Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by Nutrioutlet, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. Nutrioutlet

    Nutrioutlet Guest

    Hello to you all.

    I am Nutrioutlet and I work as a nutrition and sports supplement advisor for

    In the next few weeks you will be seeing a lot of really great changes to their website as it becomes more sport involved and will have its very own rugby advice section.

    Until then I am here to offer my assistance for all the members of the Rugby forum, with any nutrition or sports supplementation questions. My background is in strength sports and have won many national and international titles in that area.

    Hope to hear from you all soon

    Nutrioutlet :cheers:
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  3. getofmeland

    getofmeland Guest

    This is a certified Rugby Forum Sponsored Post
  4. OSU Blue

    OSU Blue Guest

    Actually, I've had a few questions and have been waiting for something like this. First off, through your company do you sell supplements? This usually has tremendous impact on the ansewrs I receive. I've lifted weights for several years now, and continually hear about the new 'best thing on the market,' but personally don't buy it. I'm a fairly lean 6' 180lbs ( about 2m 83 kgs or something), so at the moment I'm trying to put on muscle weight. I eat a high calorie, carbohydrate and protein diet. I drink a protein shake after workouts along with creatine, and have had pretty good results. My question has more to do with other supplements such as NO-Xlode or OnCycle OffCycle, etc. Do any of these or even simple products like glutamine work? I know what they claim to do, both chemically and physically, but does it really work or is it just a bunch of biology mumbo-jumbo to get you to buy it? Which products do you suggest? I had a friend on another blog page tell me he was in the business for a while and it's basically all crap, and to stick with the creatine, protein and multi-vitamin. If this isn't your specialty or if it doesn't fall into a nutritionist's realm, I'll understand, but my buddies have always been into this, and have become quite big, but I don't know what's genetic, what's done by just the protein, etc. Thanks for any help with this topic.

  5. Nutrioutlet

    Nutrioutlet Guest

    Hello Brett

    Yes, Nutrioutlet is a supplement company. We sell supplements from manufacturers like Muscletech, Labrada, Universal Nutrition ect...

    In relation to the New best thing, I can understand your attitude towards this. Unfortunately what happens in the supplement industry is that it can become very "marketing" orientated. This is sad for sports nutritionists, because supplements are beneficial to athletes - but it is a case of chosing the correct supplements for your body and your sport. There are many supplements that can be very beneficial to Rugby players, and some that would be a waste of your time and money to buy and take :)

    I am employed by Nutrioutlet as a nutrition and supplement advisor. I have used sports supplements successfully in my own career as a professional strength athlete and had many gains from them. What really annoys me though, is that some supplement companies push you into taking supplements as the answer to all of your problems. :%#%#: Alot of supplements can be excellent and complement good training, good nutrition and a good lifestyle. All of these are as important as each other in your quest to becoming a successful athlete.

    I can most definately vouch for glutamine - especially for the Rugby Player. Glutamine is 1 of the 11 non-essential amino acids found in the body. Non-essential does not mean non-important but rather that the body can produce glutamine by itself.

    The reason that i would recommend supplementing with glutamine is that under normal circumstances, the body is able to produce more than enough glutamine to replace depleted loads - but - during times of high stress (i.e. weight training and/or a rugby match) the body is unable to keep up with the amount of production needed to replenish thus being very beneficial to replace lost stores through supplementation.

    Glutamine increases the hydration state of your muscle cells. This hydration can change rapidly and once the cells are depleted - that is when they enter the catabolic state. Glutamine is also responsible for promoting the assimilation of nutrients, regulates protein synthesis, stimulates growth-hormone production and enhances the immune system.

    When looking to build muscle - glutamine plays a huge role in this process as it is a nitrogen donor - meaning that it moves nitrogen around in the body to where it is needed. A positive nitrogen balance is necessary in the effort to gain muscle mass.

    Glutamine also plays a part in the Krebs cycle as a non-carbohydrate source of energy. Glutamine converts into glutamate and produces ATP which is an energy molecule. With adequate amounts of glutamine in the body through diet or supplementation, little or no muscle is broken down to provide glucose. Having too little glutamine in your body results in muscle atrophy.

    The list of benefits by supplementing with glutamine is great. Supplementing glutamine means that you are able to monitor how much glutamine you are getting into your body. i.e. a dosage of 2-3g post workout builds protein, repairs and builds muscle and can induce the growth hormone levels in your body.

    Hospitals are even using high levels of glutamine to treat patients with HIV and burn victims (also in some cancer patients although this is controversial) and is also used in the treatment of Crohn's disease. There is an air of caution over diabetics using glutamine as they metabolize glutamine abnormally.

    Finally, glutamine is also a mood elevator and is being researched with its regards to the positive effects on neurodegenerative diseases. It has been shown to increase mental performance and also helps with long and short term memory.

    There are still many ongoing studies regarding the effects of glutamine, but up until now it has shown no side effects and can be of great benefit to athletes, especially rugby players. :)

    The list of supplements I would advise a Rugby Player to take are:

    Whey Protein
    Vitamins and Minerals
    Joint supports (Omegas 3-6-9, and glucosamine)

    Other things that are beneficial are:
    Caffiene - pre workout
    Energy drinks
    Protein bars (Anything labrada tastes unbelievably good)

    Then there are other supplements that can assist in specific things, that I can explain at a later date. For example, a great supplement to assist in fat burning is L-Carnitine. Taking BCAA's are also highly effective in muscle building. When you are wanting to gain weight - muscle gainers are highly effective and help you get in the calories you need without eating constantly throughout the day.

    Those who meet their daily calories requirements and follow a good diet will see the effects of correct nutrition. Meeting daily requirements as a rugby player can be quite hard, which is why many pro's opt for supplements, an good and easy way of measuring what is going into your body.

    Just to give you an idea of your daily calorie intake:
    As a 6' 180lb Rugby Player your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) assumimg you are 10 -14% bodyfat (you said your were fairly lean) = 1846 calories

    Lets say you are Moderately active throughout the day which means your Daily Calorie Expenditure is = 3045

    This is the number that you should work from when wanting to gain or lose muscle mass. Mainting this amount of calories each day will mean that your muscle mass amount and body fat % will stay the same at this activity level.

    Hope that you find this of interest

  6. Nutrioutlet

    Nutrioutlet Guest

    Hello again Brett

    Answer to your question regarding products like NO-xplode and pre-workout performance forumla's:

    NO-xplode gives you approx 1g of creatine per scoop, 100mg of caffiene per scoop and they recommend you test your sensitivity level before taking the maximum dosage of 3 scoops. It also contains lactic acid buffers which can be highly effective.

    As for the addition of N02 supplementation, it is purported to increase NO production in the body. NO2 is nitrogen dioxide NO is nitric oxide. Nitric oxide is produced in the endothelium of arterioles. After production, nitric oxide promotes smooth muscle relaxation in the arteriole, which results in vasodilation and an increase in blood flow. Current speculation is that muscular contraction results in increased production of nitric oxide, which promotes vasodilation in arterioles leading to working muscles. Blood vessels transport oxygen and nutrients to muscles and carry waste products away for muscular growth, repair and recovery.

    The products that claim to increase NO are the amino acids and are not proven on a cellular level - although BSN products seem to be very popular with athletes and my suggestion would be to try it out and see if it suits you!

    I will ask HQ if we have any sample packets left for you.

    As for pre-workout performance drinks, something I really would recommend you to try is the Labrada SuperCharge.

    I have tried and testing most of Lee Labrada's products and they are good. SuperCharge really does improve your workout and many of my athlete friends agree :) As far as I am aware this product does not contain any NO, but does contain products that can really benefit your training like; caffiene, arginine, taurine, glutamine, creatine and a combo of natural growth factors that can increase your testosterone levels - and it tastes nice too.

    I do have to add though about Labrada's protein bars, if you are looking for something that tastes good, that is a healthy snack with good ingredients and can substitute a mars, snickers or whatever it is you are wanting substituted- then you will not believe how good this guys bars are!! I may sound a little excited about these things, but believe me, when you have been eating what actually tastes similar to cardboard then get given one of these little beauties its like a golden moment hahaha!! Just had to add that in there!! :blink: :bravo: :cheers:

  7. OSU Blue

    OSU Blue Guest


    Your posts were very helpful, thank you. Following up on your first post, you've talked me into glutamine, but do you suggest just L-Glutamin or something called N-Acertyl-Glutamine that I came across, which is just supposed to be a version of L-Glutamin that better delivers the benefits? Does glutamine need a 'carrier' such as sugar to be transported into the body and blood stream (as I was told creatine does)?

    Also, what exactly is ZMA? I have never heard of it.

    And finally, Omega 3-6-9 is just flaxseed oil, right? Should this be taken with glucosamine or as an either/or thing?

    Thanks for all your help, I'll go as deep into this as my wallet allows, and tell you what I think in a few weeks.

  8. O'Rothlain

    O'Rothlain Guest

    ZMA is great stuff. It's been several years since I took it last. But essentially it's Zinc and Magnesium. If I remember right, you take it before you go to sleep (like 15-30 min.). It helps you rest and recover. It helps boost your bodies ability to produce testosterone (as zinc is a natural aphrodesiac for men...all the big foods that have classically been aphrodesiacs are high in zinc). Anyway, I took it when I was going through a surgery recovery (right shoulder) and surpassed everyone else in my rehab. Good stuff.

    By the way OSU you still play for OSU?
  9. Nutrioutlet

    Nutrioutlet Guest

    Thank you Brett - here are some answers to you questions.

    L-Glutamine v N-Acetyl-Glutamine (NAG)

    NAG is the acetylated version of L-glutamine. (Acetylation describes a reaction that introduces an acetyl functional group into an organic compound) NAG is more stable in water than regular glutamine and apparantly metabollically more efficient at delivering the biological effects of glutamine. This has been tested and proven by Abbott Labs using a study with pigs. They concluded that N-Acetyl-Glutamine appeared to be effective form of glutamine fortification. L-Glutamine is still an excellent product and should not be sniffed. I would suggest you could choose either products depending on your budget. :) As far as I am aware Glutamine does not need any carrier.


    Zinc monomethionine aspartate and Magnesium Aspartate, is a combination of Zinc, Magnesium and Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine). Quite righty stated by O'Rothlain, you should take ZMA before you sleep. NEVER take ZMA with calcium i.e cottage cheese or milk as this will inhibit the absorbtion of the zinc.
    What ZMA can do, is raise your testosterone and IGF1 levels which can aid your body to gain muscle size and strength.
    When you are training hard, taking extra vitamins and minerals is a must must must anyway due to the mass depletion of them during your training (especially the water soluble nutrients) Adding ZMA before you sleep has helped many athletes (especially in strength sports) increase muscle size and strength ect... (Also adding extra vitamins and minerals to your routine can make your body feel better in general and reduce cramps ect...)
    The proportions normally used in ZMA products are 20-30mg Zinc, 400-500mg Magnesium and 10mg B6. These variations vary accross different brands.

    I wouldn't recomend this product for women as the increase of IGF1 and testosterone can be quite significant.

    Let me know if you would like any more info on ZMA - I will be happy to write more about it :)

    Omega 3-6-9

    Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids are "polyunsaturated fatty acids" and are classed as Essential Fatty Acids (EFA's). Omega 9 is a (mono) "unsaturated fatty acid" and is not classed as "essential" as the body can produce Omega 9 through unsaturated fat. Omega 3 comes mainly from oily fish, hemp oil or flax oil. Omega 6 can be found in products like borage oil. Both Omega 3 and 6 can be found in; fish, shellfish, flaxseed (linseed), hemp oil, soya oil, canola (rapeseed oil), chia seeds, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, leafy vegetables and walnuts. Omega 9 can be found in oleic acid (main component of oilve oil), rapeseed, avocados, almonds, wallflower and mustard seed.

    Flaxseed oil itself is an Omega 3 rich EFA. It also contains magnesium and potassium (fibre in the seeds themselves). Also a good source of the B Vitamins, protein and zinc. Lots of studies have shown that flaxseed oil can reduce pain, inflammation and swelling particulary for those with arthritis with other health benefits too! :)

    Omega 3-6 with or without Omega 9 is a very good supplement to take for everyone. Rugby players will find the benefits endless. Improved oxygen and nutrient delivery to muscles and other tissues because of reduced blood viscosity, Improved fitness (aerobic) due to the enhancement of oxygen delivery, Improves release of somatotrophin (growth hormone) after exercise - which can have an anabolic effect and improve you recovery time. It can reduce inflammation caused by muscle fatigue (also increasing recovery time) and possible prevent tissue inflammation.

    I would recommend taking Omega 3-6-9 sometimes called EFA formula as the benefits of EFA's are really excellent, this can be taken alongside your glutamine supplement.

    Hope that this helps

    Nutrioutlet :cheers:
  10. OSU Blue

    OSU Blue Guest

    Thanks for all your help, you answered all my questions fully and effectively. I'll let you know if anything else pops into my head.


  11. Quite clear and simple. All supplements should be banned.

    Or even better, ridiculed out of town.

    The average player is already too fit for his own good. And the morbid, neurotic pursuit of more power is little short of fascist perfectionism.
  12. melon

    melon Guest

    How can someone be too fit for their own good? Does it harm them in some way? Being fit suggests being in satisfying physical (and mental I suppose) shape.

    Being very fit will suggest the person is in peak physical fitness. Nothing wrong with that at all. That is exactly what we should strive for. That is when we function out our best.

    I have no idea what you're talking about at all.

    There's nothing wrong with trying to be perfect...the only way to ever achieve anything to a high degree is to always strive for perfection. Whilst its almost impossible to attain, the mere pursuit of it is what drives the human race.
  13. OSU Blue

    OSU Blue Guest

    Quite clear and simple. All supplements should be banned.

    Or even better, ridiculed out of town.

    The average player is already too fit for his own good. And the morbid, neurotic pursuit of more power is little short of fascist perfectionism. [/b][/quote]
    uhh.. what??
  14. goranski

    goranski Guest

  15. BLR

    BLR Guest

    Perfection is subjective my friend, the image of perfection comes and goes like the fashions. ;)
  16. bacon

    bacon Guest

    ok i've never taken anything though i've been tempted and many of my mates do all kinds of stuff, but i don't really know much about suppliments- so is creatine really as bad as he hype suggests? i'm sure the questions been asked before but i can't find a decent answer.
    we've all heard the rumours about penis shinkage :)o ) but are there any long term effects?
    Is it the same as eating a couple of rare steaks?

    any answers would be great
  17. OSU Blue

    OSU Blue Guest

    if you're just asking about creatine, ive never heard of any negative side effects at all. especially not the penis shrinkage thing.. ive been taking it for years with no problems whatsoever.. im also not sure what you mean by being the same as a couple of rare steaks.. and out of curiosity, where are you getting your information?? more important than any supplement or workout is what you eat, though. im just now figuring this out first hand..
  18. coyley

    coyley Guest

    As said above, the most important thing is what you eat and how hard you train. Anything else in moderation should be alright.
  19. bacon

    bacon Guest

    most of the information is locker room bullsh*t so i wanted to know if any of it was actually true. seems most isn't. B)
    as for the steak rumour apparently rare steak has naturally produced creatine (not to mention lots of protien) in it so it's a natural source. as i said originally i don't know much about this at all and most of what i do know is hearsay.
    thanks for clearing it up for me
  20. superlyduper

    superlyduper Guest

    what would you recommend for a player trying to bulk up? i'm worried about overtraining, i'm at the gym 5 days a week, and eat protein till i'm bloated. how much should I eat on my off days? how should i schedule in cardio workout in relation to my lifting schedules? also, should I be taking any supplments (besides whey protein)??

  21. OSU Blue

    OSU Blue Guest

    5 days at the gym is unlikely to be overtraining.. as long as your muscles get the proper amount of rest, you'll be fine.. i spend about 1.5-2 hours a day of lifting, 5-6 days a week, and do not feel over-worked, just for reference.. the thing about bulking is diet. tons of calories, carbs, and protein. about 1.5 grams of protein per pound you weigh per day is what ive come across as the most common recipe (ex. if you weigh 160lb, you should be taking in 240 grams of protein per day).

    i worked out for about 4 years with decent results, but sorta plateaud (sp?) at 185lbs and rarely moved up in weight on my workouts. this semester after a year and a half off, i decided i was going to get into it seriously with a strict diet and gym time. ive gone from 173lbs to 190 in less than 3 months, and it's muscle. in some workouts i lift more than i ever have. i increase weight in almost every workout either weekly or every other week. im not bragging, im just trying to get across that eating right is what will determine your success.. if you read through this entire post, you'll learn a lot about supplementing. ask after you read.. ive taken meal-replacement shakes and creatine with good results, i just started on glutamine, glucosamine, and omega 3, 6, and 9, all with no complaints as of yet..

    i eat the same on my days off as i do on my workout days, your body is still rebuilding and healing muscle tissue.. i consider cardio as independent from my lifting, so one doesn't affect the other. except i wont run the same day i do legs, or i wont row the same day i do back... good luck.. let me know if i didnt answer something well enough..
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