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[Pacific Nations Cup] United States vs. Canada. 21/06/14
- Thread starter LittleGuy
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this game has more twists than a Agatha Christie novel.
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That was great work at the breakdown by the Eagles.
Bided their time until the penalty advantage was used up, then went in and stole the ball.
Bided their time until the penalty advantage was used up, then went in and stole the ball.
LittleGuy
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What an end. Wow great game for the neutral, tough loss to take here for Canada as have 5 of our last 6 losses. Could have taken the draw don't fault the decision to go for the win. Some changes need to be made now, Ardon as captain isn't working out clearly. Hirayama needs to be barred from XV's. Mackenzie should have been on the side playing in the CT's.
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Super, Super, Super Scully.
No one messes with the Tiger.
No one messes with the Tiger.
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LittleGuy
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Yeah I'm mixed on that call, I think the yellow card tilted their decision to go for it, the 2nd penalty decline was probably the angle.
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Fair play USA.
They, probably, looked the better side throughout. Canada showed flashes of better play, but the Eagles were more consistent.
Can't argue with a high scoring game, as a neutral, though.
They, probably, looked the better side throughout. Canada showed flashes of better play, but the Eagles were more consistent.
Can't argue with a high scoring game, as a neutral, though.
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Good finish.
Very true. It was a tough decision and I can see either side of it.
Tolkin's arse has just been saved with this win. As a US fan glad to finally see a couple of streaks end today, they showed flashes of their potential but still tons of stuff to work on. I'm still not convinced in this side, but a step in the right direction. Apart from a couple of stretches from both sides where they scored tries, the run of play was fairly even I'd say. US looked motivated today and played with a lot more pace and go forward then they've shown and that's a step up. Still some decision making issues (why not go for a try when Sinclair's carded in the second half down by 3 scores? Luckily it worked out. Kicking issues as well). Handling still sloppy and open field defense was horrific in many stages. I'm happy they won, but still left a bit unsatisfied.
Match report I kept (Canadian subs at start of half really got me).
USA 38-35 Canada (18-28 HT)
USA
Try: Blaine Scully (28', 59'), Chris Wyles (31'), Brett Thompson (70')
Con: Chris Wyles 3/4 (28'x, 32', 61', 71')
Pen: Chris Wyles 4/4 (5', 11', 52', 68')
YC: Scott LaValla (80+1')
S: ***i Lamositele on Olive Kilifi off (41'), Niua on Palamo off (46'), Coolican on Thiel off (47'), Lou Stanfill on Hayden Smith off (63'), Fry on Wallace off (71'), Luke Hume on Chris Wyles off (74')
Canada
Try: Harry Jones (22', 43'), Aaron Carpenter (35'), James Pritchard (39'), Ciaran Hearn (40+1')
Con: James Pritchard 5/5 (24', 36', 40', 40+2', 44')
Pen: James Pritchard 0/1 (29'x)
YC: Phil Mack (9'), Jebb Sinclair (51')
S: Phil Mack off Gordon McRorie on (34'), Tyler Hotson off Jon Phelan on (41'), Nathan Hirayama on Jeff Hassler off (41'), Hubert Buydens on Andrew Tiedmann off (41'), Jason Marshall on Jake Ilnicki off (41'), Tyler Ardron off Kyle Gilmour on (56'), Ray Barwill on Aaron Carpenter off (63')
USA 38-35 Canada (18-28 HT)
USA
Try: Blaine Scully (28', 59'), Chris Wyles (31'), Brett Thompson (70')
Con: Chris Wyles 3/4 (28'x, 32', 61', 71')
Pen: Chris Wyles 4/4 (5', 11', 52', 68')
YC: Scott LaValla (80+1')
S: ***i Lamositele on Olive Kilifi off (41'), Niua on Palamo off (46'), Coolican on Thiel off (47'), Lou Stanfill on Hayden Smith off (63'), Fry on Wallace off (71'), Luke Hume on Chris Wyles off (74')
Canada
Try: Harry Jones (22', 43'), Aaron Carpenter (35'), James Pritchard (39'), Ciaran Hearn (40+1')
Con: James Pritchard 5/5 (24', 36', 40', 40+2', 44')
Pen: James Pritchard 0/1 (29'x)
YC: Phil Mack (9'), Jebb Sinclair (51')
S: Phil Mack off Gordon McRorie on (34'), Tyler Hotson off Jon Phelan on (41'), Nathan Hirayama on Jeff Hassler off (41'), Hubert Buydens on Andrew Tiedmann off (41'), Jason Marshall on Jake Ilnicki off (41'), Tyler Ardron off Kyle Gilmour on (56'), Ray Barwill on Aaron Carpenter off (63')
LittleGuy
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My Player ratings.......
1. Tieddemann - 5, Scrum was decent, but loose play wasn't very effective.
2. Carpenter - 7, Did well in set pieces finally finding his form at Hooker, went off tired with cramps.
3. Ilnicki - 4.5, Slightly less effective than Tieddemann, loose play was pretty poor.
4. Cudmore - 7.5, Did well and set up a brilliant score, could only play a half though at his age which hurt.
5. Hotson - 5.5, Workmanlike but nothing special pretty much how he's been all tour.
6. Sinclair - 5, A microcosm of Canada today, at times exceptional at other times poor, his card really hurt, getting a bad rep with referees.
7. Moonlight - 4, Seemingly couldn't tackle today, his worst game in Canadian colours easily.
8. Ardron - 5.5, Meh, 0-6 as Canada's captain though missed the final twenty today can't steady the ship as it starts to go down need a relaxing voie at captain.
9. Mack - 2, Utterly abysmal, only avoids a lower score as I'm not sure how much his knee effected his performance, When he went off hurt Canada started to play better, yellow card was very harsh though.
10. Jones - 9.5, As bad as Mack was Jones was good, outstanding performance nearly saved Canada single handidly.
11. Van De Merwe - 7, getting back to some old form, improved throughout the tour.
12. Braid - 3.5, Mackenzie needs to be in the lineup, Braid wasn't even an improvement over Blevins last week, this was a weak spot for Canada this June.
13. Hearn - 7, Not quite as good as he's been this last year but still solid.
14. Hassler - 5, Fairly anonymous after a great professional season I expected more from him in June.
15. Pritchard - 7.5, Looked like Pritch from four years ago at times, was one of the few calm performers as the ship started going down.
16. Buydens - 6, Played hard off the bench, not a lot to say really.
17. Barkwill - 6.5, Best game for him of the tour, looked good in loose play.
18. Marshall - 6, Similar to Buydens comments, maybe those two should have started in hindsight.
19. Phelan - 5, Was just there, didn't add anything or cause any problems.
20. Gilmour - 4.5, Made a silly knock on that ruined a great attack, wasn't expected to play till recently so can't be too harsh.
21. McRorie - 5, Upgrade over Mack, but another at times brilliant at times crap player for Canada today.
22. Hirayama - 1.5, Should never play XV's ever again, comically bad clearance kick gave the Americans the win, took a couple of penalties and was generally lost at sea.
23. Blevins - N/A. Didn't get on for a poor Braid, which says a lot for his June.
1. Tieddemann - 5, Scrum was decent, but loose play wasn't very effective.
2. Carpenter - 7, Did well in set pieces finally finding his form at Hooker, went off tired with cramps.
3. Ilnicki - 4.5, Slightly less effective than Tieddemann, loose play was pretty poor.
4. Cudmore - 7.5, Did well and set up a brilliant score, could only play a half though at his age which hurt.
5. Hotson - 5.5, Workmanlike but nothing special pretty much how he's been all tour.
6. Sinclair - 5, A microcosm of Canada today, at times exceptional at other times poor, his card really hurt, getting a bad rep with referees.
7. Moonlight - 4, Seemingly couldn't tackle today, his worst game in Canadian colours easily.
8. Ardron - 5.5, Meh, 0-6 as Canada's captain though missed the final twenty today can't steady the ship as it starts to go down need a relaxing voie at captain.
9. Mack - 2, Utterly abysmal, only avoids a lower score as I'm not sure how much his knee effected his performance, When he went off hurt Canada started to play better, yellow card was very harsh though.
10. Jones - 9.5, As bad as Mack was Jones was good, outstanding performance nearly saved Canada single handidly.
11. Van De Merwe - 7, getting back to some old form, improved throughout the tour.
12. Braid - 3.5, Mackenzie needs to be in the lineup, Braid wasn't even an improvement over Blevins last week, this was a weak spot for Canada this June.
13. Hearn - 7, Not quite as good as he's been this last year but still solid.
14. Hassler - 5, Fairly anonymous after a great professional season I expected more from him in June.
15. Pritchard - 7.5, Looked like Pritch from four years ago at times, was one of the few calm performers as the ship started going down.
16. Buydens - 6, Played hard off the bench, not a lot to say really.
17. Barkwill - 6.5, Best game for him of the tour, looked good in loose play.
18. Marshall - 6, Similar to Buydens comments, maybe those two should have started in hindsight.
19. Phelan - 5, Was just there, didn't add anything or cause any problems.
20. Gilmour - 4.5, Made a silly knock on that ruined a great attack, wasn't expected to play till recently so can't be too harsh.
21. McRorie - 5, Upgrade over Mack, but another at times brilliant at times crap player for Canada today.
22. Hirayama - 1.5, Should never play XV's ever again, comically bad clearance kick gave the Americans the win, took a couple of penalties and was generally lost at sea.
23. Blevins - N/A. Didn't get on for a poor Braid, which says a lot for his June.
I would generally agree with most of your ratings, LittleGuy. I don't think Mack was quite that bad, nor was Braid (I actually thought he played okay). Ilnicki, on the other hand, had a pretty poor game. Not as bad as Hirayama's performance, however. Unfortunately this test series might have created more questions than answers but for me there were a few self-evident facts:
1) Carpenter is the first choice hooker.
2) Jones is the first choice fly-half.
3) Inside centre remains a question mark.
4) Hirayama (Blevins too) should be dropped.
5) Something needs to be done regarding our second half choke jobs.
While I don't think it is self-evident, I am starting to wonder whether it was wise to appoint Ardron captain. Frankly, I think Carpenter could have kept it.
And since you mentioned Sinclair's yellow card, how the hell did Wyles not get one for that blatant obstruction on DTH? Maybe it's just sour grapes but it seemed like we were unnecessarily on the wrong side of a lot of calls during the three tests.
1) Carpenter is the first choice hooker.
2) Jones is the first choice fly-half.
3) Inside centre remains a question mark.
4) Hirayama (Blevins too) should be dropped.
5) Something needs to be done regarding our second half choke jobs.
While I don't think it is self-evident, I am starting to wonder whether it was wise to appoint Ardron captain. Frankly, I think Carpenter could have kept it.
And since you mentioned Sinclair's yellow card, how the hell did Wyles not get one for that blatant obstruction on DTH? Maybe it's just sour grapes but it seemed like we were unnecessarily on the wrong side of a lot of calls during the three tests.
LittleGuy
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You said it in November CDN_Rugby and while Duck said you were over the top at the time I kind of had my worries as well and it was reconfirmed this June...has Crowley peaked? Is it time to give some consideration of a possible review?
Some of the faults in Canada's structure seem to be now at a coaching level, poor player selections and strategies seem to be coming in. And as the RUCanadaRugby twitter account noted, it seems like the substitutions are used at odd times players get mass inserted into the field which breaks up all sorts of conntinuity instead of a trickle in of a player here or there. I don't think the late collapses are a fitness issue with so many more guys playing professional and the fact that some of them have happened against teams of similar Tier Two status, e.g. Romania and the United States. Some were due to bench depth, but that hasn't always been the case.
Good players were left behind this tour seemingly unexplained, and maybe Draggs was right away from home you need to get the draw instead of the win, a lot of Canada's moves lately seem to be in the "too cute" school of overthink.
Some of the faults in Canada's structure seem to be now at a coaching level, poor player selections and strategies seem to be coming in. And as the RUCanadaRugby twitter account noted, it seems like the substitutions are used at odd times players get mass inserted into the field which breaks up all sorts of conntinuity instead of a trickle in of a player here or there. I don't think the late collapses are a fitness issue with so many more guys playing professional and the fact that some of them have happened against teams of similar Tier Two status, e.g. Romania and the United States. Some were due to bench depth, but that hasn't always been the case.
Good players were left behind this tour seemingly unexplained, and maybe Draggs was right away from home you need to get the draw instead of the win, a lot of Canada's moves lately seem to be in the "too cute" school of overthink.
While I don't think I would go as far as suggesting a coaching review (I was just kind of thinking out loud when I suggested that), you're not kidding about random selections and arbitrary substitutions- subbing half the pack at halftime was a poor decision, as was bringing McRorie on against Scotland. I think we just need to take it on faith that this tour was probably about Crowley narrowing down key positions for the RWC squad (as the omissions of Mackenzie and Trainor suggest).
I'm not worried yet but if things keep going south this autumn I might start to panic. Either way though, let's take solace in the fact that no matter what the situation we won't be sinking lower than when we had two Pletch's and a Daypuck in the match day 23.
Given what we've seen prior to and during the June tests, I'm curious what everyone's 30 man squad will be for the RWC. Has anyone that you rated highly dropped from contention during the past month? If the squad needs to be named today I would go with...
1) Buydens
2) Carpenter
3) Marshall
4) Hotson
5) Cudmore
6) Sinclair
7) Moonlight
8) Ardron
9) Mack
10) Jones
11) Hassler
12) Trainor
13) Hearn
14) DTH
15) Pritchard
16) Barkwill
17) Tiedemann
18) Wooldridge
19) Phelan
20) Dala
21) McRorie
22) Mackenzie
23) Evans
24) Piffero
25) Ilnicki
26) Beukeboom
27) Kleeberger
28) White (or J. Mackenzie)
29) Braid
30) Paris
EDIT: Forgot Evans, needed to drop Underwood to make room for him.
1) Buydens
2) Carpenter
3) Marshall
4) Hotson
5) Cudmore
6) Sinclair
7) Moonlight
8) Ardron
9) Mack
10) Jones
11) Hassler
12) Trainor
13) Hearn
14) DTH
15) Pritchard
16) Barkwill
17) Tiedemann
18) Wooldridge
19) Phelan
20) Dala
21) McRorie
22) Mackenzie
23) Evans
24) Piffero
25) Ilnicki
26) Beukeboom
27) Kleeberger
28) White (or J. Mackenzie)
29) Braid
30) Paris
EDIT: Forgot Evans, needed to drop Underwood to make room for him.
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