Kelleher: S14 is poor, NH better

[Prestwick]

They think they should introduce live sex to Super 14 rugby to spice it up a bit.

 

[BLR]

They think they should introduce live sex to Super 14 rugby to spice it up a bit.
[/b]

Nah, we save that for our half time shows.

 

[Prestwick]

Well, I was thinking, as Saracens are now confirmed as the 4th best team in Europe (for the evening that is, that was before we were told that we'd be mixing it up with giants like Gran Parma in the European Challenge cup next year) and as its a foregone conclusion that the 1990s cartoon soccer side, the Hurricanes, will capture fourth place from those holders of chicken drumsticks, the Chiefs...who would win...?

I'm torn, a Saracens and 'caines fan...so sad that I would not be able to smack talk, only say teary eyed that Rugby would win!

 

[eoinod]

Think the S14 is was better. A lot more exciting better running rugby. Those experimental rule changes have made a difference!

 

[stevemagoo]

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3...3499057,00.html

Interesting article on the ELVs to look at.

I don't watch any S14, so can't comment..

 

[Steve-o]

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3...3499057,00.html

Interesting article on the ELVs to look at.

I don't watch any S14, so can't comment.. [/b]

I knew this guy didn't know what he's talking about when he said:

This infantilisation of our grand old sport is already in full swing: the ELVs are barely out of their infancy and already they have transformed the Super 14 into a miasma devoid of wit or intelligence. It's McRugby and it's just perfect for the mass market.

All the teams share the same gameplan: run, bash, run, bash, run, bash, run, bash.


[/b]

He doesn't mention that there as more scrums or anything like that. What about the alleged kicking fest we're having?



If he'd put down stats like the average rucks, average runnings meters gained and average runs with ball in hand from last years S14 and this years S14 then he'd have a good argument.

He's targeting a negative and un-imformed public



Oh and I just love the whole money rant, denying is money huge motive in rugby nowdays is denying professionalism. Has he cared to look at all the SH players in the NH currently?



What a joke

 

[mark_shaw]

i just wanna say that coming from playing rugby compettively in nz. and played a higher level in england. i found that even playn a lower level in new zealand was harder, more phycially demanding and better skill. thanks for reading.

 

[C A Iversen]

I've had mates who are only average go to England for their OE and end up captaining teams and having the odd hat-trick of tries. I'm not kidding either, one of them was having a real battle with me for starts in certain back-line positions and I didn't believe how it was over there till he showed me his girlfriends video camera footage. I was laughing.

I'm sure it's not all like that, but what an eye-opener. I'd honestly contribute to a fund which brought Prestwick to NZ to play in one of our club sides. A lower division local club, not talking anything major. Even just a similar grade to what he's ever played in England, he could bring Teh Mite.

They could go home after a season and steam-roll their mates.

 

[Dmx#1]

Do the english even know what a try is????

 

[Steve-o]

I played a touring English highschool side back in 2005, can't for the life of me remember where in England they came from (something -shire, i guess). We ran out winners, something like 58 - 6, spoke to a few of the chaps afterwards and turns out we were suppose to be their 'warm up' game before they tour. Their coach chose us because we had about 300 people in our highschool, while they had about 300 people per grade! I wonder how the rest of the tour was lol. Pity for them we had possibly the best natural rugby players I've ever played with, playing 8th man and lil 'ol me as open side flanker

 

[candybum]

Coming from South Auckland (in nz) and being a non pacific islander... playing down these ways definitely toughens you up!! lol c'mon 160kg prop running at me (70kgs) and making a successful tackle? Balls man balls haha

Which is why im not scared of the westies easties centralies and northees lol

 

[Gay-Guy]

Well the lower grades in small club teams in NZ have players who know the basics of passing and tackling as a given before they even join up. I suppose it is a bit like how everyone in England can juggle a soccer ball at least 4 times.

 

[Prestwick]

I played a touring English highschool side back in 2005, can't for the life of me remember where in England they came from (something -shire, i guess). We ran out winners, something like 58 - 6, spoke to a few of the chaps afterwards and turns out we were suppose to be their 'warm up' game before they tour. [/b]

Okay just a question here.

Was this "high school" a Grammar School, a Public School (i.e. Private, fee charging school like Eton or Harrow for example) or a basic, state funded comprehensive school?

If so, that would give us a better clue as to the standard of rugby because the School systems of the UK are incredibly complex and a basic "high school" just doesn't exist.

Anyway, allow me to fill you in. The best school teams come from the Public Schools. They hire ex-army or Royal Marine Commando guys to be the PE or PT teachers and thus the coaches. Those schools spend their weekends (remember, these are mostly boarding schools) running up hills with bags of rocks on their backs, doing intense cardio work and generally beating the team into a high level of fitness upon which they then go hard into rugby training. These guys are usually where the future England stars come from traditionally.

The competetiveness goes usually beyond hiring ex-millitary to do the training. Theres lots of psychological elements. For example, they'll introduce visiting teams to the "field" they'll be playing on. Here, the team have purposely spead broken glass, shrredded coke cans and other sharp and nasty stuff across the field. Obviously, they move to the real pitch (free of anything sharp) but its that first impression which scares the crap out of the visiting team.

Despite this however, unless you're coming from an area of the UK traditionally strong in Rugby like the South West or the North West of England, then you have a process of teaching 8 - 18 year olds how to suck eggs essentially. This means allot of time is lost while they teach those not clued up on the basics. You just don't get that with football or even Cricket.

The second tier are the Grammar Schools. Less intense but they still train seriously and can field at least two teams. Pretty reasonable and actually raising the standard of rugby.

The third, final and lowest tier are the Comprehensives. These are the schools who barely manage to get an XV together, let alone more. Training is done by PE Teachers without much clue as to rugby and usually rely on partnerships with the local GP club (Saracens for example have coaching programs with many Schools in Herts & Essex to actually teach the PE teachers actually how to coach Rugby to the pupils). Also, at Comprehensive level, rugby has to compete with football. During the winter, you can't play on the fields during lunchtime so you play football in the playground. During the Summer, you play football on the fields. The only time when these guys get to even touch a rugby ball is during the winter during PE or if they go and join a local rugby club.

By your description therefore Steve, I'd say you faced either a poor Grammar School team or a Comprehensive team. Most likely the latter.

I'm not saying that your team didn't deserve to win, just wanted to know what kind of school they came from so we can gauge properly what kind of opposition you were facing back in 2005.

 

[Steve-o]

Grammar school! That's it, I think.. They brought a hockey team with if that helps anything. I really can't tell you if they were from the north, south, west or east (i can understand the significance of that) but their accents weren't strong. They sounded a bit like that dude on top gear extra (the main host).

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah, the hockey team is the big givaway. Seriously, the only teams you'll see from Comprehensive Schools are soccer teams and maybe a strong-ish athletics team. Its only the public and grammar schools that give a toss about Rugby & Cricket.

It is so frustrating because the Public & Grammar schools do try, they try their arses off but usually they're hamstrung but idiot government legislation and frankly idiot government attempts to cripple them or shut them down altogether, which hinders the development of the next generation of Rugby Stars.

 

[errlloyd]

Same thing in Ireland, I went to a school that was not competitive in rugby, for those of you who live in Ireland it was the other side of booterstown avenue from blackrock (braces for abuse). It was second tier (in fact played in the 2nd of 3 divisions divided exactly as you say), and yet we had an imported south African coach, a rugby team only weights gym and a shed load of shocking results.

Strangely enough we have the best hockey teams in Ireland, and two amazing Astro Pitches (something must universities only got recently). With an average year size of 150 split 75 female and 75 male, if 25 don't play sport, 25 play hockey then only 25 can play rugby, and yet it was a large part of our budget.

Across the road was/is Blackrock (Brian O Driscoll went there and Luke Fitzgerald practically only just left) and they would historically be one of the best, obviously we would always get hammered by them, but then up the road was Collaiste Eoin, which was a Gael Scoil and so it only played Hurling and Gaelic football. Out of town a bit you got Newpark which was Public (by which I mean Comprehensive, in Ireland thats public) they had a bit of everything, 3rd tier rugby team, but it was a well respected public, further out the public schools rarely have rugby teams.

Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.

 

[Steve-o]

I blame politics aye.
Thanks for the explanations Prestwick

 

[BLR]

Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.[/b]

We beat the All Blacks in Australia and Rugby Union is far behind AFL, League, Cricket and now League....some commentators even think that Union is in its death throes in Australia, so that ain't an excuse for having rubbish sporting stocks.

 

[mark_shaw]

im over this debate. where better then u down here at rugby. your better then us up there at football.

case closed

 

[C A Iversen]

That verdict sits very comfortably with me, lol.