only plating as 6 due to iinjuries
Beirne will only play at lock for Munster for obvious reasons but if Schmidt thinks that that the team will improve by picking him somewhe
Not really untouchables more about competition. I think Conan is still well ahead of Deegan at this stage. He was brilliant earlier this season and injury etc have interfered since then but he's still well ahead of Deegan at the moment.
Tadhg Beirne will almost certainly see most of his game time at second row for Munster, simply because they don't have enough quality locks. Leinster can put Scott Fardy at 6 due to injury because James Ryan and Devin Toner are playing so well. If all backrow options were fit, Fardy would move back to the second row and partner Ryan.
For Ireland, Beirne becomes a backrow option, as does Iain Henderson. Ireland's top three second rows will be Ryan and Henderson starting with Beirne on the bench in my opinion. Should Peter O'Mahony have to go off for any reason, Beirne or Henderson can slot into his position. Their versatility will become invaluable.
I've been disappointed with Conan. Deegan while not as powerful is a much better footballer. Speaking of Leinster 8s, they'll be looking over their shoulder now that Caelan Doris is there.
It's a brilliant position for Leinster to be in. Jack Conan hasn't been as good this season as he was last season but I'd still pick him ahead of Max Deegan if it was a straight shootout for a starting spot in a final. Could change next season.
For the Ireland squad 2020/21 thread, I've a feeling we'll be discussing Jack O'Sullivan, Max Deegan and Caelan Doris quite a bit as options at 8. Doris may be a better 6 though.
I do think both Deegan and Doris will end up being better players than Conan Conan is definitely the superior player at this point in time. He gets a lot if undeserved criticism about his workrate even though his tackling and carrying stats are consistently among the best in the team (I think, if anyone has information to the contrary I'll accept they're right), and that he goes missing when the team is on the back foot which seems like bizarre singling out for no particular reason (and Deegan has been part of some fairly abject this season performances himself.)
He can carry powerfully, pass, offload, and tackle excellently and intelligently. He had a brilliant year in 2017 and was fantastic in the first half against Italy during the Six Nations before he went off at half time.
He does have some fairly obvious drawbacks but overall he's a very very good 8. Deegan and Doris could get ahead of him sooner rather than later but they'll need to play their way into the Ireland squad and I don't think Deegan has done that yet.
I'm surprised that people are so confident that Beirne ends up being a bench option, considering how well he has played this year. Ryan and Henderson are great options in the second row, but I do think that Beirne might shift one of them out of a starting spot. I could see Henderson becoming the bench option instead (again, due to his versatility) depending on form.
Henderson and McFadden are out for the summer tour so we're going to have to find another lock and it makes the wing selection a bit easier. Since the world cup we've already had two development tours so it would make sense a lot of sense to use the Aussie tour as a bit of practice for Japan in terms if numbers. We could take
LH: Healy, McGrath and/or Kilcoyne
Hooker: Best, Cronin, maybe Scannell
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan/Bealham (depending on fitness)
Lock: Ryan, Toner, Beirne, probably Dillane
Backrow: Stander, Leavy, POM, J Murphy, Conan, Ruddock if he's fit
SH: Murray + 1/2 of McGrath, Cooney and Marmion
10: Sexton, Carbery, maybe Byrne
Centre: Henshaw, Aki, maybe Arnold (Larmour plays 13 so do we really need him?)
Back Three: Kearney, Larmour, Conway, Earls, Stockdale.
I'm too tired to think properly about this right now so I could be missing somebody really obvious.
I know he’s getting married soon and we already have the precedent of TO’D (I think) staying home for his wedding, think it wouldn’t be the worst idea.
Difference is McGrath has gone backwards and it's a catch 42. Do you leave him try play his way back in to form or let him rest but put pressure on him after summer that he must hit form to retain 17
Can't argue that Jack McGrath hasn't played as well this season as he did for the last couple of seasons. The question is has Dave Kilcoyne done enough to push ahead of him? His form has tailed off as the season has progressed too.
Right now I'd say Denis Buckley is Ireland's second best loosehead but realistically, he's not getting picked.
I'd argue James Cronin too.
Now Kilcoyne is simply just a bit flat due to intense schedule in recent weeks. Bit I'd argue on form McGrath has dropped to 4th or 5th choice. But equally I vouch and said this would happen back last November. After the Lions tour this was always going to happen. And is a fatigue issue. But as I said it's a catch 42 as he's been poor so do you rest and expect form to return or tour well try play him in to form.
On tour though I think it's vital Beirne gets time. I also think Conway needs serious time at 15. Ok I've banged on about RK in past but he is going to be there at 15 but after that we need to settle on someone else and I'd argue Conway is that man as another option. Also I'd say of 3 tests play Murray with Sexton once if even at all. Try Murray with another 10 and Sexton with McGrath or whoever.
Centre is a big puzzle too. Not for depth but what is the best formula or is it a horses for courses approach.
In pack again we are settled but develop depth. I'd also be very cautious with Murray and Sexton as season has been very long
On form I'd say that after Healy who's head and shoulders above the rest there's very little between a lot of players. Jack McGrath is obviously the standout in terms of reputation and ability but his form has been fairly similar to the likes of Kilcoyne, Cronin, Buckley. After him all the other options are short on international experience while he's done it all before so they'd benefit a lot more from the experience while he looks like he needs a break more than any other player in the country.
On the actual team for the tests I'd say we'll see what we had at the end of the 6N with a few changes for each game. Getting other players time at fullback is vital given that with Payne and Zebo out of the picture Kearney is the only fullback with any degree of international experience. Conway is the most obvious option although I wouldn't be opposed to a bit of time for Larmour there as well. I do think Henshaw-Ringrose is our best centre partnership (and they have the advantage of playing together) but I'd be lying if I said that there weren't times where I thought a Farrell or an Aki would come in useful. It's good to see a bit of depth there given that we've been a bit short there in recent years. I'd like to see Carbery get a start with the first choice team as that's a lot more useful for his development as a backup than sitting on the bench and playing for the second string v Tier 2 teams. Same goes for the backup scrumhalves.
The pack selection is fairly routine and there won't be any big decisions until O'Brien and Henderson get back. The only question is at hooker. Obviously the fact that Best has gotten this far means the plan is to stick with him till Japan after which he's presumably going to retire but if Scannell stays fit next season and finds a bit of form and Cronin maintains his current level it'll be very hard for him to keep up. I'd have Beirne starting all three games especially with Hendo out and I can't wait to see him in green to be honest.
Test against Italy in Chigago confirmed.
IMO Cooney should definitely get a start to see what he can do.
I don't think any of the other candidates (**Murray included**) could have done any better behind our pack this season.
Pretty underwhelming opposition if you ask me, but I get it, we already have an Aussie tour. We should definitely try some different combinations and give a couple guys a break. Need to give a nine besides Murray and a ten besides Sexy some time starting.
I think we will win this tour too.
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