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South Africa VS Wales

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Just watched the game again so I could look at it with more perspective.

South Africa won that game at the breakdown, turnovers gallore, which SA turned into tries at will. If we can't get good ball in the right positions in the second test, it'll be another drumming. It wouldn't of made much difference if Phillips, Peel, Henson, Burne etc. were fit, because the forewards didn't give the backs the platform they need.

But from that game, it's blindingly obvious Parker cannot play 12 (how many times have we said that). When Parker plays, Shanklin also looks poor, cos he's forced to try and create his own space as Parker just creates nothing! Stoddard is nowhere neer international class, his tackling is appalling, wheras Roberts showed he's got a bright future ahead of him, one of the stars of the Welsh team yesterday.

Shane Williams showed again, if we can get him into the game, give him a bit of space, he'll do the rest. He really is the best winger in the world at present, one of the only bright lights from that performance. Pitty he only touched the ball a handfull of times!

I thought allmost every SA player had a very good game, with de Villers the standout man. What a player he is, I lost count of the amount of big hits he put in and the amount of offloads he managed out of tackles etc. The only facet of the SA game that struggled was their scrum, but Gethin Jenkins showed that he's world class, tough job for the rookie SA prop.
 
Shane Williams showed again, if we can get him into the game, give him a bit of space, he'll do the rest. He really is the best winger in the world at present, one of the only bright lights from that performance. Pitty he only touched the ball a handfull of times!

The only facet of the SA game that struggled was their scrum, but Gethin Jenkins showed that he's world class, tough job for the rookie SA prop.
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Yes im not a fan of Mujati's he got pasted quite a few times in the super 14 so wasnt to happy with him playing yesterday. When the beast arrives the pack should be much stronger i feel.

I have to say i would agree with Williams being a world class winger, imo he is better than Clerc, but until he comes up against Rocokoko and Sivivatu i wouldnt say he's the best but in europe for sure.
 
I like shane williams, but really, stop shooting your load over that try. I'm a slow lock, and even i could beat Habana coming across field at full pace with a simple change of direction. That wasnt much compared to what the tiny ******* williams has done in the past :p [/b]

At least give us something, you demolished us! it was a very good try and all the better that it was Habana that Shane stepped. It obviously had an effect on Habana, because he seemed desperate to get a try from then on, and didn't look too happy that he didn't get one. And I'd honestly like to see you step Habana mate :p I'm a quick Winger and probably would get caught. And Shane isn't a ******* myn.

Yeah I watched the highlights on S4C, we got smashed in the breakdown, and the only Welsh player who really tried to be physical and show the Boks that he wasn't going to lie down and take it was Richard Hibbard. He ended up getting into a fight because of it as well :p
 
<div class='quotemain'> Indeed GG, the Tri-Nations is gonna be a thriller this year. Could be the best in years.
Some reports were right, PdV used this Test match to experiment for Tri-nations preparation, I haven't seen Percy play outside center since the 90's and he was there for a good 30+ minutes. This team only had 5 of the 15 players who played in the WC final last year (including 2 player's debuts), so there's more to come from the Boks, especially in the Tri-nations.
Mujati didn't do well,. yes it's his debut but a certain Heinke vd Merwe who has one cap more would of done better, even out of his position at tighthead.
But Bekker! He played well, look very comfortable. He showed up a much more experienced lock.

I'm looking forward to see what team PdV picks for next weekend. No doubt he'll experiment again, hopefully give BEAST!!!, Kankowski and Steyn a start. The atmosphere and intensity will be higher in Pretoria, they don't call it Fortress Loftus for nothing. [/b]

Where must Steyn start? I'm still not totally sure of Jacobs, but he had a good game yesterday.
The biggest concern for me is if Januarie's playing. Bolla played well yesterday so he at least deserve a spot on the bench. But Pienaar also played well when he came on. So will he be dropped for Januarie or will PdV keep the scrummies as is?
Mujati had a shaky start in the scrums. But what more do you expect from a young tighthead on debut. He got settles quickly and he'll only improve the more games he plays. I still think he should've been brought off the bench. Bekker was brilliant in the line outs and at defense. He had a few handling errors, otherwise a solid game. It's good to know we have a replacement for when Matfield retires.
Danie Rossouw didn't really do much and I'd still like to see Kankowski in his place.

The best thing about this game was Percy's try. That blonde streak of lightning gave me the biggest fright! Who knew he still had that much pace left? The pass wasn't even meant for him but he timed it perfectly. I think Grant was actually meant to go instead of Percy, but he played well nonetheless.
Oh and I expect both teams to play better next week. Wales will be trying to prove a point after playing badly yesterday and the boks will be getting used to the new combinations and getting into their rhythm. [/b][/quote]

"Why should Steyn play?" = the question that has every Sharks and/or Bok supporter stumped.



IMO, Steyn should either play 13 or 15. Because firstly, he's a big boy and his physicality will be most effective there, plus his tackling is sound. Secondly, he's unpredictable (I'm talking about the good unpredictable here), has a good step, knows good running lines and comes onto the ball well. His distribution skills and decision making have failed him sometimes but he only turned 21 a month ago, that kind of stuff can be developed.

He should however stay far away from 10 or 12, the Sharks tried him there and he got showed up, especially at 10. He says he wants to play 10, but meh, he would say that.

Onto Jacobs, I don't think Jacobs will be a regular starter for the Tri-Nations either. I used to hate him back in 2002 but I'm sure any Sharks supporter will agree with me that he's been playing good rugby for a couple of years now. I really started liking him when he started running straighter lines and attacking the line with confidence, something he severly lacked back in his early Bok career.

Conradie played well against Wales, no doubt about that, alot of people are eating their words. I've been on his case all week, and I certainly didn't expect him to be so solid. Well played Bolla. But as we all know the Tri-Nations make or break players chances of a Bok spot, and last time around Conradie got showed up by the Aussies and Kiwis. I still think there are atleast 4 other scrum-halves above him.

In order: du Preez, Januarie, Kockett, Vermaak are above him on a consistent basis in the S14 IMO.

I also hope Rossouw gets 'rest' :p next week, but he can cover 5 positions which makes it so hard to not include him, just-in-case. Know what I mean? For instance he replaced Botha, a lock, which I assume Kankowski couldn't slot right into it like him.

Mujati... Hmmm... I'm sure the Stormer fans on here already know I don't rate this guy as a Springbok. Gonna go out there and say that the Cape doesn't produce good international props. Visagie and Rautenbach were the last Bok quality props produced in the Cape. However it was quite clear that PdV wanted to play the expansive game by having Steenkamp and Mujati on at the same time, both aren't reknown for their scrummaging but they get around the park well. Dynamic props indeed. Perhaps that's why PdV didn't choose J.du Plessis and H. vd Merwe, both are extremely good scrummager but don't offer much in loose play. As soon as CJ van der Linde came on the scrums settled down a bit, but then got sin binned for that little scuffle he had :lol: I love that dude, so glad the Boks have him.



If Steyn would stop acting like a hyperactive nutter I would pick him as well. In the World Cup there were multiple cases of him trying way too hard and biting off way more than he could chew. Admirable stuff but he needs to remember that theres fourteen other green shirts out on the field there.

He'll stick in my mind for two things: one, the superb DGs against Australia and two, him completely going mad against Fiji and trying to take a long line out in his own 22 to a poor fellow Bok standing in try area. Thankfully, common sense prevailed and the ref brought it back but its moments of madness like them which cost games.

Thankfully, Smit told him to calm the hell down and he was back to his usual self afterwards. [/b]

You think he was a loose cannon in the WC, you should of seen him in the S14! My god, I was ripping my hair out.
 
Shane Williams showed again, if we can get him into the game, give him a bit of space, he'll do the rest. He really is the best winger in the world at present, one of the only bright lights from that performance. Pitty he only touched the ball a handfull of times![/b]


He's quick and has one hell of step but he was playing against a player with 2 international caps, who subsquently went out of position to tackle the already covered Welsh no.13, and Percy (playing at 13) had to try make up for the mistake (fat chance there), then Habana had to come across field to try and cover but **** that Williams can change direction so well. He even admitted after the game it was textbook stuff. Good try but all this hype of it is quite silly. Saying he's the best at present is a bit premature.
 
He's great when he's calm, Steyn can be forgiven because he's barely 19, right? And also, he has the raw talent to counter-balance some of the silly things he does from time to time. For example, fair enough he did try some silly things in the WC but at the same time he played really well when he had calmed down.

It kind of points to the leadership of guys like Smit and the other heavies in the squad who can quickly calm a situation before it gets out of control, like it almost did against Fiji.
 
Yea CJ is always good for a laugh, he's a pretty good scrummager but always seems to get into daft scuffles and occassionally acts as a scrum half :lol:

Shane Williams showed again, if we can get him into the game, give him a bit of space, he'll do the rest. He really is the best winger in the world at present, one of the only bright lights from that performance. Pitty he only touched the ball a handfull of times![/b]


He's quick and has one hell of step but he was playing against a player with 2 international caps, who subsquently went out of position to tackle the already covered Welsh no.13, and Percy (playing at 13) had to try make up for the mistake (fat chance there), then Habana had to come across field to try and cover but **** that Williams can change direction so well. He even admitted after the game it was textbook stuff. Good try but all this hype of it is quite silly. Saying he's the best at present is a bit premature.
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I dunno, he is the most prolific at the moment, Habana never got any space and was obviously furious when he was held up over the line, on the day Williams certainly had the edge on the Bok wingers partly due to the fact he was the only one to get a chance to run. Williams just has so much confidence, i never used to rate him because he was so small and was always targetted now any time he gets the ball it looks like he can score.
 
Yea CJ is always good for a laugh, he's a pretty good scrummager but always seems to get into daft scuffles and occassionally acts as a scrum half :lol:

<div class='quotemain'>
Shane Williams showed again, if we can get him into the game, give him a bit of space, he'll do the rest. He really is the best winger in the world at present, one of the only bright lights from that performance. Pitty he only touched the ball a handfull of times![/b]


He's quick and has one hell of step but he was playing against a player with 2 international caps, who subsquently went out of position to tackle the already covered Welsh no.13, and Percy (playing at 13) had to try make up for the mistake (fat chance there), then Habana had to come across field to try and cover but **** that Williams can change direction so well. He even admitted after the game it was textbook stuff. Good try but all this hype of it is quite silly. Saying he's the best at present is a bit premature.
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I dunno, he is the most prolific at the moment, Habana never got any space and was obviously furious when he was held up over the line, on the day Williams certainly had the edge on the Bok wingers partly due to the fact he was the only one to get a chance to run. Williams just has so much confidence, i never used to rate him because he was so small and was always targetted now any time he gets the ball it looks like he can score. [/b][/quote]

By "at the moment" I assume you're talking about recent international form? The SH teams have just started their international season, so by saying "at the moment" people are talking about other NH players and teams. Alot of other wingers have a better strike rates him, we should atleast wait till after the Tri-Nations to judge fairly.
 
<div class='quotemain'> Yea CJ is always good for a laugh, he's a pretty good scrummager but always seems to get into daft scuffles and occassionally acts as a scrum half :lol:

<div class='quotemain'>
Shane Williams showed again, if we can get him into the game, give him a bit of space, he'll do the rest. He really is the best winger in the world at present, one of the only bright lights from that performance. Pitty he only touched the ball a handfull of times![/b]


He's quick and has one hell of step but he was playing against a player with 2 international caps, who subsquently went out of position to tackle the already covered Welsh no.13, and Percy (playing at 13) had to try make up for the mistake (fat chance there), then Habana had to come across field to try and cover but **** that Williams can change direction so well. He even admitted after the game it was textbook stuff. Good try but all this hype of it is quite silly. Saying he's the best at present is a bit premature.
[/b]


I dunno, he is the most prolific at the moment, Habana never got any space and was obviously furious when he was held up over the line, on the day Williams certainly had the edge on the Bok wingers partly due to the fact he was the only one to get a chance to run. Williams just has so much confidence, i never used to rate him because he was so small and was always targetted now any time he gets the ball it looks like he can score. [/b][/quote]

By "at the moment" I assume you're talking about recent international form? The SH teams have just started their international season, so by saying "at the moment" people are talking about other NH players and teams. Alot of other wingers have a better strike rates him, we should atleast wait till after the Tri-Nations to judge fairly.
[/b][/quote]


whatevvvaaa ..:p
 
I have to say i would agree with Williams being a world class winger, imo he is better than Clerc, but until he comes up against Rocokoko and Sivivatu i wouldnt say he's the best but in europe for sure. [/b]



How quickly people forget who was crossing the line when Sivivatu and Williams met.

_41257995_siviv_pa300.jpg
 
Mujati... Hmmm... I'm sure the Stormer fans on here already know I don't rate this guy as a Springbok. Gonna go out there and say that the Cape doesn't produce good international props. Visagie and Rautenbach were the last Bok quality props produced in the Cape. However it was quite clear that PdV wanted to play the expansive game by having Steenkamp and Mujati on at the same time, both aren't reknown for their scrummaging but they get around the park well. Dynamic props indeed. Perhaps that's why PdV didn't choose J.du Plessis and H. vd Merwe, both are extremely good scrummager but don't offer much in loose play. As soon as CJ van der Linde came on the scrums settled down a bit, but then got sin binned for that little scuffle he had :lol: I love that dude, so glad the Boks have him.
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How can you not rate Mujati? Seriously awesome scrummager. Yet you want Beast who only stands out in the loose? I do agree that Heinke should've been in the team, amazingly strong for someone so young.
Just look at how with the help of a decent workhouse in JD Moller, Mujati was able to push the Sharks scrum around in Durban a few months ago. A scrum with Jannie du Plessis, Beast and BJ Botha (obviosuly not all together).

I think Steyn should play fullback. Easily the best position for him. It means his selfish tendencies to kick the ball away and never pass to anyone else won't hurt us much. But he's not deserving of a starting spot yet with Jantjes and Percy still in the mix.
 
I don't rate Mujati at all neither the Beast. Mujati doesn't scrum well at all, while Beast gets around the field well and does other things good he also can't scrum. Heinke should have been in the team.
 
I don't rate Mujati at all neither the Beast. Mujati doesn't scrum well at all, while Beast gets around the field well and does other things good he also can't scrum. Heinke should have been in the team.
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Every time i watch the beast he pastes his opposite number <_<

But yea Mujati is a pretty average scrummager and utter crap in the loose
 
<div class='quotemain'>

Mujati... Hmmm... I'm sure the Stormer fans on here already know I don't rate this guy as a Springbok. Gonna go out there and say that the Cape doesn't produce good international props. Visagie and Rautenbach were the last Bok quality props produced in the Cape. However it was quite clear that PdV wanted to play the expansive game by having Steenkamp and Mujati on at the same time, both aren't reknown for their scrummaging but they get around the park well. Dynamic props indeed. Perhaps that's why PdV didn't choose J.du Plessis and H. vd Merwe, both are extremely good scrummager but don't offer much in loose play. As soon as CJ van der Linde came on the scrums settled down a bit, but then got sin binned for that little scuffle he had :lol: I love that dude, so glad the Boks have him.
[/b]

How can you not rate Mujati? Seriously awesome scrummager. Yet you want Beast who only stands out in the loose? I do agree that Heinke should've been in the team, amazingly strong for someone so young.
Just look at how with the help of a decent workhouse in JD Moller, Mujati was able to push the Sharks scrum around in Durban a few months ago. A scrum with Jannie du Plessis, Beast and BJ Botha (obviosuly not all together).

I think Steyn should play fullback. Easily the best position for him. It means his selfish tendencies to kick the ball away and never pass to anyone else won't hurt us much. But he's not deserving of a starting spot yet with Jantjes and Percy still in the mix.
[/b][/quote]

I know what you mean about Beast, he was a 8th man only 4 years ago but from what I've seen of Mujati (granted I didn't watch all the Stormers games) he seems quite lazy fades away when he meets real opposition (NZ scrums). The Beast does get a good shoulder in, in most scrums but he is nowhere near our best scrummager. Even myself, a staunch Sharks supporter, raised an eye brow when his name got called out for the 30 man squad, however both got raised when Mujati got selected :p . He's is still young though, and I'm waiting to see the potential he has, as told by Stormer supporters.



Yeah I agree that Steyn hasn't done enough to secure a spot this season, especially at 15. Jantjies has been awesome this whole season, and has way more composure under the high ball. And Percy... well he's so damn dependable these days, the veteran is a great asset to the squad. Still a class player. Do you reckon he has another season in his legs? The Lions tour next year is a biggy, and we'll have to have all our bases covered.

We're not exactly spoilt for choice when it come to full-backs, so developing Steyn into a 15 could be a good idea. The Sharks wingers didn't see much ball when he played 13, his just to dominant with the ball at the moment.
 
Yeah I agree that Steyn hasn't done enough to secure a spot this season, especially at 15. Jantjies has been awesome this whole season, and has way more composure under the high ball. And Percy... well he's so damn dependable these days, the veteran is a great asset to the squad. Still a class player. Do you reckon he has another season in his legs? The Lions tour next year is a biggy, and we'll have to have all our bases covered.

We're not exactly spoilt for choice when it come to full-backs, so developing Steyn into a 15 could be a good idea. The Sharks wingers didn't see much ball when he played 13, his just to dominant with the ball at the moment.
[/b]

You have to nip the problem of developing players who are either too selfish or simply not self aware enough to work the ball in the bud. Post 2003, you had a problem where the 'new' generation of England centers either didn't know that Jason Robinson/Mark Cueto was standing on an overlap or were more interested in trying to crash through the opposition via route one. The result? Not making the gain line and turnover. The Tindall and Noon partnership was possibly one of the biggest disasters of post 2003 English Rugby. The reason why Greenwood and Tindall rocked so much was because Greenwood's brains balanced Tindall's tunnel vision brutality. You didn't have to worry about Tindall because you knew that Greenwood would have an answer for any eventuality. When Greenwood went, Andy Robinson either couldn't or wouldn't make up his mind over developing a suitable replacement for 2007 and time after time resorted to Noon & Tindall. Utter, utter fail.

Anyway! The lesson of this is to move Steyn to full back and harness that ultra powerful boot of his! Job done!
 
well was a good match for neutrals i guess. Wales were just outclassed, no excusses (humidity, end of season, injuries etc hahah). Only good thing was I'd say Shane Williams 1- Bryan Habana 0 hahahaha. Although Habana looked lively at times! should be interesting next week.
 
You have to nip the problem of developing players who are either too selfish or simply not self aware enough to work the ball in the bud. Post 2003, you had a problem where the 'new' generation of England centers either didn't know that Jason Robinson/Mark Cueto was standing on an overlap or were more interested in trying to crash through the opposition via route one. The result? Not making the gain line and turnover. The Tindall and Noon partnership was possibly one of the biggest disasters of post 2003 English Rugby. The reason why Greenwood and Tindall rocked so much was because Greenwood's brains balanced Tindall's tunnel vision brutality. You didn't have to worry about Tindall because you knew that Greenwood would have an answer for any eventuality. When Greenwood went, Andy Robinson either couldn't or wouldn't make up his mind over developing a suitable replacement for 2007 and time after time resorted to Noon & Tindall. Utter, utter fail.

Anyway! The lesson of this is to move Steyn to full back and harness that ultra powerful boot of his! Job done! [/b]

Luckily for the Boks and the younger players like Steyn we have some great leaders, in the backs and forwards. Smit, Watson, Smith, Matfiled, De Villiers and Fourie have been or are captains of their S14 and provincial teams. PdV is also one no non-sense type of guy and has coached SA at U/19 and U/21 (x2) level so he knows how to handle young players.

I also think we should put too much pressure on Steyn, as he's still very young and I feel some of his coaches value his wildcard status. HOWEVER, international rugby doesn't take any prisoners, so if he wants to play a part for the Boks he needs to stop sulking so much, shut the f*** up and get in line.

But I'm sure under PdV he will thrive, as PdV has worked and helped develop with alot the young players you see on the international scene nowdays. I listed them in another thread, but it fell on deaf ears though as they were empty names, but after the Test match last week maybe some more people will give him more recognition. Spies, Watson, Shalk Britz, Bosman, Barritt, Heinke vd Merwe and many more have all worked with PdV in the past.
 
the only Welsh player who really tried to be physical and show the Boks that he wasn't going to lie down and take it was Richard Hibbard. He ended up getting into a fight because of it as well :p
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Shame about his throwing in at the lineout. We lost two balls when he came on I think. Then again, all of our hookers suck at throwing in. :angry:
 
I know what you mean about Beast, he was a 8th man only 4 years ago but from what I've seen of Mujati (granted I didn't watch all the Stormers games) he seems quite lazy fades away when he meets real opposition (NZ scrums). The Beast does get a good shoulder in, in most scrums but he is nowhere near our best scrummager. Even myself, a staunch Sharks supporter, raised an eye brow when his name got called out for the 30 man squad, however both got raised when Mujati got selected tongue.gif . He's is still young though, and I'm waiting to see the potential he has, as told by Stormer supporters.

Yeah I agree that Steyn hasn't done enough to secure a spot this season, especially at 15. Jantjies has been awesome this whole season, and has way more composure under the high ball. And Percy... well he's so damn dependable these days, the veteran is a great asset to the squad. Still a class player. Do you reckon he has another season in his legs? The Lions tour next year is a biggy, and we'll have to have all our bases covered.

We're not exactly spoilt for choice when it come to full-backs, so developing Steyn into a 15 could be a good idea. The Sharks wingers didn't see much ball when he played 13, his just to dominant with the ball at the moment.
[/b]

The only NZ scrum that we didn't do well against was the Crusaders' (and did any team scrum well against them?) We outscrummed the Blues and Chiefs with Mujati shouldering most of the responsibility. Aginst the Hurricanes we definitely had the upper hand, remember that 40m rolling maul that Mujati was in front of? Only when Moller became injured, that idiot Brok Harris replaced him and Mujati has to move to loosehead did we start struggling. And I can't remember how our scrum stood up to the Highlanders.
Point is, Mujati was anything but nonexistant against NZ. When he's plays well, our scrum does well. To be honest that's the reason I want him to succeed so much, there's no player who's important in The Stormers squad than him. So I really hope he can make the step up. I'll judge him properly at the end of the year though when he should've been tested enough.

I can't imagine that Percy will still be as good a player next year. But then I've been thinking that for the past few years and he's proved me wrong so it'll probably be the same. He's a great player to have around to pass his experience on.
I think Percy should be rested against Italy and we can have Steyn start at fullback to see how he does. Steyn's still young so he can be be developed as a fullback in the meanwhile and when Percy retires he'll probably be fighting with Jantjes for a starting place. Nothing wrong with playing in another position when you're needed (like Percy did yesterday), but this swopping him around has really messed him up.

Maybe if we're lucky Habana and Chavanga will get more of the ball next week. It's actually amazing have 3 super fast, brilliant wings on a rugby field at one time. Chavanga's defense was a bit disappointing though, especially since his defense was so good during the Super 14. But it's his 1st game back from injury so let's hope heregains his spark next week.
 
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