Lack of atmosphere/rivalry in Rugby a problem?

[SimonG]

I was just responding to a post by Sanzar ("Soccer violence" in the all sports section) and got me thinking..why is the atmosphere in Rugby lacking? The atmosphere in football is better in Australia, South Africa, and as we know here..England. 95,000 Aussie Liverpool fans singing Youll Never Walk Alone...you just dont get that in other sports...why? I immediately googled and low and behold this came up

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ould-rock-through-atmosphere-not-alcohol.html

What can Rugby do to make the atmosphere better?...or is it just simply that the game is seen as an outing for middle class folk (I'm talking England here) to meet up and politely cheer on their team? Surely if the fans became more intense that would make the game more interesting (think Froch vs Groves in the boxing). I believe Rugby loses out by not having intense rivalry.

 

[McTallshort]

How many games have you actually watched? Live I mean

 

[SimonG]

The atmosphere in Ravenhill is pretty good so I'm not referring to Ireland, but my one and only experience at Twickenham matches that described in the article.

What is well known though is the well mannered aspect of Rugby fans ...and it's that really that I believe is one of the problems. The lack of a healthy intense rivalry doesn't exist. The tribalism, it isn't there. When is the last time you saw an advert on BBC, SKy, BT sport etc build up a forthcoming game? They don't because there isn't the rivalry there to build up.

 

[big ginger 8]

I was just responding to a post by Sanzar ("Soccer violence" in the all sports section) and got me thinking..why is the atmosphere in Rugby lacking? The atmosphere in football is better in Australia, South Africa, and as we know here..England. 95,000 Aussie Liverpool fans singing Youll Never Walk Alone...you just dont get that in other sports...why? I immediately googled and low and behold this came up

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ould-rock-through-atmosphere-not-alcohol.html

What can Rugby do to make the atmosphere better?...or is it just simply that the game is seen as an outing for middle class folk (I'm talking England here) to meet up and politely cheer on their team? Surely if the fans became more intense that would make the game more interesting (think Froch vs Groves in the boxing). I believe Rugby loses out by not having intense rivalry.

If you are a Leinster fan I find it hard to believe you don't think Leinster Munster is an intense rivalary at least. There is many rivalaries throughout rugby just because there's not a load of riots doesn't mean there isn't.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Needs more violence. Obvs.

 

[McTallshort]

The atmosphere in Ravenhill is pretty good so I'm not referring to Ireland, but my one and only experience at Twickenham matches that described in the article.

What is well known though is the well mannered aspect of Rugby fans ...and it's that really that I believe is one of the problems. The lack of a healthy intense rivalry doesn't exist. The tribalism, it isn't there. When is the last time you saw an advert on BBC, SKy, BT sport etc build up a forthcoming game? They don't because there isn't the rivalry there to build up.

Load of rubbish just because the fans dont have to be split up and we can behave like humans doesnt mean there is no atmosphere. Frankly your article is a bit stupid you obviously have very little experiance watching live rugby. And drop the whole middle/working class thing its outdated and wrong. More range rovers go to Stamford Bridge than Twickerham these days.

 

[Nielsch]

I went to a match between Stade Francais and Toulouse at the Parc des Princes years ago and the athmosphere was absolutely fantastic! I think the French fans are much more vocal than the English fans. Absolutely loved it.

 

[Draggs]

I went to a match between Stade Francais and Toulouse at the Parc des Princes years ago and the athmosphere was absolutely fantastic! I think the French fans are much more vocal than the English fans. Absolutely loved it.

Agree. I love hearing the T14 fans cheering, chanting, jeering as the game goes on. Why sit it silence? I hate the stiff upper lip must watch rugby in silence people that pop up. They tend to compare everything to being better than football.

 

[siochain]

Leinster v Munster in the Aviva is fairly lively. Generally the provincial games are much better for atmosphere the internationals for a good few years had way too much corporate attendees.

The Munster lads on a day pass to the big smoke and on the porter all day can lead to some interesting exchanges.

 

[SimonG]

If you are a Leinster fan I find it hard to believe you don't think Leinster Munster is an intense rivalary at least. There is many rivalaries throughout rugby just because there's not a load of riots doesn't mean there isn't.

Would you really call it intense though? I'm from the north and go to the odd Ulster game (due to proximity) but have followed Leinster from afar (O'Driscoll effect tbh). I don't sense the intense rivalry that you would see in football (nowhere close really).

I asked the question..is lack of atmosphere/rivalry a problem...because for me personally it is, but for others I don't think they mind at all and just like the day out.

Agree. I love hearing the T14 fans cheering, chanting, jeering as the game goes on. Why sit it silence? I hate the stiff upper lip must watch rugby in silence people that pop up. They tend to compare everything to being better than football.

Me too...I'm not just saying that as I would prefer it different, but also because it doesn't do the sport any good. France does appear to have more edge in the game than here. Look at Mourinho today (calls Wenger a failure), that drama just keeps fuelling the fire. There is a complete lack of it in Rugby. Would Groves vs Froch be such a big draw if they got on? Obviously not. Rugby misses out on this intensity...and perhaps that's just how many who watch the game prefer it.

 

[LittleGuy]

I've always found the atmosphere at Canada games to be pretty good with the glaring exception of Canada vs. Ireland where violence shamefully crept out. The other BMO and York games have been a blast though.

 

[McTallshort]

Would you really call it intense though? I'm from the north and go to the odd Ulster game (due to proximity) but have followed Leinster from afar (O'Driscoll effect tbh). I don't sense the intense rivalry that you would see in football (nowhere close really).

I asked the question..is lack of atmosphere/rivalry a problem...because for me personally it is, but for others I don't think they mind at all and just like the day out.



Me too...I'm not just saying that as I would prefer it different, but also because it doesn't do the sport any good. France does appear to have more edge in the game than here. Look at Mourinho today (calls Wenger a failure), that drama just keeps fuelling the fire. There is a complete lack of it in Rugby. Would Groves vs Froch be such a big draw if they got on? Obviously not. Rugby misses out on this intensity...and perhaps that's just how many who watch the game prefer it.

Yeah no intensity with the Ireland V Wales game last week given the history from the last Lions test. No rivalry between Tigers and Saints or Glouster and Bath or France NZ. Obviously your watching a different sport to me.

 

[welshglory]

II think u have to be in denial to claim that there is high level atmosphere at rugby games. Typical as well to hear people berating football, one of the worst aspects of rugby snobs. Those types make me sick.

I think it definitely has to do with culture and history tbh. Club football and r league started off as working class spectator sports. That identity and all it brings has carried through. You can go on all u like about the bad things but id rather stand in borussia dortmund's terrace etc... for atmosphere other than a top rugby game.

Obviously there are places in england, ireland, wales where rugby has similar roots. But it's laughable to suggest it's anywhere near the level of other sports. Munster's supporters are great at singing fields of athenry, booing the opposition and ref when things don't go their way and the silence during kicks... If u care for that i suppose. Not much else however during a game and they're apparently one of the top atmospheres in club rugby.

Lets be real here. Rugby has a long way to go. The purist and snobs may say it's all fine and good but i'm sure the casual fan would be more attracted if there was some more atmosphere.

I'll also add that rugby union has first and foremost always been about the international game due to amateism and design. So there has never been much passion for club level as a spectacle. And you just don't get the type of passion for international level sports in any sport that u do at club level.

 

[gaston le gaff]

(I'll also add that rugby union has first and foremost always been about the international game due to amateism and design. So there has never been much passion for club level as a spectacle. And you just don't get the type of passion for international level sports in any sport that u do at club level.[/QUOTE])

You have obviously never seen a French game, or played in France like myself. The myth in village rugby was that you could hear the church bells from the pitch, and i can assure you the atmosphere was on and off the pitch sometimes more than hostile but still very passionate.
Today we play USAP at home, although the derby does not exist between the players (years ago it was massive) as there are now lots of foreigners which has taken the edge of the local derbies, the rivalry between the fans is enormous and i can assure you that today will be hostile but in the good sense , each supporter getting behind his or hers team with loads of good hearted banter. There is some ****le between some teams we have Geli, Chale-Watchou and Nico Mas who are all playing today and used to play for USAP, and with Perez playing for USAP it could be quite warm on the pitch as well, and Jgenti is playing for them he was at Montpellier before.
Do yourself a favourand watch some French Rugby and maybre you will change your mind.

 

[RWC2011Fan]

I'd say the atmosphere generated by Clermont and Toulon fans is way up there. Check these out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-l8FkQeT1M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61d21oWtcI8

Test Matches at Millennium Stadium are meant to be amazing as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM4mIlYKG9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTuR7Pr9Csg

I know I'm getting carried away here, but Ireland vs. Argentina in Paris always sticks out in my mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM0ODNxq-Ic

EDIT: Oh, and how could I forget this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdLPuywBLUg
I think it'll be a long time before we ever see a rugby crowd react like that again. Too bad they lost...reminds me of the NZ game last year.

On a side note, I've heard the atmosphere for England internationals at Wembley ain't so hot.

I've always been rather envious of the atmosphere at rugby matches up in the northern hemisphere. As the number one nation in rugby, you'd think NZ would be up there in terms of fans and crowds. With the exception of when the world cup was here, this is unfortunately not the case. Going to Super Rugby games is fairly forgettable (apart from when I saw the Hurricanes vs. the Chiefs in '12), the atmosphere at ITM Cup games is pretty much non-existent, and I've heard All Blacks games are almost equally as bland. I suppose black isn't exactly a very impressive colour to paint a stadium on match-day, but the crowds don't seem all that involved outside of the occasional "All Blacks!" chant. It seems like Australian rugby crowds have gone in a similar direction. The Red, Rebels, and Force seem to have decent fans, but what happened to the days when Wallaby supporters use to belt out "Waltzing Matilda"? Their travelling support is still impressive though.

I've seen NZ fans argue that the atmosphere is better at games in the northern hemisphere because nothing's happening on the pitch, so the crowds have to entertain themselves. Whereas in the southern hemisphere, they say more is going on so they're more focussed on watching the game, rather than creating an atmosphere. The thing is though, if you're not there to create an atmosphere at the game, why bother coming out at all? Why not just stay at home and watch it on TV? Atmosphere is meant to be the biggest incentive for coming out and watching a game in the first place. I'm also not fully convinced that the crowds in NZ are actually watching the game. There always seem to be a constant drone during matches, as if the crowd's just engaging in unrelated conversation in between scores. If people were actually watching the match, I'd expect something more along the lines of some of the games in '07 where everyone would sit in silence, but erupt into applause whenever something good happened.

 

[RoosTah]

I was just responding to a post by Sanzar ("Soccer violence" in the all sports section) and got me thinking..why is the atmosphere in Rugby lacking? The atmosphere in football is better in Australia, South Africa, and as we know here..England. 95,000 Aussie Liverpool fans singing Youll Never Walk Alone...you just dont get that in other sports...why? I immediately googled and low and behold this came up

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ould-rock-through-atmosphere-not-alcohol.html

What can Rugby do to make the atmosphere better?...or is it just simply that the game is seen as an outing for middle class folk (I'm talking England here) to meet up and politely cheer on their team? Surely if the fans became more intense that would make the game more interesting (think Froch vs Groves in the boxing). I believe Rugby loses out by not having intense rivalry.

This to me reads more like an English problem than anything else. Rugby League, AFL and even Union all have great atmosphere in Aust if your at a big match up. Union has been on the downer here for a while, which has killed the atmosphere a bit, but anything involving NSW playing Qld is always going to get a lot of aggression and passion amongst the fans - I was just responding to a post by Sanzar ("Soccer violence" in the all sports section) and got me thinking..why is the atmosphere in Rugby lacking? The atmosphere in football is better in Australia, South Africa, and as we know here..England. 95,000 Aussie Liverpool fans singing Youll Never Walk Alone...you just dont get that in other sports...why? I immediately googled and low and behold this came up[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10449132/England-v-New-Zealand-Twickenham-needs-footballs-tribalism-it-should-rock-through-atmosphere-not-alcohol.htmlWhat can Rugby do to make the atmosphere better?...or is it just simply that the game is seen as an outing for middle class folk (I'm talking England here) to meet up and politely cheer on their team? Surely if the fans became more intense that would make the game more interesting (think Froch vs Groves in the boxing). I believe Rugby loses out by not having intense rivalry.[/QUOTE]This to me reads more like an English problem than anything else. Rugby League, AFL and even Union all have great atmosphere in Aust if your at a big match up. Union has been on the downer here for a while, which has killed the atmosphere a bit, but anything involving NSW playing Qld is always going to get a lot of aggression and passion amongst the fans - just look at the highlights from the 80k plus full stadium of last year's Rugby League SOO - active support and lots of noise, but just no soccer ********s trying to bash people because they think thats what being a fan is about."]just look at the highlights from the 80k plus full stadium of last year's Rugby League SO[/URL]O - active support and lots of noise, but just no soccer ********s trying to bash people because they think thats what being a fan is about.

Also, anyone who has spent any time in Melbourne knows that the AFL generates crowds and atmosphere as well as any other sport. AFL is a sport of constant and dizzying action though, so active support areas like those of low action and limited scoring games like soccer just don't make sense. Looking at the Western Sydney Wanderers soccers fans, a lot of them spend half the match with the backs turned jumping up and down - you'd never see that in a contact football code like league, union or Australian Football because there is just too much going on.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd agree that the atmosphere in British rugby can be quite lacking sometimes, there are many different reasons for this IMO.
It should also be said that the atmosphere can be great!

A lot of the people that buy tickets at Twickenham, or have season tickets simply don't follow rugby.
They go to see England play at Twickenham a few times a year and that's it - I have close friends who do this - it's not conjecture.
They have a loose understanding of the rules, and virtually no knowledge of their own players... let alone the opposition.

I really do not think that the vast majority of people at Twickenham for England games have a very good understanding of the game or any deep emotional attachment to it.

In England at least, a lot of the time a lack of atmosphere can be attributed to clubs overreaching in their choice of venue or simply poor stadium design.
Look at Wasps or Irish, they play in half empty stadiums for the entire season.

Wasps in particular suffer from their lack of a proper, appropriate home ground.
In my opinion they are the only premiership "London..." club deserving of their name - them and Harlequins are the two Urban London clubs.
They moved away from their core home support base at a time when they should have been consolidating what they had and taking advantage of the enormous (and extremely affluent) local populace.
On top of that they moved to a ****-hole stadium.

The best atmospheres are found at clubs that have not moved around: Quins, Gloucester, Tigers, Saints and Chiefs for example.

On top of that the design of stadiums is generally poor IMO.
Seats are generally too far away and the stands feel too open.
The field should feel enveloped by the crowd.

The middle class nature of the sport in England doesn't help with regards to crowd "rowdiness" but this is of minor significance IMO.
Too many clubs have not had the stability needed to foster strong emotional ties with their fans.

 

[Nielsch]

The atmosphere in the south of France is fantastic. Fans are vocal and singing all the time, with the USA Perpignan fans probably the most vocal.

 

[SimonG]

Yeah no intensity with the Ireland V Wales game last week given the history from the last Lions test.

See, I absolutely loved that. Thanks to Gatland, it's the first time in god knows how long when there was a little bit of needle going into the game. That needle made the game matter that bit more. The victory that bit sweeter. There simply isn't enough of it in Rugby (for me anyway, again, i appreciate that others it would seem prefer the more friendly, genteel nature of the sport).

II think u have to be in denial to claim that there is high level atmosphere at rugby games. Typical as well to hear people berating football, one of the worst aspects of rugby snobs. Those types make me sick.

I think it definitely has to do with culture and history tbh. Club football and r league started off as working class spectator sports. That identity and all it brings has carried through. You can go on all u like about the bad things but id rather stand in borussia dortmund's terrace etc... for atmosphere other than a top rugby game.

Lets be real here. Rugby has a long way to go. The purist and snobs may say it's all fine and good but i'm sure the casual fan would be more attracted if there was some more atmosphere.

I'll also add that rugby union has first and foremost always been about the international game due to amateism and design. So there has never been much passion for club level as a spectacle. And you just don't get the type of passion for international level sports in any sport that u do at club level.

I'd echo this. I used the intense rivalry between Groves and Froch as an example to show how the casual fan is drawn into watching them fight. There isn't anywhere near the intense rivalry in Rugby which is why the atmosphere is lacking, and why the casual fan isn't drawn in. Rugby (and cricket) are rooted in good etiquette, which is only great from a non sporting rivalry point of view.

 

[Amiga500]

What can Rugby do to make the atmosphere better?

Hmmm... lets see. A few steps just off the top of my head.

- Segregate the crowds... with massive fences akin to a prison separating the the supporters. Can't be having any one of us thinking the other crowd are anything but animals eh?
- Have police escort the away support to the ground from their buses. Then after the game, escort them from the ground to their buses. They aren't fit to share the same air as us never mind socialise in our town. Get them out. Immediately. The police should have big starving dogs to assist them.
- Don't let the away support anywhere near pubs or bars in the vicinity of the ground. That lot in my bar? Over my dead body... well... over their glassed and bleeding-to-death body preferably.
- In fact, ban alcohol sales in the vicinity of the ground for half the day prior to kick-off and for good measure, a few hours after kickoff. Wouldn't want anyone glassing one of their own supporters by accident when limbering up for the "match" would we?
- Completely ban alcohol sales in the ground. What a silly idea that is... some marshals might get glassed when we're on our glassing frenzy.
- Ban women and children from games. We don't want them getting in the road of our riots do we?
- Ban terracing from stadia... its hard to pick up a seat and throw it at some scumbag (that obviously deserved it) from Dublin/Limerick/Galway/Glasgow/Cardiff/Leicester/Northampton/Toulouse when your just standing on concrete steps.
- Instead of flags, hand out knifes before the games. Self protection innit. You wouldn't want to be defenceless if one of them sneaky scumbags sitting in your section of the crowd, breaking away from the police cordon escorting them back to their bus and then hunting you down in a cafe in the vicinity of the ground and knifing all the women and children and then beating your head to a bloody pulp with a seat they stole from the ground when your having your caffeine free latte? That'd be a disaster.

Make all them changes, and the atmosphere would be pure great so it would.