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I really like attempts I see to quantify ruck effectiveness and involvement - there's another system I've seen recently, I think Murray Kinsella was using it but had taken it from another rugby blog? (I suspect @goodNumber10 will know of what I speak). Anyway, it was a little more sophisticated and seemed clearer but it's all interesting and definitely worth doing to improve understanding of the game. Rucking is easily the most significant area of the game where no statistical analysis exists in the mainstream (i.e., espn stats or the 6N website etc.) - you can see why, as it's obviously pretty subjective and a nightmare to collate / analyse but good to see someone having a go.
 
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Every Time Ref said:
I really like attempts I see to quantify ruck effectiveness and involvement - there's another system I've seen recently, I think Murray Kinsella was using it but had taken it from another rugby blog? (I suspect @goodNumber10 will know of what I speak). Anyway, it was a little more sophisticated and seemed clearer but it's all interesting and definitely worth doing to improve understanding of the game. Rucking is easily the most significant area of the game where no statistical analysis exists in the mainstream (i.e., espn stats or the 6N website etc.) - you can see why, as it's obviously pretty subjective and a nightmare to collate / analyse but good to see someone having a go.
Click to expand...
@Peat is your man for this ruck stats...
 
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Every Time Ref said:
I really like attempts I see to quantify ruck effectiveness and involvement - there's another system I've seen recently, I think Murray Kinsella was using it but had taken it from another rugby blog? (I suspect @goodNumber10 will know of what I speak). Anyway, it was a little more sophisticated and seemed clearer but it's all interesting and definitely worth doing to improve understanding of the game. Rucking is easily the most significant area of the game where no statistical analysis exists in the mainstream (i.e., espn stats or the 6N website etc.) - you can see why, as it's obviously pretty subjective and a nightmare to collate / analyse but good to see someone having a go.
Click to expand...

The system was pioneered by Demented Mole.

http://dementedmole.com/
 
Interesting analysis here from Aus site The Roar about, essentially, new ways of cheating which are emerging, as well as trends in referees' interpretation of certain things:

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/02/2...retations-influence-the-2015-rugby-world-cup/

Interesting take on what he calls the "rounshouse kick", adn I have to say I agree. Also an interesting last paragraph on refereeing:

I was once told by an old Transvaal referee, that he would pick two aspects for the breakdown scrum or mauls in a particular match. According to him it is impossible for a referee to observe and assess the full law book at the close combat sectors and depending on the teams playing, these would vary from match to match.

In my view it is the team that is the smartest in exploiting the obvious inability for referees to observe every tactic and infringement that can be employed at any given time and therefor outfox the officials that will ultimately be the most successful.
Click to expand...

I wonder how true that is? Would be interested to hear any refs' take on the issue

- - - Updated - - -

goodNumber10 said:
@Peat is your man for this ruck stats...
Click to expand...

Ah OK, thank you...

big ginger 8 said:
The system was pioneered by Demented Mole.

http://dementedmole.com/
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the guy
 
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Every Time Ref said:
Interesting analysis here from Aus site The Roar about, essentially, new ways of cheating which are emerging, as well as trends in referees' interpretation of certain things:

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/02/2...retations-influence-the-2015-rugby-world-cup/

Interesting take on what he calls the "rounshouse kick", adn I have to say I agree. Also an interesting last paragraph on refereeing:
Click to expand...

I like the ROAR but this raised a wry smile:
One aspect that is quite different between the Southern Hemisphere and Northern Hemisphere is the fact that the Northern Hemisphere players 'flop' more readily around the ruck area, something they seem to get away with, thus creating a bottleneck and slow ball.
Being off their feet does not however refrain them from continuing to spoil quick ball.
Click to expand...

I was just watching the last weekends super15's and the first man into the contact is off his feet everysingle time - it's first man to ground without fail and the ref does nothing.

It's much worse than here - but either way it's incredibly frustrating to watch.
 
Yeah there were a couple he identified as specifically "northern hemisphere" or "European" crimes which raised eyebrows a little! I also enjoyed the A lot of good observations though
 
Every Time Ref said:
Yeah there were a couple he identified as specifically "northern hemisphere" or "European" crimes which raised eyebrows a little! I also enjoyed the A lot of good observations though
Click to expand...

yeah, it's an interesting article. i like the Roar and I like the stuff that's coming u on GreenandGold Rugby (but obviosuly i have a bit of an interest there).

Nice to see people taking the analysis process away from the papers.
 
I'm not too sure about the analysis about early shove in one scrum then cheat after that about the ref favoring one side especially since the Steve Walsh Vs.England debacle. I think refs look more at 50/50 decisions these days and give them to the team who was pushing the other backwards ground or distribute them out evenly if he can't decide on that particular scrum who was in the ascendency (usually whoever had the put in). In turn I'm noticing teams which are dominating scrum time trying to make sure it is pushed straight and backwards trying to get penalties for collapsing or standing up rather than playing too much of silly buggers. It's not always the case but I think it was more true of a year or so ago than it is today.

Maybe it's different in the SH?
 
As noted, DM's come up with the only real system for measuring rucks in public domain (I'm sure the in-house analysts have their own way of looking at it which they will not reveal), and Kinsella's improving on it. I have to say, it is a right slog to get it right - you genuinely have to wonder about DM's normalcy. My hopes of getting something out are now sliding to having everything done post 6N, but it will happen.
 
Peat said:
As noted, DM's come up with the only real system for measuring rucks in public domain (I'm sure the in-house analysts have their own way of looking at it which they will not reveal), and Kinsella's improving on it. I have to say, it is a right slog to get it right - you genuinely have to wonder about DM's normalcy. My hopes of getting something out are now sliding to having everything done post 6N, but it will happen.
Click to expand...

Just out of interest, how long does it take to analyse one game, on average? Like, how abnormal are we talking here, exactly ... ?
 
Those rucking stats for the England match are absolutely insane :0
 
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