Ireland World Cup 2019 Thread aka "Quarter Final 4"

[Leinster Fan]

Who do we reckon is making the initial training squad? It's 45 players, right?

So something like

LH (4): Healy, Kilcoyne, McGrath (not really deserving on form but he'll definitely be there) and someone else, probably O'Sullivan
Hooker (4): Best, Cronin, Scannell, Herring
TH (4): Furlong, Porter, Ryan, Bealham
Lock (6): Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Beirne, Dillanne, Roux
Backrows (7): O'Brien, O'Mahony, Stander, Conan, Ruddock, Van Der Flier, Murphy
Scrumhalf (4): Murray, Cooney, Marmion, McGrath
Outhalf (4): Sexton, Carbery, Byrne, Carty
Centres (5): Ringrose, Henshaw, Aki, Farrell, Farrell
Back Three (7): Stockdale, Rob Kearney, Earls, Larmour, Conway, Addison, Baloucoune.

We might want another prop or add Kleyn to the second rows. Deegan and O'Donoghue would both probably deserve a callup in the backrow but it's a strong area and we don't really need them. The only other real question other than that is that last wing spot, I put in Baloucoune because he's a really exciting player coming off an excellent season, Adam Byrne should 100% be in with a shout after being consistently good for Leinster this season, wouldn't be surprised at all if Schmidt went for Dave Kearney, Joe is a fan and he's been really good for Leinster this year.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

What's people's opinions on Stander playing 7?

6. O'Mahony 7. Stander 8. Conan has a very 6. O'Mahony 7. O'Brien 8. Heaslip look to it.

 

[Leinster Fan]

What's people's opinions on Stander playing 7?

6. O'Mahony 7. Stander 8. Conan has a very 6. O'Mahony 7. O'Brien 8. Heaslip look to it.

Not a massive fan, Leinster's backrow absolutely were completely on top af the breakdown when Munster tried it last week. If we don't pick Josh Vdf to start in Japan I'm going to lose it.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

CJ Stander's not carrying well enough for 8 nor is he as good a tackler or over the ball as Josh van der Flier. I'd be dead set against picking him at 7. The best balanced Irish backrow would see Jack Conan at 8 and Josh van der Flier at 7. I'd love to see Tadhg Beirne at 6 but it'll be Peter O'Mahony looking angry and turning it on for 3 or 4 games per season in that shirt.

 

[big ginger 8]

SO'B out of the WC due to hip surgery. Very said end to a great Irish career.

Wrap VDF in cotton wool

 

[Leinster Fan]

Sad to see.

I wouldn't completely give up on a Stander-O'Mahony-Conan backrow, it worked against Australia and France, but Josh is absolutely key now.

Between Jordi and Ruddock for the fifth backrow slot now, Ruddock has had a better season but Jordi probably offers better cover in more positions. Ruddock is best at 6 and we already have O'Mahony, Henderson, Beirne and Stander there. With Leavy and O'Brien out Jordi probably needs to go as another seven.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

SO'B out of the WC due to hip surgery. Very said end to a great Irish career.

Wrap VDF in cotton wool

Yeah an incredibly sad way for SOB to end his Ireland career. One of my favourite Irish players along with BOD, POC and KW.

 

[Jockstap]

The issue is POM,VDF, Stander got completely out-muscled in the England/Wales games, now it could be that just a quick attitude/mindset change is needed and obviously it wasn't the only issue in those games but I really felt we were missing Leavys ultra aggression/physicality during the Six Nations. When you're going up against teams who have Itoje/116 kg and Vunipola/126kg in the back row against POM/107kg and VDF/104 makes me wonder do we need to sacrifice one to bring in someone like Ruddock or Conan?

 

[Leinster Fan]

The issue is POM,VDF, Stander got completely out-muscled in the England/Wales games, now it could be that just a quick attitude/mindset change is needed but I really felt we were missing Leavys ultra aggression/physicality during the Six Nations. When you're going up against teams who have Itoje/116 kg and Vunipola/126kg in the back row against POM/107kg and VDF/104 makes me wonder do we need to sacrifice one to bring in someone like Ruddock or Conan?

Well we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot without Vdf anyway, the Leinster-Munster game showed the difference that a proper 7 makes (and he didn't play against Wales). I'd agree that picking both him and O'Mahony leaves short in physicality a bit, I'd say the solution to that is bringing in Henderson and Cronin/Scannell to start as opposed to dropping one of the flankers though.

Conan>Stander though every time.

 

[Jockstap]

Well we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot without Vdf anyway, the Leinster-Munster game showed the difference that a proper 7 makes (and he didn't play against Wales). I'd agree that picking both him and O'Mahony leaves short in physicality a bit, I'd say the solution to that is bringing in Henderson and Cronin/Scannell to start as opposed to dropping one of the flankers though.

Conan>Stander though every time.

Ya but Best won't be getting dropped and Schmidt has shown time and again he has no faith in Cronin. I do think we need another carrier in the backrow, shite but we're really going to miss Leavy.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Ya but Best won't be getting dropped and Schmidt has shown time and again he has no faith in Cronin. I do think we need another carrier in the backrow, shite but we're really going to miss Leavy.

I'd like to see two proper ball carriers in the backrow, don't see how it'll work though. I'm far from O'Mahony's biggest fan but we're always worse without him there, and we're going to get stuffed in terms of linespeed and at the breakdown without Van Der Flier.
I'd by open to trying 6. Stander (his best position I think) 7. Van Der Flier 8. Conan but I'm not convinced it'd work. Beirne has all the tools to be a quality backrow but he's never looked as good there, that could be worth a try as well, and Henderson did start out as a 6 so that could be interesting. Ultimately any backrow that isn't at least 7. Van Der Flier 8. Conan is going to be ludicrously poor selection for me.

 

[munstermuffin]

The thing is... and I agree Conan is form 8, Schmidt doesn't trust him there as a starter.
Has as much as said it in past. And again I will say I agree with all here in that he is the better 8 recently, although I'd add an off the field worry may have been effecting CJs mentality more. Schmidt won't trust him. More so now with no SOB and Leavy the backrow selection will be interesting and I can see Penney or Tommy O'Donnell being a shock

 

[Jockstap]

The thing is... and I agree Conan is form 8, Schmidt doesn't trust him there as a starter.
Has as much as said it in past. And again I will say I agree with all here in that he is the better 8 recently, although I'd add an off the field worry may have been effecting CJs mentality more. Schmidt won't trust him. More so now with no SOB and Leavy the backrow selection will be interesting and I can see Penney or Tommy O'Donnell being a shock

Tommy O'Donnell? Schmidt brought Nordi as backup no 8 to Heaslip in the last WC so maybe you're right.

 

[Leinster Fan]

The thing is... and I agree Conan is form 8, Schmidt doesn't trust him there as a starter.
Has as much as said it in past. And again I will say I agree with all here in that he is the better 8 recently, although I'd add an off the field worry may have been effecting CJs mentality more. Schmidt won't trust him. More so now with no SOB and Leavy the backrow selection will be interesting and I can see Penney or Tommy O'Donnell being a shock

It's less a problem with CJ for me and more that Conan has been absolutely tearing it up all season, generally top carrier/tackler other than Ryan, always gets over the gain line and good for one or two breaks most games. Great workrate and much better hands than any other option in the backrow. It's not even a form thing, he's not playing much better than he has been for two of three seasons now. Some of his Ireland performances have been underwhelming (although I can only actually think of Wales in 2018 were he was poor, other than that he's always been decent at worst in green), but he was good when he played in the Six Nations this year.

If we don't give him a proper chance to start in Japan it's ridiculous.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Tommy O'Donnell? Schmidt brought Nordi as backup no 8 to Heaslip in the last WC so maybe you're right.

In fairness Nordi was covering all three positions then as well. He's a better 7 than O'Donnell and plays 6/8 so I'd say he'll probably come this time as well. Penny is probably a bit away from internationals (not more than a few years but a bit of physical development needed, the rest of his game is there) and is currently injured (he's going to miss the U20s WC) so even as a massive fan I'd say it's a long shot. Give him two or three years and he could well be starting though.

O'Donnell won't be near the squad unless we lose another 7(Jordi/Vdf), although in that situation I wouldn't rule out Deegan who'd he able to cover flanker or 8.

Unless we get more injuries we're likely going with Van Der Flier starting and Jordi+POM as cover there.

 

[Jockstap]

The thing is... and I agree Conan is form 8, Schmidt doesn't trust him there as a starter.
Has as much as said it in past. And again I will say I agree with all here in that he is the better 8 recently, although I'd add an off the field worry may have been effecting CJs mentality more. Schmidt won't trust him. More so now with no SOB and Leavy the backrow selection will be interesting and I can see Penney or Tommy O'Donnell being a shock

What's your take on POM's form Muff?

 

[munstermuffin]

It's less a problem with CJ for me and more that Conan has been absolutely tearing it up all season, generally top carrier/tackler other than Ryan, always gets over the gain line and good for one or two breaks most games. Great workrate and much better hands than any other option in the backrow. It's not even a form thing, he's not playing much better than he has been for two of three seasons now. Some of his Ireland performances have been underwhelming (although I can only actually think of Wales in 2018 were he was poor, other than that he's always been decent at worst in green), but he was good when he played in the Six Nations this year.

If we don't give him a proper chance to start in Japan it's ridiculous.

I'm not disagreeing on much. But Schmidt is known to be huge CJ fan and I can almost guarantee that Conan won't be in a 23 for the big games. Not saying I agree but that Schmidt has his way and that won't change.

@Jockstap I think POM has been going well but hard to stand out in a team probably over reliant on forwards and lacking direction in backs. But I'd disagree hugely with some here who say he plays well in 3 or 4 games a year. He's played too much rugby this season probably but looking at his stats and well fact he's highly rated by majority of pundits, coaches and other players on a consistent basis I'd say you don't get that on 2 or 3 games a year.
Equally is it easier too look better in a Leinster side than a Munster side at the moment? Would Conan in a Munster jersey stand out? Would POM or CJ in a Leinster jersey look better?

 

[Jockstap]

I'm not disagreeing on much. But Schmidt is known to be huge CJ fan and I can almost guarantee that Conan won't be in a 23 for the big games. Not saying I agree but that Schmidt has his way and that won't change.

@Jockstap I think POM has been going well but hard to stand out in a team probably over reliant on forwards and lacking direction in backs. But I'd disagree hugely with some here who say he plays well in 3 or 4 games a year. He's played too much rugby this season probably but looking at his stats and well fact he's highly rated by majority of pundits, coaches and other players on a consistent basis I'd say you don't get that on 2 or 3 games a year.
Equally is it easier too look better in a Leinster side than a Munster side at the moment? Would Conan in a Munster jersey stand out? Would POM or CJ in a Leinster jersey look better?

Pretty much my thinking also, has he played more rugby than others, I thought the IRFU manage that? He's consistently one of Ireland's best performers but CJ seems to be out of sorts for a while now.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I'm not disagreeing on much. But Schmidt is known to be huge CJ fan and I can almost guarantee that Conan won't be in a 23 for the big games. Not saying I agree but that Schmidt has his way and that won't change.

@Jockstap I think POM has been going well but hard to stand out in a team probably over reliant on forwards and lacking direction in backs. But I'd disagree hugely with some here who say he plays well in 3 or 4 games a year. He's played too much rugby this season probably but looking at his stats and well fact he's highly rated by majority of pundits, coaches and other players on a consistent basis I'd say you don't get that on 2 or 3 games a year.
Equally is it easier too look better in a Leinster side than a Munster side at the moment? Would Conan in a Munster jersey stand out? Would POM or CJ in a Leinster jersey look better?

I think you're underestimating the extent to which Schmidt rates Conan, he's not his biggest fan but he definitely rates him higher than you think. I'd be disappointed but not surprised if he doesn't start but the only alternatives for the bench are Murphy and Ruddock, he was picked ahead of them in the Six Nations and he can only have strengthened his chances since then. And to be fair to Joe he has shown a willingness to drop even his favourites when other players' form is clearly better, Kilcoyne for McGrath is a good example.

I'd agree with you about POM, he hasn't been at his best but there are fair reasons about that, same with CJ. I do think they've both been overplayed by Munster and that's led to them not being at their best come the end of the season when they're most needed. That said they were comprehensively outplayed by their Leinster counterparts last week and the same backrow were much better than their opposite numbers at Glasgow as well yesterday. The reality is that 6.Ruddock/Leavy 7.Van Der Flier 8.Conan has been functioning much better as a unit than anything Munster or Ireland have been putting out this season. Now I'm not saying that they should stroll into the team straight off but POM and Stander shouldn't be walking into the starting team at the world cup and if they do it's going to be ridiculously poor selection and I don't see how anyone could deny that.

I wouldn't agree with the 'easier to look good when you play for Leinster' thing though at all, you could apply that to any Leinster player or Munster player. And Leinster have been very inconsistent this year but Conan's performance levels never really dipped. Like for example the Ulster quarterfinal was a poor team performance by anyone's measure but Conan really stepped up and dragged us through that game to an extent. And again against Saracens even when we were struggling in the second half he was still there making a real difference. I've saw the same line trotted out about James Ryan and Garry Ringrose when they were breaking through as well, I don't think it's a valid point especially when Leinster haven't been that good at all this season.

 

[munstermuffin]

But I'm not saying Conan hasn't been consjust facts are it's easier look better in Leinster at moment to Munster. I fully agree Conan has been in top form. I also think CJ has real legitimate off field issues that have distracted him a bit. Equally though Conan has been better and if Schmidt does go on form then he will have a great chance but I can't see it. Conan was going great in February too and was not really rated hugely.