Spring Tour: South Africa - England - 1st Test (09/06/2012, 16:00 GMT)

[Saintjay]

That's good to know. For England, Cole is a pretty strong scrummager who has pretty much given all-comers a hard time this last year. Beast may have a hard time of it. Hartley versus Bismarck du Plessis is a fight waiting to happen which I fully expect Bismarck to win - with interest! In the scrum, though, Hartley is a real boost to the props he plays with. England will need to be v careful with the lineout and I suspect Parling will need to take charge of that, without Croft as an extra jumper.

I think Parling will be ok. He is a self confessed line out nerd and watches video after video. It's Foden I hope is on form no matter which way you look at it. The Boks are going to kick and chase and an on form Foden will put the fear of god into them.

 

[Tadginator]

Mvovo should be In there or at least on the bench. I get that he's not a utility player so don't have him on the bench but they seriously should have him starting. He's been one of the most dangerous attackers in south Africa and super rugby

 

[Peat]

I think Parling will be ok. He is a self confessed line out nerd and watches video after video. It's Foden I hope is on form no matter which way you look at it. The Boks are going to kick and chase and an on form Foden will put the fear of god into them.

Parling is some operator, but there's only so much you can do if you don't have enough options. Which, if the rumours of Tom Johnson to start are true, will probably be the case.

Same rumour says Foden will start on the wing. Ballsy call.

Prepare for a lot of kicking.

 

[Draggs]

Mvovo should be In there or at least on the bench. I get that he's not a utility player so don't have him on the bench but they seriously should have him starting. He's been one of the most dangerous attackers in south Africa and super rugby

The claim is that Habana is a better defender and has a higher workrate.
Probably true, but he offers little in attack. It's like Sonny Bill when he touches the ball, the commentators have to comment on how he is getting involved.

 

[Saintjay]

Parling is some operator, but there's only so much you can do if you don't have enough options. Which, if the rumours of Tom Johnson to start are true, will probably be the case.

Same rumour says Foden will start on the wing. Ballsy call.

Prepare for a lot of kicking.

Is Brown looking at starting at full back? and is he better under the high ball?. I only get Aviva highlights so have not seen a great deal of his full game. I know he has been in decent form and seems quite well thought of. Not a hugh fan of the idea that Foden will start on the wing, not sure what you or others think?.

 

[SomeOke]

The claim is that Habana is a better defender and has a higher workrate.
Probably true, but he offers little in attack. It's like Sonny Bill when he touches the ball, the commentators have to comment on how he is getting involved.

Hmmm I'm not so sure, clearly I have some team bias so take this with a pinch of salt, but Habana has looked quite dangerous this year, he seems to be back to his old pace and when he's put away he stays put away.
Keep in mind that the Stormers hardly ever pass to their wings, but when Habana has had his opportunities he does look dangerous.
If you add the fact that he is better at the kick-and-chase and defends better the selection isn't that surprising. I would have preferred to see Mvovo in the number 22 jersey however, both JP and Habana could cover centre if it came to that and surely Mvovo offers a lot more than Wynand.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Which, if the rumours of Tom Johnson to start are true, will probably be the case.

I'd like to see that.
While he's not a lineout option he's a great blindisde with surprising pace as well.

 

[Sker]

Well we know Heyneke is smart, so I hope England's counterattack is really really really good... Catch my drift?

 

[Peat]

Is Brown looking at starting at full back? and is he better under the high ball?. I only get Aviva highlights so have not seen a great deal of his full game. I know he has been in decent form and seems quite well thought of. Not a hugh fan of the idea that Foden will start on the wing, not sure what you or others think?.

Not much between them under the high ball. Both rather better than Strettle though.

The idea's obvious. SA will kick, have two guys who counter-attack well, kick well and are solid under the high ball. The stick point is how well Foden will go there. In theory, he's got all that traits but experience, and in practice that last one has been rather important to date. Presumably Lancaster feels happy after seeing it in training though.

I'd like to see that.
While he's not a lineout option he's a great blindisde with surprising pace as well.

Oh yeah, I'm happy he's getting the game. Just a bit iffy about taking on a kickaholic SA team with only one top line out jumper.

 

[Saintjay]

Ben Youngs starting at 9 , maybe Marler at 1.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Oh yeah, I'm happy he's getting the game. Just a bit iffy about taking on a kickaholic SA team with only one top line out jumper.

True true.
Perhaps we'll see Palmer and Parling together? Actually, that'll never happen (apart from if one of Parling/Palmer is on the bench and comes on later in the game).
Hopefully because it's a new SA lineout unit with limited time training together it won't matter as much.
Though that's unlikely as well, as they're all experienced professional players regardless of how experienced they are as a unit.

 

[Peat]

True true.
Perhaps we'll see Palmer and Parling together? Actually, that'll never happen (apart from if one of Parling/Palmer is on the bench and comes on later in the game).
Hopefully because it's a new SA lineout unit with limited time training together it won't matter as much.
Though that's unlikely as well, as they're all experienced professional players regardless of how experienced they are as a unit.

There's a fair amount of reason to your hope there - and it's not like either man's Matfield, or even Bekker - but it's not a gamble I'm sure I'd have taken myself. Dowson is reasonably good in the air; is he physical enough for SA however? The absence of Croft and Wood is annoying, and I'd be very curious as to how Gibson gets on and is regarded.

I'm happy enough. I wouldn't start Youngs mind, not if Flood's not playing, and it seems I rate Youngs more than most. edit: But it's not the end of the world, we're pretty blessed there with him back in reasonable form.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's hard trying to balance our backrow, based on lineout, open field, breakdown, physicality etc. as they're pretty much all able to play anywhere across the back row.
Fearns and Waldrom are probably the hardest hitters/carriers in the squad, yet neither is likely to feature - rightly or wrongly (mostly rightly, though).


I'm hoping that, with Gibson in the squad, we'll see 6. Fearns, 7. Gibson, 8. Waldrom midweek.
That'll be quality.


I also wouldn't be adverse to seeing Youngs starting. He's very much a confidence player and ever since the latter stages of the Six Nations he's been on a high, I mean he very nearly dragged the Tigers kicking and screaming to a premiership ***le at Twickers.
If he can carry that form across to England I'll be a very happy bunny.

 

[eot345]

I think it is important that england field the biggest bruising pack they can given that i have never seen england win a mach where their forwards did not atleast hold their own.

so i thinks that means picking:

1. Corbs
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Parling
5.Botha
6.Dowson / fearns
7.Robshaw
8.Morgan

with Haskell coming back in at 6 for dowson for the second test with Marler and grey wearing the 16. and 17.shirts I dont think PDJ should be in the starting 22 since he is more likely to struggle angainst the Boks front row i do not rate him as highly as mullan or marler (corbs can play tighthead if cole gets injured)

 

[Peat]

EOT - Johnson is certainly more physical than Dowson, beyond doubt.

 

[TRF_heineken]

There's a fair amount of reason to your hope there - and it's not like either man's Matfield, or even Bekker - but it's not a gamble I'm sure I'd have taken myself. Dowson is reasonably good in the air; is he physical enough for SA however? The absence of Croft and Wood is annoying, and I'd be very curious as to how Gibson gets on and is regarded.

I'm happy enough. I wouldn't start Youngs mind, not if Flood's not playing, and it seems I rate Youngs more than most. edit: But it's not the end of the world, we're pretty blessed there with him back in reasonable form.

I'm very curious to see how our rookies will go in the line-outs. Juandre Kruger has been Matfield's Protege all year, and was training with him at the bulls. Victor is also now the Boks line-out consultant so my guess is, they will be ready in that department.


On a totally different note, I completely forgot that Heyneke Meyer got a bunch of Bulls coaches in his Bok Management group, and with the amount of Bulls in the squad, the transition in the beginning might be quicker than expected.

 

[Nicolaas]

Mvovo is in the squad, so send Bananas home and replace him with Ludik or Aplon

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

Ludik - HELL NO. Aplon - Yes please.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Interesting South African team. Plenty of experience in the backline, but undoubtedly lacking a bit of flair - a pretty good backline for a 'kick-chase' gameplan though....
Even as a neutral I'm disappointed to see Kirchner picked at fullback (can think of 3-4 South African fullbacks I personally would have preferred....). Good to see F Steyn back - anyone know what sort of condition he is in? Last time he came back to South African he looked like a prop

Not surprised to see no genuine openside (as there really wasn't any in the squad), but am happy to see Coetzee starting, as he has really impressed me.... not so convinced about Alberts or Spies though (I wish Vermuleon would stop getting himself injured!). Great to see Etzebeth starting - can't wait till the Rugby Championship to see him battle with NZ's young locking star Retallick! Looks like Oosthuizen will be covering both sides of the scrum off the bench - I haven't watched the Cheetahs a huge amount this season - has he had much time on the tighthead side for them (I know he has a season of Currie Cup in the 3 position...)?

The report I've read says F Steyn is in good shape; a bit leaner than during the RWC last year.

Coenie hasn't played at 3 in th S15 that I can remember but he has some experience in the position, yes and it was rumored that Os was looking at grooming him for tighthead over time.

There's a fair amount of reason to your hope there - and it's not like either man's Matfield, or even Bekker - but it's not a gamble I'm sure I'd have taken myself. Dowson is reasonably good in the air; is he physical enough for SA however? The absence of Croft and Wood is annoying, and I'd be very curious as to how Gibson gets on and is regarded.

I'm happy enough. I wouldn't start Youngs mind, not if Flood's not playing, and it seems I rate Youngs more than most. edit: But it's not the end of the world, we're pretty blessed there with him back in reasonable form.

I think Kruger is better than bekker or at least has been during this year. Bekker has struggled with his lower back right throughout this year though and hasn't been the Bekker of 2010/2011 so i suspect his chronic back troubles have something to do with it.

 

[Harlequin - Red]

Looking forward to the game it should be a good one

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England team confirmed as (from RFU.com):

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins)
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
12 Brad Barritt (Saracens)
11 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
10 Owen Farrell (Saracens)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
7 Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins)
8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)​

[h=3]Replacements[/h]

16 Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
17 Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
18 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
19 Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
20 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
21 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
22 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)



Some...interesting...choices, but just got to wait and see now! Can't wait!​