-
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
Lions Captaincy 2017
- Thread starter munstermuffin
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2010
- Messages
- 5,744
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Why isn't Sexton ever mentioned as a possibility? His leadership for Leinster has been massive.
Otherwise, I'm leaning towards best. You would think he's the most likely starter but remember last tour when Gatland didn't go for him in the original party? Who knows but maybe Gats isn't a fan.
People talk about Murray but I don't think he seeks that kind of role.
Talk about Wyn-Jones must be over by now - not sure to start and he can't even control his own kickers.
Farrell doesn't seem right to me. Reckon he could be clashing with Sexton who should be calling the shots if Farrell is at 12. What works for England in that regard may not work for the lions, besides which I just think we can do better.
Warburton - if he can emerge as the leading candidate at 7 he's a very possible one. But he resigned from the captiancy of Wales to focus on his own game. Why would he then accept the lions captaincy? Would seem a little contrary.
Maro Itoje? I don't think he should...It would be better for him to focus on his own game at his age and experience. But he's leading the pack of excellent second rows. Gets hyper excited and vocal during games.
Johnny Gray - does he lead for Scotland? I genuinely don't know. Doesn't seem to relish the spotlight.
Otherwise, I'm leaning towards best. You would think he's the most likely starter but remember last tour when Gatland didn't go for him in the original party? Who knows but maybe Gats isn't a fan.
People talk about Murray but I don't think he seeks that kind of role.
Talk about Wyn-Jones must be over by now - not sure to start and he can't even control his own kickers.
Farrell doesn't seem right to me. Reckon he could be clashing with Sexton who should be calling the shots if Farrell is at 12. What works for England in that regard may not work for the lions, besides which I just think we can do better.
Warburton - if he can emerge as the leading candidate at 7 he's a very possible one. But he resigned from the captiancy of Wales to focus on his own game. Why would he then accept the lions captaincy? Would seem a little contrary.
Maro Itoje? I don't think he should...It would be better for him to focus on his own game at his age and experience. But he's leading the pack of excellent second rows. Gets hyper excited and vocal during games.
Johnny Gray - does he lead for Scotland? I genuinely don't know. Doesn't seem to relish the spotlight.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2015
- Messages
- 7,115
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
On Warburton resigning from Wales captaincy, as you said that was to focus on his own game, but the catalyst of that would've been that he wants to make the Lions tour. I wouldn't have thought that, if offered the Lions captaincy, ensuring his Lions spot, he'd turn it down.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2010
- Messages
- 19,653
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Could Vunipola play 6? I think Heaslip is a better option but few else do.
6. Vunipola
7. Watson/Warburton
8. Heaslip (c)
20. CJ
Could easily work, I think Heaslip would be perfect for this sort of role.
6. Vunipola
7. Watson/Warburton
8. Heaslip (c)
20. CJ
Could easily work, I think Heaslip would be perfect for this sort of role.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Messages
- 15,865
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
My worry is Heaslips time as Ireland's captain was failure and that hangs over him. I don't think he's bad captain myself and think he's actually suited as he seems very outgoing and socialable on tours.
It was on the radio there with Shane Williams and he was asked about Lions. He reckons Gatland will 100% start Vunipola with Faletau off bench. Also he seems sure Warburton will be 6.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2010
- Messages
- 5,744
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
A Warburton / Watson combo would be ridiculously lightweight - definitely don't want to see that.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Messages
- 15,865
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Maybe Sean O'Brien as 7
Warburton will be Lions captain. He's been good enough in the games thus far for Gatland to justify the selection.
Winning captain last time, experienced player, a forward, being Welsh.....odds stacked in his favour imo.
Winning captain last time, experienced player, a forward, being Welsh.....odds stacked in his favour imo.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2013
- Messages
- 25,581
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
6) Stander
7) Watson
7) Watson
- Joined
- May 20, 2008
- Messages
- 5,252
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
He's not been that great and he's not even starting at 7 for his own country. He's definitely no 6 and the Welsh back row looks very unbalanced with him at 6.
I think we need a tour captain and then separate game captains.
How does that hinder his chances in any way? Does he have to be 7 to be Lions captain? Or does the Welsh back row have to be balanced for him to be captain? Just curious.
- Joined
- May 20, 2008
- Messages
- 5,252
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
As in he's not even the best 7 in Wales so should start for the lions at 7 and he isn't a 6. If you play him there it unbalances the back row.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2010
- Messages
- 5,744
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Won a game as captain you mean! Alun-Wyn was the winning captain at the end of the series
I agree he's a likely candidate but Gatland isn't completely naive, he knows how much wider the pool of potential players is than last time.
He won't tour but robshaw continues to be an extremely underrated player. Would work exceptionally well alongside a proper number 7. England aren't the same without him.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2011
- Messages
- 10,090
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
I agree on every player bar maybe AWJ. I think he's been seriously scapegoated for his failing last week (which I admit are failings), but at the same time I don't truly blame him for trusting his kicker's intuition as at the end of the day the kicker is the one who has to nail the points, and they probably have the best idea about their own abilities. Listen if you get it right you look like a genius, if you get it wrong you have egg on your face. Some leaders dictate, some prefer to have open court. He looked a fool because he'd initially called posts, but I'm sure it happens more than you'd think. He's not sure to start, but I think he's an excellent leader, and has been consistently excellent for so long.
Honestly the captaincy is fun to discuss, but the tour captain's main responsibility is media duty as the team will be packed with on field leaders from the three nations, and whatever Wales is, regardless. I think if he's in top form it will probably be Warbs. Has the age and experience to lead the team as a respected figure.
Personally I don't trust a captain that says "I don't care if you think you can get this kick, take it anyway". AWJ is completely right to go for the corner if the kickers say no.
The only issue is airing the dirty laundry out in the open in a way that implies some sort of trouble beyond that simple conversation, and that might be more of the journos than AWJ.
Also I like Warbs and Tipuric. Reminds me of Hill and Back. The balance is off in that they don't have a Dally figure (but would with Faletau fit and firing) and they don't have a monster tight five. Wales can't do anything about that but the Lions could.
The only issue is airing the dirty laundry out in the open in a way that implies some sort of trouble beyond that simple conversation, and that might be more of the journos than AWJ.
Also I like Warbs and Tipuric. Reminds me of Hill and Back. The balance is off in that they don't have a Dally figure (but would with Faletau fit and firing) and they don't have a monster tight five. Wales can't do anything about that but the Lions could.
ALJ
Academy Player
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2016
- Messages
- 424
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
I wouldn't disagree but this seems to point to the changing role of the 6 in modern rugby.
Not so long ago Itoje would have been seen as an ideal blindside - nothing flashy but is involved all over the pitch and the team just plays better with him in the side (like Hill was back in the day).
These days they seem to be more often employed as a close in ball carrier with the traditional blindside work getting done by the second row and/or getting spread throughout the side (Stander & Kaino seem like good examples).
I actually think Warburton works pretty well at 6 but that's based on the traditional view of the role and I'm increasingly thinking that my view is out of date.
- - - Updated - - -
This - AWJ's mistake in my eyes was effectively blaming the kickers in public - looked like he was ducking the responsibility.
I also like the Welsh 6/7 combo - see above for why.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2010
- Messages
- 5,744
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Wait does everyone think the kickers disobeyed because they just didn't think they could get the kick? I read it differently, as a straight up disagreement about what the best decision was. I mean wasn't Bigger the main one pointing to the corner? What's he got to do with whether Halfpenny can get the kick? You've seen Halfpenny nail such kicks. I agree in principle of for example the kicker believes it's out of his range but this just seems different. I refuse to believe Halfpenny wouldn't back himself to make such a kick.
Groundhog, fair points but if as you say the media is the main part of captaincy I'm not sure AWJ is best. Warburton always did that stuff well. Likeable, interesting...AWJ just gives the impression he's searching for the nearest tall building to jump off (not that I blame him with some of the questions asked)
Groundhog, fair points but if as you say the media is the main part of captaincy I'm not sure AWJ is best. Warburton always did that stuff well. Likeable, interesting...AWJ just gives the impression he's searching for the nearest tall building to jump off (not that I blame him with some of the questions asked)
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2011
- Messages
- 7,976
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Fixed that tigs
Biggar has said he was turning to give the ball to Halfpenny when Halfpenny said he didn't fancy it so AWJ said best go in the corner. I presume that, if true, Biggar was pointing to the corner to communicate with the ref. I don't know if that stacks up with the video but then, I don't care enough to find out
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2010
- Messages
- 5,744
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Biggar has said he was turning to give the ball to Halfpenny when Halfpenny said he didn't fancy it so AWJ said best go in the corner. I presume that, if true, Biggar was pointing to the corner to communicate with the ref. I don't know if that stacks up with the video but then, I don't care enough to find out
Sure, I don't blame you! Just meant I would look completely differently at the whole thing if it was just a case of not fancying it
Similar threads
