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Second Test: Australia vs. British and Irish Lions (29/06/13)

Phillips shouldn't have started even if he was fit.

He was poor last week, and was also awful against Australia last year for Wales. Seems to be a theme he doesn't seem to play well against them.
 
Who better to come on and change a game than the most lethal finisher in NH rugby over the past couple of seasons?

Someone who might actually create a chance rather than someone who will just finish one.

Changing games =/= Finishing moves. [At least, not when you've 14 other world class players on your team.]



More generally: Not seeing the logic of Tom Croft. At all. Under what circumstances will he come on as a tactical substitution rather than straight injury replacement? Only if Warburton is injured, SOB goes to 7 and then Lydiate or Heaslip have to come on.

In which case, Richie Gray would do a better job at 6 than Croft would do at 4/5. [hell, Richie Gray might do a better job at 6 than Croft if you just keep your blindside tight in.]


Bowe can play full back - but I'd be far more comfortable with Hogg or Zebo as the sub than Cuthbert - who I really don't rate highly at all. A straight line runner who is decent off someone's shoulder, but that is about it. His finishing is mostly off the back of others' hard work.
 
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I think it is a shame for Manu, injury seems to have cost him because (for me anyway) the centre pair I wanted to see was Manu and BOD. Glad Phillips is gone from the 23, last week he was terrible. Also nice to see Bowe in for Cuthbert and I agree about Croft, either start him or drop him. A bit pointless to have him on the bench alongside SOB.
 
More generally: Not seeing the logic of Tom Croft. At all. Under what circumstances will he come on as a tactical substitution rather than straight injury replacement? Only if Warburton is injured, SOB goes to 7 and then Lydiate or Heaslip have to come on.
Reasons why you might want to bring him on: the lineout is creaking, too much possession is being lost in the backline, hitting in the tight isn't working, he's a strong and fast carrier to bring on, the backline are struggling defensively etc. In fact, as a try-scoring forward who'll provide more in the loose, perhaps it could be argued that he's a perfect game changer.

And there are plenty of ways to accommodate Croft and SOB. Since Warburton isn't likely to come off, either Croft goes into the second row and SOB replaces Lydiate, or Croft comes in at 6 and SOB replaces Heaslip.
 
Reasons why you might want to bring him on: the lineout is creaking, too much possession is being lost in the backline, hitting in the tight isn't working, he's a strong and fast carrier to bring on, the backline are struggling defensively etc. In fact, as a try-scoring forward who'll provide more in the loose, perhaps it could be argued that he's a perfect game changer.

And there are plenty of ways to accommodate Croft and SOB. Since Warburton isn't likely to come off, either Croft goes into the second row and SOB replaces Lydiate, or Croft comes in at 6 and SOB replaces Heaslip.

How an earth is the backline defence related to Croft coming on at flanker?
 
How an earth is the backline defence related to Croft coming on at flanker?
He doesn't restrict himself so much to the tight like a lot of flankers may. This can be a good or bad thing, depending on the circumstances.
 
Tuilagi covers wing I think. I would have had him at least on the bench ahead of Cuthbert. He's better than Davies as well tbh.
I'd have started him too but never seen him on wing so just presumed. I'd have him at 13 and BOD at 12.
 
Don't entirely follow this reasoning.. I'd have more confidence in Tuilagi covering wing then I would of Cuthbert covering centre...

Cuthbert won't cover centre, if a centre goes down then North moves in, cuthebert on the wing. I know he's only played a bit at centre but its better than nothing.
 
Reasons why you might want to bring him on: the lineout is creaking, too much possession is being lost in the backline, hitting in the tight isn't working, he's a strong and fast carrier to bring on, the backline are struggling defensively etc. In fact, as a try-scoring forward who'll provide more in the loose, perhaps it could be argued that he's a perfect game changer.

And there are plenty of ways to accommodate Croft and SOB. Since Warburton isn't likely to come off, either Croft goes into the second row and SOB replaces Lydiate, or Croft comes in at 6 and SOB replaces Heaslip.

Hmm, lets examine that reasoning.

Lineout getting it tight - Croft is not a 2nd row option then, could use him in the backrow, but is he much addition over Heaslip or Lydiate at the front of the lineout?
Lost possession in the backs - You want a ball carrying forward? SOB
Going tight is not working - You need a better carrier in the backrow? SOB
Strong carrier? Nope. SOB
Fast carrier? Yep, but faster than Davies, North, Bowe, 1/2p, nah, you'd be safer working on getting them the ball in more space.
Backline (as opposed to backrow) struggling defensively? Did you not notice Croft was one of the chief men at fault for the two tries Australia scored at the weekend, Australia exploited his lack of knowing how to defend the 3/4 or wider channels.


So, in summary, of the two reasons he could be required:
-Croft is a marginally better option at the front of the lineout than any of the other backrowers... but the improvement is marginal at best.
-Croft is quicker than the other forwards - but you need to get the ball out to him in space to use his speed as he isn't good in heavy traffic - and you need to get him the ball in wide channels quickly with one less man clearing rucks. Catch22.
 
Cuthbert won't cover centre, if a centre goes down then North moves in, cuthebert on the wing. I know he's only played a bit at centre but its better than nothing.
Alternatively (and I say this with trepidation), there's Farrell...
 
Fast carrier? Yep, but faster than Davies, North, Bowe, 1/2p, nah, you'd be safer working on getting them the ball in more space.

-Croft is quicker than the other forwards - but you need to get the ball out to him in space to use his speed as he isn't good in heavy traffic - and you need to get him the ball in wide channels quickly with one less man clearing rucks. Catch22.

I wouldn't be surprised if Croft is quicker than a number of the back-line. Think I am right in saying he was / is the second fastest at Leicester.
 
I would say Croft is probably faster than Davies and possibly 1/2p (haven't seen him in full flight for a while), and probably in the same region as North, Bowe and Cuthbert.
 
Hmm, lets examine that reasoning.

Lineout getting it tight - Croft is not a 2nd row option then, could use him in the backrow, but is he much addition over Heaslip or Lydiate at the front of the lineout?
Lost possession in the backs - You want a ball carrying forward? SOB
Going tight is not working - You need a better carrier in the backrow? SOB
Strong carrier? Nope. SOB
Fast carrier? Yep, but faster than Davies, North, Bowe, 1/2p, nah, you'd be safer working on getting them the ball in more space.
Backline (as opposed to backrow) struggling defensively? Did you not notice Croft was one of the chief men at fault for the two tries Australia scored at the weekend, Australia exploited his lack of knowing how to defend the 3/4 or wider channels.


So, in summary, of the two reasons he could be required:
-Croft is a marginally better option at the front of the lineout than any of the other backrowers... but the improvement is marginal at best.
-Croft is quicker than the other forwards - but you need to get the ball out to him in space to use his speed as he isn't good in heavy traffic - and you need to get him the ball in wide channels quickly with one less man clearing rucks. Catch22.

In advocating for Sean O'Brien you've omitted the fact that he doesn't have a brain - let alone a rugby brain.
Discipline and experience also matter.
 

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