• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Is Six Nations Expanding to Seven?

ncurd

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
8,519
Reaction score
2,201
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

Also since the introduction of BP's Italy have scored 1....
 

TheOvalBall

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
2,024
Reaction score
250
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

France

South Africa in the Six Nations is not a great idea, but it makes sense from a money and time zone standpoint. Japan need to join the Rugby Championship, and Argentina need to join the Americas.

Samoa, Tonga and Fiji need to join the Rugby Championship as well.
 

Old Hooker

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
3,419
Reaction score
1,154
Country Flag

England

While all sane fans don’t want it and it’s unlikely, we can’t be complacent as things are changing.

I don’t care about the Pro 14, but I thought it was ridiculous to have the Saffer teams in it. Nonetheless they’re there and the precedent has been set. A reccie mission or an advance party if you like.

If CVC do get involved they won’t have a controlling stake, but they will be a big voice at the table. If they think it’s a flier, make no mistake the pressure will be right on. Look at how F1 moved away from its traditional heartlands during their involvement .....ignore warnings from history at your peril.
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,481
Reaction score
1,261
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

If it's "just" a media gimmick - why does it come up EVERY time the SANZAR TV rights are up for negotiation?

Not the same media outlets though...

Also, the TV rights are up for grabs in other places, not South Africa, there is way another media outlet will be able to outmuscle Supersport in South Africa, I mean, they outmuscled the public broadcaster in every facet you can think of.

If we take South Africa as an individual team, then this most recent report had nothing to do with the broadcasting rights.
 

Jimcardiff

Academy Player
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
if I have it correct the 6 Nations are all equal partners and any change needs to be unanimous , so will Italy vote for the change as it might lead th them being removed from the championship, turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind.
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,308
Reaction score
531
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

im sure that is exactly what they are doing, but they need to be careful, there is a lot of grumbles in Aus/NZ about travelling to RSA and all the demands they've made in the past re extra teams etc, if RSA push too hard NZ/Aus might just decide if they going to get less money they may as well cut ties
My understanding was the tv money for super rugby and the rugby championship comes largely from South Africa, so they are effectively subsidising the other nations. Therefore New Zealand and Australia would find it difficult to go it alone.

while South African fans may say they’d rather be in the rugby championship, reality is they’d get more tv viewership in competitions with the same time zone. It’s less travel for them too.
 

Jabby

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,247
Reaction score
781
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Otago

My understanding was the tv money for super rugby and the rugby championship comes largely from South Africa, so they are effectively subsidising the other nations. Therefore New Zealand and Australia would find it difficult to go it alone.

while South African fans may say they’d rather be in the rugby championship, reality is they’d get more tv viewership in competitions with the same time zone. It’s less travel for them too.
There had to be a limit though, when what nz and aus are getting is outweighed by the player fatigue etc
 

scotty507

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
2,481
Reaction score
544
Club or Nation

Exeter

if I have it correct the 6 Nations are all equal partners and any change needs to be unanimous , so will Italy vote for the change as it might lead th them being removed from the championship, turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind.
I agree i really do but i am curious what do italy thik they get out of losing every single 6N game convincingly? Years of playing tier 1 teams, 2 teams in the pro 14(same as scotland) and zero improvment really. If they went down to the tier 2 europe comp where they are winning and competing vs Georgia they might gain more from that or least enjoy winning. Not saying i agree with kicking them out but what do they get from staying in?

Also it does show that tier 2 playing tier 1 does not improve teams unless they have systems all the way down to grassroots.
 

bushytop

First XV
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
4,099
Reaction score
1,652
Country Flag

Wales

Club or Nation

London Welsh

... but why would South Africa give up their annual home and away ‘Greatest Rivalry in Rugby’ *tm? :p
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,481
Reaction score
1,261
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

... but why would South Africa give up their annual home and away ‘Greatest Rivalry in Rugby’ *tm? :p

It doesn't necessarily mean they would though. The possibility is there that SA may play both RC and 6 Nations as they don't feature the same time of the year. The other possibility is there that SA can still have tests against NZ on a yearly basis, but that it's not connected to a tournament. Maybe call it the Mandela Cup and have a home and away game to decide who wins it...
 

TheOvalBall

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
2,024
Reaction score
250
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

France

My understanding was the tv money for super rugby and the rugby championship comes largely from South Africa, so they are effectively subsidising the other nations. Therefore New Zealand and Australia would find it difficult to go it alone.

while South African fans may say they’d rather be in the rugby championship, reality is they’d get more tv viewership in competitions with the same time zone. It’s less travel for them too.

The travel and time zone factor has always been a huge problem.
 

Jimcardiff

Academy Player
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
I agree i really do but i am curious what do italy thik they get out of losing every single 6N game convincingly? Years of playing tier 1 teams, 2 teams in the pro 14(same as scotland) and zero improvment really. If they went down to the tier 2 europe comp where they are winning and competing vs Georgia they might gain more from that or least enjoy winning. Not saying i agree with kicking them out but what do they get from staying in?

Also it does show that tier 2 playing tier 1 does not improve teams unless they have systems all the way down to grassroots.
they get the ability to finance pro rugby in Italy ,the same as the other countries in the tournament ,
 

Jimcardiff

Academy Player
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Sadly it is Italy have been part of it for 20 years and have only 11 W's, have not won a game since 2015, have never beaten England and I see no reason why that would change anytime soon. The only thing they provide is no rest weeks.

Scotland on the other hand have 28 W's and by comparison are second least successful 6N side and winless streaks only ever lasted 1 year.

If Italy were pulling some kind of weight the conversation would be diffrent.
if you think that the function of the 6 N is for Italy to win game , perhaps it is not working , But the function of the 6 N is to finance the game in the NH , just think of the consequences of screwing that up .
 

ncurd

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
8,519
Reaction score
2,201
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

if you think that the function of the 6 N is for Italy to win game , perhaps it is not working , But the function of the 6 N is to finance the game in the NH , just think of the consequences of screwing that up .
Again what Italy actually bring to the table? Are the additional 5 games for their inclusion generating any revenue of note for the other 5 nations?

With the lack progress and even regression of Italy in relative terms is the money even helping Italy?


I'm not going to advocate SA joining the 6 Nations I concur its a stupid idea on logistical, devaluing the RWC and traditional grounds. But adding them and removing Italy on both a financial and competitive nature there's no argument the other 5 nations would not benefit from.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,001,326
Reaction score
6,486
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Italy do seem to be producing more talented players than they used to - as a team/squad, though, they don't seem to be making any improvement at all.
 

ncurd

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
8,519
Reaction score
2,201
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

Italy do seem to be producing more talented players than they used to - as a team/squad, though, they don't seem to be making any improvement at all.
there regressing in fact you can argue they as a team are worse than when first joined...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_national_rugby_union_team#Six_Nations

The table makes grim reading, they struggled at first but 2006-13 they showed real improvement with 2 4th place finishes (2009 being a bit shite).

They took a massive step backwards in 2014 with '16 and '17 yielding their two worst results since joining. '18 saw them back to joining tournament results and '19 was a lot better but '20 already has them at -55 with three games to go with England on the last day in Rome....so prospects are already looking shite.
 

Jimcardiff

Academy Player
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Again what Italy actually bring to the table? Are the additional 5 games for their inclusion generating any revenue of note for the other 5 nations?

With the lack progress and even regression of Italy in relative terms is the money even helping Italy?


I'm not going to advocate SA joining the 6 Nations I concur its a stupid idea on logistical, devaluing the RWC and traditional grounds. But adding them and removing Italy on both a financial and competitive nature there's no argument the other 5 nations would not benefit from.
they bring another me in Europe ,and a lovely place to go for a rugby trip, I like Italy in the 6N , they would have to vote themselves out of it as decisions like that have to be unanimous ,, kick Italy out now could see the end of rugby there,
How long was it before France started winning the 5N as it was ?
 

Johnny Storm

Academy Player
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
117
Reaction score
23
Country Flag

South Africa

"Is six Nations expanding to seven?"
We won't be going back to an odd numbered competition.

Why not? what's wrong with an odd number of competitors?
At least it would mean an even number of games - six instead of the current five matches.
 

Which Tyler

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
4,948
Reaction score
1,731
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

Why not? what's wrong with an odd number of competitors?
At least it would mean an even number of games - six instead of the current five matches.
Because an odd number of competitors means one team is being rested each week; which works out unfair to someone every year. Whilst having an odd number of games makes no real difference, and the only "unfairness" comes as a result of which matches are home versus away, but otherwise makes no difference whatsoever.
 
Top