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Saracens call for salary cap to be scrapped

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Craig's a weird one - he was very recently saying he thought the cap was "an important regulator".

I hope Bath aren't (i hope no-one is) but I wouldn't be that surprised to see that they are.
 
Weren't there rumours that Bath were over the salary cap a few years back? Seem to recall Olly Barkley suddenly leaving soon afterwards.
 
Holy crap. This did seem somewhat out of the blue.

If they have been found to be cheating the cap, I hope they are crippled by the punishment.

Sarries have had a strong South African presence for a long time. They could have been cheating the cap for years.
 
You do have to fear what the Top 14 will be like in a few years though.

When clubs like Montpellier, Racing Metro, Grenoble, Bordeaux, Stade, Lyon get their act together and start to run themselves on and off the field like Toulouse, Clermont and Toulon...
They've got th economic potential to literally poo all over any club or union in the world.

I think that the Premiership and Saracens need to think how they are going to achieve growth for the whole of English club rugby, doing away with the salary cap is not the way though imo.

They are competing with French cuba who can for the most part genuinely afford much higher salaries because of the higher levels of investment, revenue, market and general interest in French club rugby these days, It is very big. To just stick your head in the sand and say everything will be ok is not the answer.
 
psychic duck said:
I think we can work out at least two of the teams who want the salary cap ditched ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...-alleged-breaches-salary-cap-regulations.html
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You could not make it up!!! So Sarries are allegedly breaking the salary cap, get caught and spin the story of major backing to remove any cap in order to clear themselves!!

Griffiths really is a work of art but must have the backing of the equally despicable Wray and his SA cohorts presumably?!!
 
Kind of obvious why this has come up now then. Sarries engaged in some sabre rattling because they're being investigated and are trying to make out that they have a majority of clubs supporting them. Hardly a surprising move.

Like rats, I hope neither team are over the cap but I'm aware that is quite naive.
 
Id listen to sarries if they were a real rugby club but there not. They are just a joke.

The salary cap is what keeps rugby interesting and fair. Sarries make a massive loss every year and should t be allowed to carry on that way.
 
Patchey said:
Kind of obvious why this has come up now then. Sarries engaged in some sabre rattling because they're being investigated and are trying to make out that they have a majority of clubs supporting them. Hardly a surprising move.

Like rats, I hope neither team are over the cap but I'm aware that is quite naive.
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But it's a rather dumb move! :p Griffiths has been clearly disproven on a number of claims he has made. He has now brought himself and his club into further disrepute. It also appears to be the cry of the guilty if you ask me.

The funny side to this is that his lies weren't even convincing or plausible. He's like that kid that tells people he didn't eat the chocolate, when it is covered around his face!



Best thing Healey has ever written/said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ial-for-Premiership-England-and-the-fans.html


Sale confirm they support the salary cap:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30559910


So the confirmations so far are Quins, Glos, Sale, Wasps and Exeter are against Griffiths, with Bath and Saints on the fence.
 
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We've confirmed or smith did in an interview. Bet you the Tigers are with griffiths.
 
Irishkid said:
We've confirmed or smith did in an interview. Bet you the Tigers are with griffiths.
Click to expand...

Tigers would be screwed if the cap went, unless we sell to a suger daddy which nearly everyone is against.

Raise it an extra million we could mange but scrap it and it would mean massive changes.

Vermuellen a done deal to bath apparently.
 
Tigs Man said:
Tigers would be screwed if the cap went, unless we sell to a suger daddy which nearly everyone is against.
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I'm not so sure - Tigers are probably the biggest name in rugby, and they have very very strong ties to some big sponsors. I could easily see Caterpillar stumping up the pennies for a player or two.
 
j'nuh said:
But it's a rather dumb move! :p Griffiths has been clearly disproven on a number of claims he has made. He has now brought himself and his club into further disrepute. It also appears to be the cry of the guilty if you ask me.

The funny side to this is that his lies weren't even convincing or plausible. He's like that kid that tells people he didn't eat the chocolate, when it is covered around his face!



Best thing Healey has ever written/said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ial-for-Premiership-England-and-the-fans.html


Sale confirm they support the salary cap:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30559910


So the confirmations so far are Quins, Glos, Sale, Wasps and Exeter are against Griffiths, with Bath and Saints on the fence.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, it has backfired completely! But it was sort of the logical thing to do from Sarries POV. They must have known they were being investigated and would probably be fined. By attacking the cap before the investigation became public they were clearly trying to turn the debate into one over the cap itself, not their all edges breach. Hasn't worked but it was their only option apart from just standing back and getting wacked in the press when it went public.


Another thing, why the hell would Chiefs or Pests oppose the cap??
 
Salary cap will result in fewer English players in Aviva Premiership. This would (like in football) handicap our national team. Scouts will go straight to Southern Hemisphere schools and parachute players from there into the English clubs. Please let's not go down the football route.
 
j'nuh said:
But it's a rather dumb move! :p Griffiths has been clearly disproven on a number of claims he has made. He has now brought himself and his club into further disrepute. It also appears to be the cry of the guilty if you ask me.

The funny side to this is that his lies weren't even convincing or plausible. He's like that kid that tells people he didn't eat the chocolate, when it is covered around his face!



Best thing Healey has ever written/said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ial-for-Premiership-England-and-the-fans.html


Sale confirm they support the salary cap:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30559910


So the confirmations so far are Quins, Glos, Sale, Wasps and Exeter are against Griffiths, with Bath and Saints on the fence.
Click to expand...

Can say with certainty that we'd be in support of the Salary Cap, we'd be in the discussion certainly, as we know first hand how out of control finances can get.
 
Wendigo7 said:
Must be what it's like to be an All Black Fan.
Click to expand...

... Are yes, but the expectation of winning, is not the certainty of winning, is it :) ... I wouldn't say that "expectation" replaces "joy" either :)

On the subject though, scraping the salary cap would be a huge mistake for all of the reasons mentioned - it just wouldn't be good for the majority of the English clubs, or for English Rugby as a whole.

While I enjoy watching the odd Barbarians or World XV game, I'm not sure I really need to see it, week in, week out, in club form, ala Toulon
 
Tony Manx said:
Maybe about the Aviva but he is talking through his posterior and showing a surprising ignorance about the Top 14.......
Click to expand...

I don't see what's wrong with what he has said . In fairness he did say it was a subjective opinion and one that i share with him in all honesty
 
Griffiths is just another self-interested club executive, like Wray and the other Muppets; nothing new to see here then. Its not about "growing the game" it about growing two or three clubs at the expense of the rest.

Removal of the Salary cap would lead directly to what you have in English football; three or four clubs (with most of the best players in the league) being the only teams with any realistic chance of winning it, while the rest are reduced to either competing for a spot in the Champions League or staving off relegation so they they can come back do it all over again next year.

Unrestricted salaries is the path to madness. Sportsmen are already paid far more than their real worth for playing sport. This would just exacerbate the situation but the worst thing about it is that the ordinary fan will be the ones who have to pay for this through increased ticket prices and increased television subscriptions.

ETA: Anyone who thinks that salary caps don't give an even competition needs only look at AFL (Aussie Rules). Of the eighteen clubs that comprise this competition, fourteen have competed in a Grand Final in the last 20 years and eleven of them have won it. Richmond and the Western Bulldogs are the only long standing clubs that have failed to make a final in that time, the other two are expansion clubs Gold Coast (2011) and Western Sydney (2012).
 
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smartcooky said:
the ordinary fan will be the ones who have to pay for this through increased ticket prices and increased television subscriptions.
Click to expand...
It's already happening. My Leinster season ticket increased in price by around €30. I now need a 2nd subscription to an extra pay TV channel to catch all the European Champions Cup which I didn't have to do last year. The Pro 12 was exclusively on terrestrial TV last season but now a pay TV subscription is needed to watch all games. Thanks Bruce Craig, Mark McCafferty, Nigel Wray et al! Fans are being shat on by administrators here and it's about time we rose up.

What we need is a new vision for rugby in Europe and not to follow the flawed soccer model.
 
snoopy snoopy dog dog said:
It's already happening. My Leinster season ticket increased in price by around €30. I now need a 2nd subscription to an extra pay TV channel to catch all the European Champions Cup which I didn't have to do last year. The Pro 12 was exclusively on terrestrial TV last season but now a pay TV subscription is needed to watch all games. Thanks Bruce Craig, Mark McCafferty, Nigel Wray et al! Fans are being shat on by administrators here and it's about time we rose up.

What we need is a new vision for rugby in Europe and not to follow the flawed soccer model.
Click to expand...


100%.

As a counterpoint to my earlier stats regarding AFL, look at the EPL, where there is no salary cap, money is no object, and players command outrageous, out of control salaries for kicking a piece of inflated synthetic leather around a paddock...

In the last 20 years, only 5 of 20 teams have won it; ManU, ManC Chelsea, Arsenal and Blackburn Rovers (that was 20 years ago and they aren't even in the EPL any more). Since the EPL doesn't have a grand final, if we extend this to include the runners up (in keeping with "making finals", only three additional teams are added, Liverpool, Aston Villa and Newcastle United.... no team outside those eight have finished top two for 20 years

How boring and one-dimensional is this? The football matches might be interesting (for football fans, personally the game itself leaves me cold), but as a competition, its a borefest. Do English rugby fans really want one ot two teams permanently dominating the Aviva. Do they really want teams like the Toulon International Barbarians to be winning Premierships. All I can say as a Kiwi rugby fan is, thank God that doesn't go on here.
 
smartcooky said:
as a competition, its a borefest.
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There are millions of people across Britain who would bitterly disagree on that point.

You only have to look at this season with West Ham Fourth at Christmas and the fact that Man City only returned to the top flight in 2001-02 as proof that teams can be built if finances can be managed. You also have the excitment of small teams being able to work their way to the top which is something sorely lacking from a lot of other sports (especially SH Union, League and AFL (iirc)).

I don't agree with the salary cap being scrapped in English Rugby but you absolutely have to look at these things in isolation and not by comparing it to other sports that have their own unique structure and fandom.

Do agree EG is a smary g*t though :)

My gut feeling is that Bath or Sarries being found guilty and docked a horrendous amount of points would be hugely disasterous for English rugby, love them or hate them Sarries have done a lot of good for the game in England, I would argue they've raised the profile a lot both commercially and within their local community - they've worked hard at being local club (if that makes sense).
 
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I think you could even argue that the Aviva Premiership isn't that competitive though. You have to go back to 2010-11 to find a year when the playoffs weren't Sarries, Leicester, Northampton and Quins. And even then it was only Gloucester in for Quins.
 
The premiership is decently competitive... removing or even slightly increasing the cap would make it less so.
The fact that some teams cannot spend to the current cap means that is inevitable.
 
ratsapprentice said:
The premiership is decently competitive... removing or even slightly increasing the cap would make it less so.
The fact that some teams cannot spend to the current cap means that is inevitable.
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yeah, it's pretty decent to be fair, though even as it is is we're getting a haves and have nots situation.... Wasps have got a great new stadium, Bath HAVE NOT :p
 
goodNumber10 said:
There are millions of people across Britain who would bitterly disagree on that point.
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I wonder how much that says about football fans. Realistically there is NO chance that a team outside of the Manchesters, Chelsea and maybe Arsenal will win the league this year.

(NOTE: I have to admit to a fair bit of bias here because I generally find football tedious, about as exciting as watching grass grow. My perception of it is that it involves kicking the ball around until you lose it.)


goodNumber10 said:
You only have to look at this season with West Ham Fourth at Christmas and the fact that Man City only returned to the top flight in 2001-02 as proof that teams can be built if finances can be managed.
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But that is just the problem, with no salary cap, there is no control. A multi-millionaire can come out of the woodwork and buy a Premiership by pouring truckloads of money into a club, which is exactly what happened with Man City.

A salary cap levels the playing field. Take a look at the ITM Cup this year, the finalist were Tasman and Taranaki, neither of those teams had ever won the National Provincial Premiership before, and neither team are Super Rugby Franchise bases (who finished third, fourth, second to last, and last this season; Wellington is relegated to the Championship to join Otago who finished second to last there this season). That is what a salary cap can do.
 
smartcooky said:
A salary cap levels the playing field. Take a look at the ITM Cup this year, the finalist were Tasman and Taranaki, neither of those teams had ever won the National Provincial Premiership before, and neither team are Super Rugby Franchise bases (who finished third, fourth, second to last, and last this season; Wellington is relegated to the Championship to join Otago who finished second to last there this season). That is what a salary cap can do.
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yes, i know what a salary cap is SC, i'm agreeing with you that losing one is a bad thing... I'm just saying i tink the pyramid system of rugby and football leagues in the UK is better than S15/ITM etc.... just for creating excitment.
 

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