Kurtley Beale in Trouble

[squirrel]

Good news for rugger fans to see a talent like Beale still around, an independent group have seen the evidence and think punishment is served hooorrraaayyy

 

[dasNdanger]

full statement:

http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsAr...ED-45-000-FOR-ARU-CODE-OF-CONDUCT-BREACH.aspx



Really disagree Das, he was in the professional environment, they basically said he's been suspended already so they won't suspend him again... it's a terrible outcome for the ARU and the sport.

Here's how I see it...

1. There was no proof Beale was involved in a second, more offensive exchange. Without that proof we must assume he's innocent of that part of the accusation. That changes things a bit imho.

2. He apologized to Di for the first picture. He shouldn't have sent it, it was wrong and offensive, but the matter was put to rest at that time and (seemingly) life went back to normal. He had to answer for it at this tribunal and again appears to be apologetic and not belligerent about the situation. So it was the first, proven, offense for which he was rightfully fined.

3. I find it significant that the fight on the plane hasn't been brought up (as far as I can tell) in the decision of this tribunal, which suggests to me that there's either more to it than we'll ever know, or it was just a petty thing that has no bearing on any official misconduct. Had Beale been totally at fault for that flight fight then I would think it would have had some impact on their decision.

That's just how I feel about the basic facts in this case as they have been presented by the media. Beale made a rude joke about a staff member and was punished for it. Also, I don't see it as harassment since it appears to be a one-time thing and not an on-going situation of sexual intimidation (or facts to prove such would have been brought forth to the tribunal). The blow-up on the plane still hasn't been explained to MY satisfaction, but it appears (at this point) to fail to fall under any misconduct codes. So, again, a fine for an offensive picture and rude joke seem appropriate. That's how I feel based solely on the facts that have been presented to us, the public. (By contrast, several players in the NFL have been suspended for alleged criminal offenses, such as domestic violence and child abuse - such suspensions seem appropriate and are far more serious than a one-off offensive joke.)

Now, how do I feel about the situation as a whole - the state of rugby in Australia, etc.? Well...I think this was a brilliant move on the part of the ARU.

Here's why...

Australian rugby has already been disgraced by this whole situation. There seems to be a general consensus that the administration, and not the players, are at fault. Is this true? I really have no idea, but that's how it appears to the public. And that's what really matters, isn't it?

Now, a second point. There has been a huge shake-up in the team. The coach has resigned. That can be unsettling to the players. There has been this controversy, another staffer also quitting, and lots of head-shaking and finger-pointing. All of this can demoralize a team. And despite coaching and whatnot, it's still the players who win or lose the game. Many of those players stood behind Beale. In fact, it was a perfect opportunity for any players who thought Beale was a Royal Arsehole to speak out, but to a man it appears they supported him as a valued player on the team. That's important. Why?

Well, because with the 'witch hunt' going on, it may have created a very negative atmosphere within the team to give Beale the boot at this time. Keeping him could be a positive, stabilizing effect on the team in the short term. Whether or not Beale stays in Australia in the future can be decided later, but right now - with games to play - the ARU really needed to stabilize the team, and move on.

And finally, sacking Beale would have done nothing for the fans. In fact, it may have turned many away. However, keeping Beale is quite brilliant. People watch rugby, not for the coaches and staff, but for the players. And I'll bet you anything that more people will be watching the next Aussie game than have done so in recent months. They want to see Beale in action, and see whether he lives up to the decision to keep him in the game, or not. Many will be elated to see him succeed, and I'm guessing just as many will feel self-satisfied to see him fail.

The questions will always be whether or not it was the moral thing to do. Were Di and Ewen just fall guys used to protect spoiled players? Did Ewen, with his on-field halftime breaks and such, really create a negative atmosphere in the locker room? Was Di really as meddlesome as some have asserted? Was Beale and his conduct the problem, or just a symptom of a bigger problem? Does Beale deserve a second/third chance, or should he be given the boot out of Australian rugby for good? I'm pretty sure it all boils down to this: If Australia starts winning big games people will soon forgive and forget this whole thing, but if things start going south then this whole mess will continue to be debated until the ends of time, or until Australia wins the World Cup - whichever comes first.


das

 

[j'nuh]

A manager hounded out of her job because she's a woman.
The head coach hounded out of his job because of unsubstantiated rumour and because "he has no control over the discipline of the squad".
Yet the very player at the heart of the indiscipline is fined and welcomed back with open arms.
And Cheika supports Beale. Chieka's first act as head coach of Australia is to provide support to the player that caused everything to go ***s up under the last management. Does that instil confidence in anyone that he will be challenging the lad culture that is holding Australian rugby back? The only reason Lancaster had such a positive effect on England is his willingness to drop anyone who acted like a prick.

Australia are now my most disliked team.

 

[Tony Manx]

See, I do not think that the team would stand by a tool against a manager unless that manager was either not respected or was respected and had lost their respect. Moyes lost his job at Old Trafford as he did not carry the respect of his players and eventually, having no doubt tried in his own way to gain it, he was fired.

What I am saying is that if the manager had gained their respect initially then at some point he lost it OR he was never respected by the players and was the wrong choice at the outset!

Hundreds of ways to lose respect such as not carrying the players with his proposed tactics or training methods, favouring some players over others, not properly understanding the opposition etc etc etc . If he never had it, it would be a very, very hard job to gain it......

So the players support of Beale was the result of the manager having already lost the dressing room rather than the cause of it...................that would be my take but who knows............!!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

What a surprise

 

[TRF_heineken]

Australia are now my most disliked team.

Only now??

and just in Rugby???

 

[goodNumber10]

There is an interesting article on the NZ Herald (can't link sorry).

Saying EM talked to Cheika and Beale about everything last June, that Cheika wrote a letter defending Beales account and that Patston withheld text messages that corroborate Beales account.

Also that Pullver offered to settle out of court and then took Beale to the tribunal anyway....

Still doesn't mean Beale is in the wrong but it seems to have been handled by a bunch of idiots.

 

[Draggs]

ARU getting management tips from the WRU by the sounds of it. If they want to scrap Pulver, I will throw in a good word if it helps Rog get the job.

 

[smartcooky]

Player Power is big in the Land of the Bouncing Rat.

The Brumbies players got rid of David Nucifora in 2004, the same year that he coached them to a Super 12 ***le, because they wanted Laurie Fisher to be their coach. He promptly turned them from champs in to chumps as in 2005 (5th), 2006 (6th), 2007 (5th) and 2008 (13th) they failed to make the play-offs.

Yeah, good move you Brumbies players; officer thinking that!

Beale is a nob. I wouldn't have him anywhere near a team I was coaching; the talent he has does not compensate for his inflated ego and the trouble he brings. Its only a matter of time before he starts trouble again. He's James O'Connor without the hairstyle.

 

[dasNdanger]

A manager hounded out of her job because she's a woman.

I respectfully disagree with this. From what I've read (the accuracy of which can be debated, I'm sure), I think Di was hounded out of her job because she didn't have the respect of the team, not because she's a woman but because she wasn't qualified for the role and (reportedly) tried to play 'psychoanalyst' with the men. Have you ever been around such a person? I have, and he was a guy, not a woman. So IF she was like that I can understand that her presence may not have been welcomed among the team, not because she was a woman, but because she may have been perceived as prying and meddlesome. (Again, all based on articles I've read and not on any proven facts, per se. Also, there are many women who work in male-dominated fields and do so effectively and with the respect of the men around them.)

The head coach hounded out of his job because of unsubstantiated rumour and because "he has no control over the discipline of the squad".

While the ARU spoke out in support of Ewen, I have yet to hear any great support for him from the players. It may be out there, but I haven't seen it yet.

Yet the very player at the heart of the indiscipline is fined and welcomed back with open arms.

I've seen far worse when it comes to personal attacks right here on the internet, on forums such as this, by people like you and me. Still I think what Beale did was immature and rude and disgraceful (actually embarrassing that a supposedly mature adult would do such a thing) but it's no worse than the average internet insult. The only thing that makes it worse is that it was directed at his superior (management-wise), and therefore it does get my vote for professional misconduct. I'm not saying Beale is perfect or some misunderstood saint, but I do think there are two sides to this story and I have yet to hear anyone on the inside come to Di's defense except for Ewen, and his comments seem to confirm the possibility that she played amateur psychologist with the team. He said (from an article I linked in an earlier post):

Earlier on Friday, McKenzie said that he had employed Patston on the "qualifications they [people] have got and present, simple as that". He said that she had worked for the Queensland Government for 13 years in an auditing capacity and since that time she came and worked for the Reds and she did other things obviously prior to that. Patston is listed as officially joining the Reds in 2012.


"She has a very strong background, very strongly qualified in lots of areas around psychology and human behaviour," he said. "So she is more than qualified to do the job. I can assure you. There is actually no qualifications to do the job. There is nothing that said this is what the qualifications are but she is more than qualified but she did an outstanding job there and here."


McKenzie also highlighted Patston's expertise in human resources, but the ARU has since been eager to emphasise she did not work in an official capacity in its HR department. The ARU declined to comment when asked to clarify Patston's official duties, or whether they were comfortable with its due diligence before her employment.

So, she was qualified to do a job that had no qualifications. That's a bunch of f-ed up double talk. And the fact that she has a 'strong background...in lots of areas around psychology and human behaviour' supports the claims that she was playing head-shrink with the players. Still, without firsthand knowledge it's all guesswork and supposition, but unless someone strongly comes out in her support it sounds to me as if the players, and the ARU itself, have said good riddance to a disruptive influence in the team.


das

 

[smartcooky]

Beale is a nob. I wouldn't have him anywhere near a team I was coaching; the talent he has does not compensate for his inflated ego and the trouble he brings. Its only a matter of time before he starts trouble again.

...and here is why I think that

[TEXTAREA]January 2007
Fined $1500 and banned from holding a licence for nine months for drink-driving while unlicensed.

July 2010
Fined $5000 by the ARU for urinating outside a nightclub in Brisbane

November 2010
Involved in altercation with Wallabies teammates Quade Cooper and James O’Connor in Paris. Reports of the alleged scuffle emerged nine months after the event. All three players attempted to play down its significance, although Beale hinted that tempers had flared between the trio.

June 2012
Accused of assaulting a bouncer at a Brisbane hotel. It was alleged Beale struck one of the security staff after he and teammate Quade Cooper tried to re-enter the Victory Hotel after being ejected on the morning before the Wallabies’ Test win over Wales at Suncorp Stadium, which he was absent from through injury. An assault charge was dismissed after it was settled during out-of-court mediation.

March 2013
Fined $40,000 and suspended indefinitely following a punch-up with Melbourne Rebels teammates Cooper Vuna and Gareth Delve. Beale and Vuna were sent home from South Africa on separate flights following the incident on the Rebels team bus following a heavy loss to the Sharks in Durban.

May 2013
Suspended for a second time in seven weeks by the Melbourne Rebels for breaching an alcohol ban. Admitting to drinking the weekend after his return to the Melbourne side, Beale was stood down for “breaching behavioural guidelinesâ€.

June 2013
Beale is photographed by a fan with Wallabies teammate James O’Connor at a Melbourne fast food outlet at 3.50am just days out from the second Test against the British and Irish Lions. Beale and O’Connor attended the midweek clash between the Rebels and the Lions at AAMI Stadium and later joined players from both teams at an after-party in the city. After conducting a thorough investigation Wallabies management were satisfied neither player was drinking, and were merely in attendance at the party to support their Rebels teammates.

The following week the pair missed the team bus for training after sleeping in and had to catch a taxi.

October 2014
The ARU confirms its integrity unit is investigating an alleged episode of verbal abuse by Beale towards a member of the Wallabies management staff on the team’s flight from Johannesburg to Brazil. Wallabies coach Ewen McKenzie also confirms that he missed the team’s training session on Tuesday to deal with the controversy[/TEXTAREA]

Can anyone imagine Stuart Lancaster, or Steve Hansen or Graham Henry or any of the Springbok coaches putting up with a pattern of behaviour like this? If he was an All Black he probably would have been goneburger after the November 2010 incident!

 

[j'nuh]

I respectfully disagree with this. From what I've read (the accuracy of which can be debated, I'm sure), I think Di was hounded out of her job because she didn't have the respect of the team, not because she's a woman but because she wasn't qualified for the role and (reportedly) tried to play 'psychoanalyst' with the men. Have you ever been around such a person? I have, and he was a guy, not a woman. So IF she was like that I can understand that her presence may not have been welcomed among the team, not because she was a woman, but because she may have been perceived as prying and meddlesome. (Again, all based on articles I've read and not on any proven facts, per se. Also, there are many women who work in male-dominated fields and do so effectively and with the respect of the men around them.)

As a manager, discipline was linked to her job. My guess is that guys like Beale don't like being told what to do by a woman. He had such little respect that he wrote sexist comments towards her colleagues, undermining her. How is that her problem, that he doesn't respect her? If I did the same to a female colleague at work, I, along with any other troublemaker, would be thrown out, and the woman would be given support to establish the respect of her team.

I've seen far worse when it comes to personal attacks right here on the internet, on forums such as this, by people like you and me. Still I think what Beale did was immature and rude and disgraceful (actually embarrassing that a supposedly mature adult would do such a thing) but it's no worse than the average internet insult. The only thing that makes it worse is that it was directed at his superior (management-wise), and therefore it does get my vote for professional misconduct. I'm not saying Beale is perfect or some misunderstood saint, but I do think there are two sides to this story and I have yet to hear anyone on the inside come to Di's defense except for Ewen, and his comments seem to confirm the possibility that she played amateur psychologist with the team. He said (from an article I linked in an earlier post):

http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/r...090541783?nk=c2187133a9639628e7d434bbb0a64eab

So, she was qualified to do a job that had no qualifications. That's a bunch of f-ed up double talk. And the fact that she has a 'strong background...in lots of areas around psychology and human behaviour' supports the claims that she was playing head-shrink with the players. Still, without firsthand knowledge it's all guesswork and supposition, but unless someone strongly comes out in her support it sounds to me as if the players, and the ARU itself, have said good riddance to a disruptive influence in the team.

A pattern repeated throughout sport, particularly in rugby, is ex-players taking on head coaching roles with little-to-no prior coaching experience. Clubs/nations seem to like their qualities as players, and appoint them on that basis i.e. based not on experience and credentials, but on personality. I have never seen any of these appointments come in with anywhere near the same kind of scrutiny as Di Patston received in a much lower supporting role. Even when Martin Johnson took on the top job at England with no credentials whatsoever, whilst this was brought up, there wasn't a massive deal made out of it. He certainly wasn't hounded out of the job.

 

[rusty_lock]

As has been documented, Beale is a cancer and the fact that his teammates are unwilling to throw him under the bus is evidence that these players have no interest in being coached or managed by anyone. Robbie Deans, a great coach, couldn't manage them. Mackenzie had actually done a good job with them but still they had no interest or respect. Cheika will just be an empty suit that let the players do whatever they want or he will be gone too. There is no accountability from the leadership of the team. They have talent but no character. The great God of heaven could robe himself in flesh again and he couldn't control this bunch.

Prediction RWC 2015 QF loss and Cheika is fired next

 

[RoosTah]

To be honest I'm just glad this ridiculous storm in a tea cup is over... I won't go over it all again, as I think dasNdanger has summed up the reality of the situation perfectly, but I will say that people do need to get off their high horses on this one and accept it's not a simple case of "Beale's a c##t and it's all sexism". Was there sexism? Sure, but that doesn't mean that Patston's character should be beyond rebuke. This is afterall an individual who tried to sue the Qld local government for hundreds of thousands of dollars for emotional stress because she suffered a spider bite at work.

Now, I know that's got nothing to do with this case in particular, but it is relevant when trying to form a picture of her character, and frankly along with the strange circumstances around her "qualifications" and experience - which das is right in saying were put oddly and incorrectly for a job that apparently requires none - do suggest her character was at least questionable.

Ironically, if she'd have been a bloke and something like this had happened all this stuff about background wouldn't be dismissed as mere "sexism", but a rightful investigation of the other party involved.

At the end of the day though, as a massive NRL fan I just think the fall-out from this mostly reflects on the huge gap in management skills between Union and League in this country. This whole affair was rank amateur hour bulls##t from the Wallabies management - Patston, Link and Doyle - and just terrible oversight and brand management from the ARU. To me THAT's the story of this whole affair; that a couple mean texts and an argument over T-Shirts on a pre-dawn flight to a country where no-one has heard of Rugby was managed in a way that was so incompetent, so lacking in transparency and urgency, that it was allowed not just to drag on for months, but to cost effectively the entire Wallabies coaching set-up their jobs.

Now, I was a big fan of Link, but this is very much on him and Pulver, and it the entire thing has been profoundly disappointing.

 

[dasNdanger]

@j'nuh -Thanks for the link and your view of matters. I am in a bit of a rush but wanted to acknowledge your response. I still have many questions about this whole affair that will probably never get answered as the whole matter seems to be at an end now. Mostly I'd like to know if the picture/text that Beale sent was out of dissatisfaction with the management, or just a stupid, immature joke (something maybe only he really knows for sure).

Also, I really wish I knew what happened on that plane. Since that argument seems to be what lead to Di's resignation and her being 'heavily medicated', I would think it would've had a big bearing on Beale's hearing, but that whole incident seems to have been swept under the rug. I still think the plane argument is at the heart of the issues, and that the incident in June is a smoke screen. I might be wrong, but I can't see Di resigning because of a simple argument over attire and not resigning over a lewd joke at her expense. I think there is so much more to this entire situation than we'll ever know.



das

 

[RoosTah]

I must say, in support of my above post an article has emerged that seriously undermines the claims of Bill Pulver and McKenzie that Patston was above board and her version of events was accurate:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...australian-rugby/story-fnp0m104-1227101595086

Indeed, it now looks very much like she was simply a very dishonest person who started throwing her weight around too much in the camp.

 

[goodNumber10]

Beales been dropped from the touring squad:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/29769524

 

[Peat]

Wasn't Cheika meant to be awful keen to add him? I smell a rat here.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think probably he realises it's a sh*t storm too close to home - he needs to re-establish some rules within the playing group, and his own authority.

I reckon that it's a good call.

 

[Peat]

And he only just realised it was a storm of raw, uncontrollable diarrhoea? That's a bit of a leap if you ask me.

I'm suspicious of who's actually calling the shots here.