No more foreigners in France team says Laporte

[smartcooky]

You've proved my point. They've a squad packed with Pacific islanders.

Utter bollocks. That is not what you originally claimed. You accused them of "raiding the Pacific Islands for talent". Are you trying to say that Australian born people of Pacific Islands decent, and foreign born children who were raised and educated and have worked all their adult lives in Australia, and who have settled there and have family there, should not be allowed to play for Australia?

They are also very keen for the residency rules to not be changed.

1. You have evidence of this? If so present it.... PUOSU

2. The proposed changes would affect only one current Wallaby squad member (Sefania Naivalu) because he is not yet an Australian citizen. The rest are, so they they would all still be eligible to play for Australia.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

SC, what's your take on the current 3 year residency thing?
Thx in advance.

 

[smartcooky]

SC, what's your take on the current 3 year residency thing?
Thx in advance.

Its too short. IMO, it should be at least 5 years (I would prefer 8 years personally) but that period should not extend back to less than the age of 17. For example, I would not like to see a 15 year old, who emigrates to a new country with his parents (so not his choice) being restricted until he was 23 years old.

An adult rugby player who has played elite rugby in the country of his birth, should not be eligible to play for another country until they have resided in their new country for 8 years. This would put a stop to players like Spedding (France), Stander (Ireland), Anscombe (Wales), Nel (Scotland), van Schalkwyk (Italy) and Payne (Ireland) turning out for those countries until they had resided and played rugby there for 8 years.

I would also ditch the grandparent rule.

 

[Blindside]

I would agree with the above.

The international team should reflect the quality and strengths of the rugby structures within that nation. Why should countries benefit from players developed by other countries. There should be a little bit of flexibility perhaps, but the present circumstances are at times farcical.

 

[profitius]

Utter bollocks. That is not what you originally claimed. You accused them of "raiding the Pacific Islands for talent". Are you trying to say that Australian born people of Pacific Islands decent, and foreign born children who were raised and educated and have worked all their adult lives in Australia, and who have settled there and have family there, should not be allowed to play for Australia?

Those you listed were only the ones to make it as Wallabies.


Whats ******** is having to pretend we don't see all those Pacific Islanders playing for Australia or France for that matter. Its actually an insult to them if you don't recognise their heritage which they are proud of. What are you getting all aggressive about?

1. You have evidence of this? If so present it.... PUOSU

2. The proposed changes would affect only one current Wallaby squad member (Sefania Naivalu) because he is not yet an Australian citizen. The rest are, so they they would all still be eligible to play for Australia.

1. The Australians came out in favour of retaining the current 3 year residency rule just a month or two ago. http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ule-for-test-eligibility-20161007-grxfgh.html
2. Another Fijian who was in the squad before he was even eligible to play for them.

 

[smartcooky]

Those you listed were only the ones to make it as Wallabies.

There are over a QUARTER OF A MILLION people of Pacific Island heritage living in Australia. More than half of those were born there

Whats ******** is having to pretend we don't see all those Pacific Islanders playing for Australia or France for that matter.

Even Australian born ones?

You think its ******** is having to pretend we don't see all those AUSTRALIAN BORN players of Pacific Islands ancestry playing for Australia?

You think its ******** is having to pretend we don't see all those Pacific Islanders who GREW UP IN AUSTRALIA playing for Australia?

Its actually an insult to them if you don't recognise their heritage which they are proud of.

What has their "heritage" got to do with their eligibility? Where they were born and where they grew up is the only thing that matters (or that should matter)

What are you getting all aggressive about?

I get ****** off with the ignorance of people people like you, who see a brown face in the team of a predominantly white country and jump to the spurious conclusion that those players must all have been pillaged from a Pacific Island country.

Over 1000 people immigrate from Samoa alone to Australia. That must be some expensive and wide ranging talent-raiding programme the ARU have going there, importing over a 1000 new prospects every year on the off chance that one or two might make a good rugby player.

Its is simply the reality of the way the world is now. People migrate for work and for the prospect of a better life. Over SIX MILLION Australian residents were born outside of Australia.. that is more than a quarter of the entire population!!
You need to wake up, profitius, and look at what is happening outside of your limited world-view....we're not in Kansas any more!!

 

[profitius]

Ah yes. Lots of people emigrate to Ireland too. Jared Payne, Stander etc looking for a better life.

 

[gaston le gaff]

with a thread ***le of no more foreigners in France, the ***le and thread once again hi jacked by others.

I just love the this one sentence, "it's simply the reality of the way the world is now. People migrate for work and for the prospect of a better life."
obviously except when they come to France and then it's only for MONEY!!!!!!! nothing to do with a better life, prospects or anything else just money funny how some forget previous threads on other subjects.

 

[smartcooky]

Ah yes. Lots of people emigrate to Ireland too. Jared Payne, Stander etc looking for a better life.

Right, so its OK for people of New Zealand or South African heritage to play for Ireland (even though they weren't born in Ireland) but its wrong for people of Polynesian or Melanesian heritage to play for Australia, even though they were born in Australia

Got it!

- - - Updated - - -

with a thread ***le of no more foreigners in France, the ***le and thread once again hi jacked by others.

I just love the this one sentence, "it's simply the reality of the way the world is now. People migrate for work and for the prospect of a better life."
obviously except when they come to France and then it's only for MONEY!!!!!!! nothing to do with a better life, prospects or anything else just money funny how some forget previous threads on other subjects.

The difference is Gaston, that the vast majority of Kiwis and Aussies who go to France to play rugby come back to NZ when they retire from the game - and they bring their wealth with them!!. They never apply for French citizenship and they keep their NZ passports.

The same is not true of Pacific Islanders who come to New Zealand or Australia. They are almost always permanent immigrants who become NZ citizens and passport holders!

 

[gaston le gaff]

Why would they want tp apply for French citizenship, they come for a better life and prospects,not to play for th National team!! i played in France and still have my British passport you're clutching a straws my friend.

 

[smartcooky]

Why would they want tp apply for French citizenship

That is a question I would like the answer to? It is however, a matter of record, that they do not. The vast majority of Kiwis and Aussies that go to Europe to play rugby, come back home.

 

[gaston le gaff]

I still think that the majority of people who say it's all about money are wrong,we have 3 youngsters Viann Liebenberg Jaques du Plessis and Paul Willemse they are all here for the way of life, experience, etc. they are not paid vastly high wages and only Paul is available to play for France on residency next year, they could all possibly play for SA in the future but choose to stay and play in France when they could walk into any club side anywhere in the world. I talk to these guys every week and this is what i am hearing very rarely is money mentioned, they have all signed new contracts with Montpellier till 2020. I only talk about the players i know personnally and not others if i do not know anything about others i do not 2nd guess like many on this forum.

 

[profitius]

Right, so its OK for people of New Zealand or South African heritage to play for Ireland (even though they weren't born in Ireland) but its wrong for people of Polynesian or Melanesian heritage to play for Australia, even though they were born in Australia

Got it!

You don't get it because I was never in favour of NZers and South Africans playing for Ireland. If I was making the rules they would go from 3 years to a minimum of 10 years.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Emboldened words, block caps, starts, unnecessary amounts of exclamation marks disproportionate levels of anger and aggression.

[x] Thread delivers

 

[FrenchFan]

Fantastic to see someone in a position of authority realise that mercenary use of residency rules makes a mockery of international sport and can be a big turn off for people like me. I hope France thrash the other 6N sides and show that focussing 100% on developing your own players does not mean undermining long term success.

I very much doubt that.

I think i read he also wants less foreign players in the club's squads? If so, this may reduce inflation in Pro12 clubs wages and help player retention.

Maybe he does. Unfortunately there's very little Laporte can do about it in this instance. The recruitment by Top 14 clubs is out of his reach. There is a limit to his power as FFr president. If he can broker a deal with the clubs to centrally contract the internationals it'll be a real achievement but he can't dictate recruitment.

Some traditional clubs like Toulouse and Clermont will 'play the game' with the union and keep a balance btw imports and home grown which Toulouse successfully have done for 2 decades.
Others will keep buying foreign because that's all they know and because they can afford it. So the wages inflation we've seen will not go away that quickly unfortunately. I mean we know who is driving that wages inflation and it ain't Toulouse. Dusautoir our biggest salary is on less than half the money Carter is on...

 

[profitius]

http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=384973

Cheika in Fiji doing a bit of shopping.

 

[welshglory]

I very much doubt that.



Maybe he does. Unfortunately there's very little Laporte can do about it in this instance. The recruitment by Top 14 clubs is out of his reach. There is a limit to his power as FFr president. If he can broker a deal with the clubs to centrally contract the internationals it'll be a real achievement but he can't dictate recruitment.

Some traditional clubs like Toulouse and Clermont will 'play the game' with the union and keep a balance btw imports and home grown which Toulouse successfully have done for 2 decades.
Others will keep buying foreign because that's all they know and because they can afford it. So the wages inflation we've seen will not go away that quickly unfortunately. I mean we know who is driving that wages inflation and it ain't Toulouse. Dusautoir our biggest salary is on less than half the money Carter is on...

I remember reading an interview with Mourad and he said that the way to increase the amount of young French players getting game time from the academy systems in particular is to bring in transfer fees for academy graduates, so you have an incentive to develop them instead of just buying in cheap foreign talent... also to improve French players through better coaching and systems. With how big the Top 14 monster is could that be the only realistic approach?

 

[TRF_heineken]

That is a question I would like the answer to? It is however, a matter of record, that they do not. The vast majority of Kiwis and Aussies that go to Europe to play rugby, come back home.

Well, I know why South Africans would want that. It is a matter of "in case". If things continue to deteriorate in South Africa, then these guys have the citizenship, in case it happens to escape to France, and with that, have a foot in the door to get some of their relatives also into France.

Prime Example: Brian Liebenberg. He went to France, even played for France, then after every off season, came to South Africa, visited his family, and then returned to France, now his mom and dad, and his brother are also living in France thanks to him getting citizenship.

I still think that the majority of people who say it's all about money are wrong,we have 3 youngsters Viann Liebenberg Jaques du Plessis and Paul Willemse they are all here for the way of life, experience, etc. they are not paid vastly high wages and only Paul is available to play for France on residency next year, they could all possibly play for SA in the future but choose to stay and play in France when they could walk into any club side anywhere in the world. I talk to these guys every week and this is what i am hearing very rarely is money mentioned, they have all signed new contracts with Montpellier till 2020. I only talk about the players i know personnally and not others if i do not know anything about others i do not 2nd guess like many on this forum.

They are getting paid higher wages than what they were getting paid in South Africa. No doubt they are all 3 quality players, who at the time when they left the Bulls (yes, all 3 of them were at the Bulls), weren't regular starters, due to Springbok players being selected ahead of them. They will undoubtedly be selected now to play for any of the Super Rugby teams (maybe not the Stormers), but the wages they will be offered won't be anywhere close to the wages they are getting in France.

They can even be selected to play for SA while still being in France. It happened to Steven Kitshoff in 2016, so the possibility is there that they could also be selected, so they won't have to come back to SA to be eligible for the Springboks. It just depends on what the directive of SARU is with the selection process.

And not to be attacking Gaston, but IMHO why would any person talk to someone at the same organisation regarding their contract and the money agreed upon. It is extremely unprofessional, and sometimes even grounds for breach of contract. So what else would they say? oh yes, the weather is nice here in Montpellier, and the city is very laid-back, reminds me of the small towns along the coast in the Garden Route back in SA...

 

[gaston le gaff]

And not to be attacking Gaston, but IMHO why would any person talk to someone at the same organisation regarding their contract and the money agreed upon. It is extremely unprofessional, and sometimes even grounds for breach of contract. So what else would they say? oh yes, the weather is nice here in Montpellier, and the city is very laid-back, reminds me of the small towns along the coast in the Garden Route back in SA...

the difference is that as a club official i do know what the players are being paid so i can converse freely about it without mentioning any figures and what you believe to be true is often far from reality, i will agree that the wages here are superior to SA and other SH counties but the cost of living and taxes are far more. i am not going to get into any discussions or arguments as its all been said a million times already. As far as selection goes Paul in an interview last week said he will stay in France and hopefully play for the same athough now it's slightly different with the new rules.(5 yrs instead of 3 residency)

In answer to Welshglory, there are not tranfers in place but if a player signs a pro contract for another club while still in the Academy, that club is responible to pay the cost of the academy fees which do get quite high especially in the case of a National selection then the price goes up even more.
It seems very reasonable that a player spends in access of 2 years at one Academy then goes pro the club must take responsibility for his schooling and rugby education.

 

[saulan]

i will agree that the wages here are superior to SA and other SH counties but the cost of living and taxes are far more.

The cost of living is far higher, but taxes are actually lower, with an individual only paying more tax in France if they earn significantly more than 151,000 euros a year.

France
[TABLE="width: 633"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #006FD2, align: left"]Income Share[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #006FD2, align: left"]Tax Rate[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Up to â'¬9,700[/TD]
[TD]0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Between â'¬9,701 - â'¬26,791[/TD]
[TD]14%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Between â'¬26,792 - â'¬71,826[/TD]
[TD]30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Between â'¬71,827 - â'¬152,108[/TD]
[TD]41%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Above â'¬151,108[/TD]
[TD]45%
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

South Africa
[TABLE="class: ms-rteTable-default, width: 100%"]
<tbody>[TR="class: ms-rteTableHeaderRow-default"]
[TH="class: ms-rteTableHeaderEvenCol-default"]​Taxable income (R) (Euros in brackets)[/TH]
[TH="class: ms-rteTableHeaderOddCol-default"]​Rates of tax (R)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: ms-rteTableOddRow-default"]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableEvenCol-default"]​0 - 181 900 (12,590)[/TD]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableOddCol-default"]​18% of each R1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: ms-rteTableEvenRow-default"]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableEvenCol-default"]​181 901 (12,590) - 284 100 (19,759)[/TD]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableOddCol-default"]​32 742 + 26% of the amount above 181 900[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: ms-rteTableOddRow-default"]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableEvenCol-default"]​284 101 (19,759) - 393 200 (27,358)[/TD]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableOddCol-default"]​59 314 + 31% of the amount above 284 100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: ms-rteTableEvenRow-default"]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableEvenCol-default"]​393 201 (27,358) - 550 100 (38,275)[/TD]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableOddCol-default"]​93 135 + 36% of the amount above 393 200[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: ms-rteTableOddRow-default"]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableEvenCol-default"]​550 101 (38,275) - 701 300 (48,777)[/TD]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableOddCol-default"]​149 619 + 39% of the amount above 550 100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: ms-rteTableEvenRow-default"]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableEvenCol-default"]​701 301 (48,777) and above[/TD]
[TD="class: ms-rteTableOddCol-default"]​208 587 + 41% of the amount above 701 300[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]