Ireland Squads Named For Tonga & Australia

[An Tarbh]

I don't see a huge amount of changes being made from the Australia side, maybe 5 at most, Sexton will start, maybe Cullen and Ronan will come into the pack, Fogarty may well get a start depending on how fit Flannery is. Maybe Earls will start on the wing instead of Fitzgerald. Kidney didn't make a huge amount of changes from the Canada side to take on New Zealand so I imagine it'll be more of the same this year.

 

[munstermuffin]

Been honest in IRFU set-up Jone and Hurley are ahead of Horgan because there is one eye on 2011.

I don't think many regulars will feature against Fiji as this is basically a game to breth new guys in and give fringe players a shot.
Paul O'Connell and BOD will both be rested.

Hope to see Sexton start all 3 test though as he is the form fly-half in squad and needs experience.
Cullen and Ronan will play against Fiji.

Also think if Flannery is out Cronin will start all 3 games at hooker as he needs experience too.
Fair play to Kidney though he is assembling an excellent 22/23 players that all have reason to start and is great for squad

 

[An Tarbh]

well he didn't make a raft of changes against Canada, what makes you think it'll be any different this year?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Nov 7 2009, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Been honest in IRFU set-up Jone and Hurley are ahead of Horgan because there is one eye on 2011.[/b]

I'm sorry but that's being delusional. Horgan will be 33 when the World Cup comes around. He could easily make it to New Zealand. He's showing some real form for the first time in two years. Assuming two of Bowe, Fitzgerald and Earls aren't fit for the Australia game, I bet that 100 times out of 100 Horgan would get the call up over Jones or Hurley at this point in time regardless of him being named in the A squad. Any other opinion shows a pro-Munster bias as opposed to rational thinking in this instance

Jones and Hurley haven't yet shown they're up to Heineken Cup level never mind international level.

 

[An Tarbh]

Hurley proved himself in the knockout stages of the HEC last year, hasn't done too badly this season either, agree though that Jones has a lot more to prove and feel that's why the A team would have been a good opportunity for him to do so. Someone else can hold the tackle bags.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Nov 7 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hurley proved himself in the knockout stages of the HEC last year, hasn't done too badly this season either, agree though that Jones has a lot more to prove and feel that's why the A team would have been a good opportunity for him to do so. Someone else can hold the tackle bags.[/b]

Hurley played in the knockouts but was pretty poor especially in the final against Toulouse. He looks a lot better on the wing but hasn't ben tested at the highest level below test rugby (Heineken Cup) in that position yet. Until he does, he won't add any more caps to the one he won during the summer. If he develops his self belief and appetite for work to, say, Ian Dowling levels, he should have a future with Ireland.

 

[An Tarbh]

well only in a crisis given the other options we have and the age of them to boot. Think he's a better prospect than Dowling who should never get a proper cap.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Agreed. Hurley can be moulded into a good player - he has the size, speed and skills to have a strong career as a winger. What he needs to develop is confidence on the ball. Dowling has the confidence - he's just a slow, shortarse who's made the most of his ability!

 

[An Tarbh]

I've huge time for Dowling, as you've said he's made the most of his ability and will never give you less than 100% but given the other options and the class they have he doesn't stand much chance of an international future. If Hurley can match the work ethic of Dowling he'll go further as he's a much more talented player.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Lets play a game of 'what winger would you pick'

For a match tomorrow
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Earls
Horgan
J Murphy
Carr or Hurley
Trimble
Dowling
Jones

For the World Cup 2011 Squad
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Earls
Murphy
Hurley
Carr
Horgan or Jones
Trimble
Dowling

The second list is obviously how see things having developed by 2011. Though my hopes are based on an outside chance they Jonny Murphy comes back to Ireland. Maybe to replace an AGEING Horgan at Leinster.

I think Carr will be a great player if he develops is defense a bit.

Don't know how Jones will develop, 33 year old wingers are patchy and losing pace. Horgan is one of my favourite wings over the years but age happens.

Trimble has rubbish positioning.

Dowling. Nuff said.

There is of course chances of players coming out of acedemies. Dave Kearney and Nevin Spence and Danny Barnes etc....but I invite everyone else to play the game.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Nov 7 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Lets play a game of 'what winger would you pick'

For a match tomorrow
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Earls
Horgan
J Murphy
Carr or Hurley
Trimble
Dowling
Jones

For the World Cup 2011 Squad
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Earls
Murphy
Hurley
Carr
Horgan or Jones
Trimble
Dowling

The second list is obviously how see things having developed by 2011. Though my hopes are based on an outside chance they Jonny Murphy comes back to Ireland. Maybe to replace an AGEING Horgan at Leinster.

I think Carr will be a great player if he develops is defense a bit.

Don't know how Jones will develop, 33 year old wingers are patchy and losing pace. Horgan is one of my favourite wings over the years but age happens.

Trimble has rubbish positioning.

Dowling. Nuff said.

There is of course chances of players coming out of acedemies. Dave Kearney and Nevin Spence and Danny Barnes etc....but I invite everyone else to play the game.[/b]

Agreed that Jonny Murphy deserve a shot but really surprised people dislike Dowling as I for 1 find him very consistent and watch next time and see he rarely fails to gain ground.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The misinformation spread about Dowling comes from LF.com where a lot of posters have an irrational hatred for him. Perhaps it's because he's the definition of a "Lunster" - Leinster born and bred but Munster through and through. He's a good, solid pro and I'd have no problem having him in my squad since he rarely if ever lets his team down. His attitude is top notch. He's just not up to international level though. He's not a good enough finisher and he lacks top end pace.

For 2011, I don't see a "bolter" forcing his way into the squad in the back three. If Ireland go with 5 backs three players, they'll be Kearney, Bowe, Fitzgerald, Earls and whoever's showing the most form out of Hurley/Horgan/Trimble/Jones. A year further down the line, players like Dave Kearney, Andrew Conway, Nevin Spence, Tiernan O'Halloran and Fionn Carr could come into the reckoning. At that stage I think Horgan will be deemed too old for international honours and Fitzgerald and Earls will be moved into the centre.

Bolters in 2011 could come from the 2nd row (Caldwell?) and prop (none of the tightheads behind Hayes are that impressive). Perhaps even a scrumhalf can force his way into the 30 man squad.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Nov 7 2009, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The misinformation spread about Dowling comes from LF.com where a lot of posters have an irrational hatred for him. Perhaps it's because he's the definition of a "Lunster" - Leinster born and bred but Munster through and through. He's a good, solid pro and I'd have no problem having him in my squad since he rarely if ever lets his team down. His attitude is top notch. He's just not up to international level though. He's not a good enough finisher and he lacks top end pace.

For 2011, I don't see a "bolter" forcing his way into the squad in the back three. If Ireland go with 5 backs three players, they'll be Kearney, Bowe, Fitzgerald, Earls and whoever's showing the most form out of Hurley/Horgan/Trimble/Jones. A year further down the line, players like Dave Kearney, Andrew Conway, Nevin Spence, Tiernan O'Halloran and Fionn Carr could come into the reckoning. At that stage I think Horgan will be deemed too old for international honours and Fitzgerald and Earls will be moved into the centre.

Bolters in 2011 could come from the 2nd row (Caldwell?) and prop (none of the tightheads behind Hayes are that impressive). Perhaps even a scrumhalf can force his way into the 30 man squad.[/b]

Snoop agree with you in that apart from Cian Healy we don't have certain plaayers for prop and it is going to be problematic for Ireland.

But I hope Fitzgearld is moved into centre soon as he possibly is our best 12 at moment, I dunno I jus think D'Arcy isn't same player and Wallace while great squad player isn't consistent enough for 12

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Apart from Healy the cupboard looks fairly bare. Ross can do a job holding the fort once John Hayes retires (I think Hayes will be carefully managed to make it to the 2011 world cup and retire once it ends) but he's not a top class option. Tom Court doesn't have a lot of miles on the clock and can be a decent backup option. Of the other contenders, Buckley hasn't progressed despite all the time and effort thrown at him. Horan could be 4th choice loosehead behind Healy, Wilkinson and Court by 2011.

Of the younger breed, hopefully Jamie Hagan will get a good scrummaging education at Connacht. He's doing okay but hardly stands out. Right now Adam Macklin appears to be a Tony Buckley clone but he's only 20 so with good coaching, he could improve his scrummaging. I thought Stephen Archer tried hard on his first start for Munster but he was popped in the scrum frequently - not great but better than Buckley who would have been marched backwards in the same situation. Timmy Ryan is way down the Toulon pecking order. He's another good ball carrier but poor scrummager. Darragh Hurley is a good scrummager but is rarely fit! Jack McGrath looks like a talented player at Leinster but he's primarily a loosehead who'll struggle to make it past Cian Healy. Dennis Buckley at Connacht could be a good one but again he's a loosehead. It seems that all the tightheads coming through are good ball carriers but need work on their scrummaging.

I agree that both D'arcy and Wallace have their faults. D'arcy has had a couple of good seasons but right now he's out of sorts as an attacking force. Wallace is an excellent distributor but lacks D'arcy's defensive qualities. I think it's too early to bring Fitzgerald into the centre since his distribution needs to be worked on. If Ireland are to make a change in the centre, it could be Tommy Bowe who comes in, operating a left and right centre partnership alongside O'Driscoll rather than as a true inside centre - like how Ireland operated when D'arcy was first paired with BOD.