Newbie So whats up with the haka?

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jul 17 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Ahhh the old throat slitting gesture.

We should sit idly by and respect that too?[/b]

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jul 18 2009, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Ahhh the old throat slitting gesture.

We should sit idly by and respect that too?[/b]

My good sir, you should never sit during a Haka, unless you are watching it from the stands or television screen. As for being idle, I never suggested for a moments that being given the Haka, one should not be preductive. As for respecting it, do you think a team shouldn't pull faces during another countries national anthem?

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flux @ Jul 17 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I honestly can't see the problem with getting as close as possible during the Haka, aside from the fact that it could lead to an all out brawl, but it's up to the officials to sort that. It is a challenge and it should be treated as such, anyone who gets their knickers in a knot when the challenge is taken up needs to think about how intimidating the Haka must be to some. Although correct me if I'm wrong, Ka Mate isn't actually supposed to be a 'challenge' as such?

Quite a few schoolboy teams have their own school Haka or regions' Haka to perform and it is a big part of the New Zealand sporting culture. At this year's school swimming sports two of the houses did Ka Mate against each other and those at the front of each group were literally in each other's faces.[/b]

What school are you at that the guys had to do ka mate? Every school i played against at highschool in NZ had their own haka, even the catholic school with under 10 Maori boys on their roll had their own.

My school had a haka compition as part of the house cup and at 1st XV games all 1300 boys would stand on the terrices and perform the school haka. Its quite a sight.

 

[Bullitt]

Don't the Irish have a tendency to pretty-much eery time they play, get right into the faces of the ABs (and any other Kiwi teams, for that matter)?

Before they have their arses handed to them, (every time they play) that is...

 

[monkeypigeon]

Not all the time really. Just the times we do are more memorable and hence people think it's all the time.

And yeah, we do lose all the time. Some sort of mental block going on there we we have to choke. But O'Gara will be gone soon so we might win.

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Jul 17 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I am in agreement with it, but it's a matter of time until one of the arm swinging gestures hits a "challenged" player, who shouldn't be up in your face like that. Up in your face like a metre away, fine. Up in your face like 5 centimetres or more, is asking for trouble. Culture or not, we aren't wanting violence to break out, or the good reputation of the Haka to be soiled.

I mean how close is too close? Pushing heads together? The day that the first brawl happens because of "too close" has already happened in junior levels, it must not come to tests. A punch up prior to the kick-off is not what anyone wants.

Or is it?[/b]

In regards to how close is "too close" thing, in new zealand their is a bylaw in the rules that states neither team is allowed to cross their own 22 line. So past that is too close i guess.

If a team breaks this rule the game begins with a free kick to their opposition on the halfway as opposed to a kickoff.

I guess thats why the NZ Under 20s took offence. They probably thought the Irish guys were breaking the rules crossing the 22 metre, not realising its a law that is only in effect in New Zealand

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 17 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

[/b]

What? We havent had a good arguement in here for about a week now!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 17 2009, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Don't the Irish have a tendency to pretty-much every time they play, get right into the faces of the ABs (and any other Kiwi teams, for that matter)?[/b]

Bit of a generalisation there but its been done twice in 20 years. Havent beaten them so cant argue with the second bit.

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jul 18 2009, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If your looking to put down a challenge, accept one in return. Quit *****ing, do your thing, and if the opposition swing for you then return the favour with interest. If not, then play the game.

This whole "you must stay this far back, and be respectful yadda yadda yadda" is nonsense.[/b]

In your opinion. Just because you say so, doesn't make it any more valid than what I said. Except I'm not condoning assault.

 

[shazbooger]

That comment wasnt aimed at you or any poster here. It was aimed at the NZ union, the IRB and everyone else that is getting precious about the Haka.

 

[Bullitt]

The way the Welsh responded last year was (IMHO) the best "response" anyone has done (bar the Haka vs Haka such as NZ v Tonga 2003). It was actually answering the challenge and accepting it saying "Alright, you've got our attention... Your move!"

However all this bullshit of getting in their face/stand in a huddle and ignore/lift your kilt and flash them turns the spectacle of the Haka into little more then a cock waving contest, more akin to responding the same was 'Ten Tooth Tom' in the pub responds when you knock over his pint.

the good:
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The bad:
(Cockerill part)
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But, that said they all get the crowd fired up. So I guess they're all good for what they are.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 17 2009, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The way the Welsh responded last year was (IMHO) the best "response" anyone has done (bar the Haka vs Haka such as NZ v Tonga 2003). It was actually answering the challenge and accepting it saying "Alright, you've got our attention... Your move!"

However all this bullshit of getting in their face/stand in a huddle and ignore/lift your kilt and flash them turns the spectacle of the Haka into little more then a cock waving contest, more akin to responding the same was 'Ten Tooth Tom' in the pub responds when you knock over his pint.

the good:
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ncu6SzmHe3E&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ncu6SzmHe3E&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

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The bad:
(Cockerill part)
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BFhtPocSiJY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BFhtPocSiJY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bh8ccDtcoac&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bh8ccDtcoac&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

But, that said they all get the crowd fired up. So I guess they're all good for what they are.[/b]

agreed.

 

[feicarsinn]

To be honest I'm a bit sick of the haka. Sure it's a great spectacle but it is being done to death. Alright when we'd only see the ABs maybe once every two years it was a big thing and a bit of a novelty but maybe they should limit it's use to away games or something, you know to preserve it's effect and significance.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jul 17 2009, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

agreed.[/b]

Nahhhhh sry mate, dont agree with either of you.

I like the Haka but there is no way it should be a one way thing.

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jul 18 2009, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That comment wasnt aimed at you or any poster here. It was aimed at the NZ union, the IRB and everyone else that is getting precious about the Haka.[/b]

Ok then fair enough. I think we are largely on the same page with this one then.

 

[Flux]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Jul 18 2009, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flux @ Jul 17 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I honestly can't see the problem with getting as close as possible during the Haka, aside from the fact that it could lead to an all out brawl, but it's up to the officials to sort that. It is a challenge and it should be treated as such, anyone who gets their knickers in a knot when the challenge is taken up needs to think about how intimidating the Haka must be to some. Although correct me if I'm wrong, Ka Mate isn't actually supposed to be a 'challenge' as such?

Quite a few schoolboy teams have their own school Haka or regions' Haka to perform and it is a big part of the New Zealand sporting culture. At this year's school swimming sports two of the houses did Ka Mate against each other and those at the front of each group were literally in each other's faces.[/b]

What school are you at that the guys had to do ka mate? Every school i played against at highschool in NZ had their own haka, even the catholic school with under 10 Maori boys on their roll had their own.

My school had a haka compition as part of the house cup and at 1st XV games all 1300 boys would stand on the terrices and perform the school haka. Its quite a sight.
[/b][/quote]

Oh no, they didn't have to do Ka Mate. It was just a decision made by my house that in the entrance they would do Ka Mate to the other houses as a 'challenge' and another house caught wind of it so they both did it to each other. It's the first time anything like that has happened at my school and this is my last year here.

In saying that, rarely ever do the rugby boys do a Haka and I think it's only been used when they've gone away on tours.

 

[Hosscooper]

Well having carefully read all the responses I'd like to put my 2 cents in. Ok I like the haka think it's cool. maybe it's being done a little much??? maybe not? I can understand I actually formulated a response to it actually. Since I'm part Indian I would love the chance to run up to the halfway mark (after the haka) and in a strong voice, and in my tribes language tell them Who I am , and that I ain't scared.
In the movie Dances with Wolves there is a similar scene. When Wind in his hair rides up to Lt Dunbar and tells him pretty much that. It's called counting coup! Having said that I would stay on my side of the field till the kick off then it would be on! Cheers y'all. HOSSC

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HOSS C. @ Jul 18 2009, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well having carefully read all the responses I'd like to put my 2 cents in. Ok I like the haka think it's cool. maybe it's being done a little much??? maybe not? I can understand I actually formulated a response to it actually. Since I'm part Indian I would love the chance to run up to the halfway mark (after the haka) and in a strong voice, and in my tribes language tell them Who I am , and that I ain't scared.
In the movie Dances with Wolves there is a similar scene. When Wind in his hair rides up to Lt Dunbar and tells him pretty much that. It's called counting coup! Having said that I would stay on my side of the field till the kick off then it would be on! Cheers y'all. HOSSC[/b]

You have stimulated an interesting debate, so good on you for that Hoss C.

Due to how the haka is done, if that is how your culture would respond, then your team of 15 would be entitled to do your tribes response at the same time as the maori haka was happening, as thats what happens when two teams have their own haka. The effect is to show a lack of intimidation, so an American Indian tribes team response would be equally as valid as that.

 

[bristol-iain]

Did love our response to it from last season, the atmosphere in the Southampton walkabout (crammed with welsh) was amazing after that.

The games against other Pacific nations are great spectales because of their challenges.

In watching those videos is it just me or in the time between the Haka in the Cockerill vid and the one say against the Lions in 95 has the Haka got more agressive? Seems so.

The Haka is one of Rugby's great little traditions, almost a 2nd national anthem. The ones who want it to stop obviously havn't seen it. I went to the Millenium Staduim for Wales vs New Zealand few year back and the Haka gaveme the goosebumps, trueley awsome spectacle.

 

[Thingimubob]

I was in the Stadium when Wales did the challenge to the All Blacks, and I have to say that the atmosphere was just...wow. I mean like bristol-iain said the atmosphere is electric when just the Haka is performed, but when they did that responce it was just fantastic! Imo, it sparked Wales to play one of the best halves of rugby that this current Welsh team has ever played. They really gave the All Blacks a lot of problems, even Dan Carter struggled a bit against Stephen Jones. But the All Blacks showed what a class team they are in the second half and pulled away. Still, what a match!

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Jul 17 2009, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Jul 17 2009, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's either fence sitting to the max or sarcasm. Nobody wants a fight before kick-off, nooo, that can only happen during the game

BTW I'm not saying challenging the Haka is a bad thing (not this topic again..) all I'm saying is that walking up to the Haka and getting tonked is as feable as if the AB's weren't good at rugby.

I know teams do this to inspire confidence, I call it 'chicken before the egg' confidence (except France). They acting confident eventhough it has no grounding aka optimism (except France). Which is all and well if it works! Soon it will become custom to walk up if you think you're not good enough, because the teams who actually do it get tonked (except France).

In fact, lets give the French the sole rights to it! [/b]

Agreed :bravo:

Btw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhyxfmoSxOA
[/b][/quote]

Priceless!

A hundred players on the pitch, some chap swinging a chinese cleaver, one witch doctor screaming his head off, and a punch up before the whistle followed by everyone having a laugh. Bit like an opera.

Bet the match was crap.