Steve Walsh is a cheat...

[Tony Manx]

In every game, everyone sees things that are missed by refs and the other officials and everyone sees these incidents with their "supporters" eyes.........that is only natural and I am as guilty as anyone else. If you ever see a ref having a perfect game not only is he actually God but you also do not have any biased interest in the outcome of the game and are strangely neutral!

The vast amount of post match comments from experts and non experts, Welsh and non Welsh, alike is that Walsh was absolutely correct in how he officiated this particular incident and to build a big "Steve Walsh is a cheat" thread based on this and other situations in the match is plain daft!

PS SmartCooky says he was right so there is no further argument to be had!

 

[TRF_heineken]

In every game, everyone sees things that are missed by refs and the other officials and everyone sees these incidents with their "supporters" eyes.........that is only natural and I am as guilty as anyone else. If you ever see a ref having a perfect game not only is he actually God but you also do not have any biased interest in the outcome of the game and are strangely neutral!

The vast amount of post match comments from experts and non experts, Welsh and non Welsh, alike is that Walsh was absolutely correct in how he officiated this particular incident and to build a big "Steve Walsh is a cheat" thread based on this and other situations in the match is plain daft!

PS SmartCooky says he was right so there is no further argument to be had!

I Agree!

Questions were asked and answered.

Now the Mods can go ahead and lock this one up.

 

[smartcooky]

Some posters here (99% of them one-post-wonders I have to say though) doing all sorts of bending of the laws to try and argue the last penalty try wasn't a legit call all the while conveniently forgetting one of their (Welsh) tries was probably not a try either..

At the end of the day this is not the type of ref performance that warrants this level of scrutiny and bemoaning. NZ has had a few in past RWCs, SA and France each suffered in RWC 2011. The type of games where the ref consistently blows differently for the two teams, totally ignores fundimental laws or makes more than 2 big, big calls incoorectly against the same side and on the biggest stage. Now those one can legitimately complain about in my mind at least.

One for you Stormer............................. and one for me

Rest assured, four million Kiwis knew exactly how 50 million Saffas were feeling on October 9, 2011!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

One for you Stormer............................. and one for me

Rest assured, four million Kiwis knew exactly how 50 million Saffas were feeling on October 9, 2011!

LOL. I have to admit I always had something of a guilty pleasure over how game was handled... right up until it happened to us.

 

[Big Ewis]

I'm unaware of what happened to S.A. (when, where, vs who), could you elaborate ?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm unaware of what happened to S.A. (when, where, vs who), could you elaborate ?

Where have you been? Are you feigning ignorance simply to torture me? Anyway

Have a look at Aus vs SA RWC 2011 semi final. Referee; Bryce Lawrence.

Just watch that match and the number of times David Pocock has his hands on the ball while not supporting his weight, and just incorrect entry, lyying over the ball etc., also count the number of high tackles made on SA backs effectively killing our forward momentum. I remember on time Pat McCabe clothlined two SA backs simultaneously! Now if high tackles on SA players are a go then at least surely blow for tackling the one man without the ball? Watch his handling of the scrums. The whole match from start to finish just letting go Aus infringments but pinging SA when we do something. Effectively he was only policing one team.

 

[Big Ewis]

Where have you been? Are you feigning ignorance simply to torture me? Anyway

Have a look at Aus vs SA RWC 2011 semi final. Referee; Bryce Lawrence.

Just watch that match and the number of times David Pocock has his hands on the ball while not supporting his weight, and just incorrect entry, lyying over the ball etc., also count the number of high tackles made on SA backs effectively killing our forward momentum. I remember on time Pat McCabe clothlined two SA backs simultaneously! Now if high tackles on SA players are a go then at least surely blow for tackling the one man without the ball? Watch his handling of the scrums. The whole match from start to finish just letting go Aus infringments but pinging SA when we do something. Effectively he was only policing one team.

Okay, I'll watch it with all that in mind when I get the time, maybe. And I've been where I need to be, I'm not going to apologize for what I don't know man sorry but I'm tired of this, like I should be reluctant to just ask what I want to ask, and pretend I'm this encyclopedia of Rugby. This attitude is really annoying, I'm not addressing this to you stormer in particular, and I know you're half-kidding in that post specifically.
But like we should apologize or feel shame because we don't know about some match or never heard of a player or aren't familiar with a rule yet :lol: how old are we, seriously...

I can totally picture this group of renowned Rugby scholars testing one another just for the fk of it, and each one is holding a ruler, and when one of them hesitates too long or doesn't know an answer, he gets beat on the finger tips.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Okay, I'll watch it with all that in mind when I get the time, maybe. And I've been where I need to be, I'm not going to apologize for what I don't know man sorry but I'm tired of this, like I should be reluctant to just ask what I want to ask, and pretend I'm this encyclopedia of Rugby. This attitude is really annoying, I'm not addressing this to you stormer in particular, and I know you're half-kidding in that post specifically.
But like we should apologize or feel shame because we don't know about some match or never heard of a player or aren't familiar with a rule yet :lol: how old are we, seriously...

I can totally picture this group of renowned Rugby scholars testing one another just for the fk of it, and each one is holding a ruler, and when one of them hesitates too long or doesn't know an answer, he gets beat on the finger tips.

No malice intended.. just about ever, really. But I get what you mean totally. Live and learn. But I am surprised you havn't come across that one match specifically. It went ugly that one; the general SA public reacted like never before and we tend to be a nation that goes overboard faster than most (remember rugby here is for everyone not just the boarding/private schoolers etc.. or the mechanics watch it and not just the venture capitalists if you get where I am coming from..). Lawrence got dropped he was so poor and there were even mass death threats; though not too be taken too seriously I'm sure.

 

[Big Ewis]

No malice intended.. just about ever, really. But I get what you mean totally. Live and learn. But I am surprised you havn't come across that one match specifically. It went ugly that one; the general SA public reacted like never before and we tend to be a nation that goes overboard faster than most (remember rugby here is for everyone not just the boarding/private schoolers etc.. or the mechanics watch it and not just the venture capitalists if you get where I am coming from..). Lawrence got dropped he was so poor and there were even mass death threats; though not too be taken too seriously I'm sure.

I know that. I hope it didn't sound like I was pis$ed. I'm just complaining out loud about an ongoing annoying thing online.

Well about that, I was just turning into a Rugby fan during that RWC, and I just remember seeing the low score at the time and moving on to other playoff knockouts. Never really got back to it, or watched it whole, but checked a few plays here and there from it...

And btw, was it that badly called, the game ? I don't want to watch a whole 80min and just pick up a couple of 50-50 irregular calls ! You sure there ain't no bias in what you're saying ?? This isn't going to sound very friendly or wtvr, but Saffas really really do tend to complain about the reffing in EVERY - SINGLE - MATCH they lose, or that comes too close...just noting facts here, just observations, nothing mean.

 

[nickdnz]

I know that. I hope it didn't sound like I was pis$ed. I'm just complaining out loud about an ongoing annoying thing online.

Well about that, I was just turning into a Rugby fan during that RWC, and I just remember seeing the low score at the time and moving on to other playoff knockouts. Never really got back to it, or watched it whole, but checked a few plays here and there from it...

And btw, was it that badly called, the game ? I don't want to watch a whole 80min and just pick up a couple of 50-50 irregular calls ! You sure there ain't no bias in what you're saying ?? This isn't going to sound very friendly or wtvr, but Saffas really really do tend to complain about the reffing in EVERY - SINGLE - MATCH they lose, or that comes too close...just noting facts here, just observations, nothing mean.

Well..let's just say it was far worse refereed than the final, which French fans invented a list of injustices they couldn't point to exactly (and ignoring Rougerie's eye gouge all together ).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I know that. I hope it didn't sound like I was pis$ed. I'm just complaining out loud about an ongoing annoying thing online.

Well about that, I was just turning into a Rugby fan during that RWC, and I just remember seeing the low score at the time and moving on to other playoff knockouts. Never really got back to it, or watched it whole, but checked a few plays here and there from it...

And btw, was it that badly called, the game ? I don't want to watch a whole 80min and just pick up a couple of 50-50 irregular calls ! You sure there ain't no bias in what you're saying ?? This isn't going to sound very friendly or wtvr, but Saffas really really do tend to complain about the reffing in EVERY - SINGLE - MATCH they lose, or that comes too close...just noting facts here, just observations, nothing mean.

It was indeed atrosciously handled. You'll struggle to find worse at most pro levels. So much so we had reviews upon reviews and if I remember the numbers correctly the commentator said over the RWc therre was about 16/17 ref errors per match but in that one game there was close to 60 all in the favor of Aus.

Yes, we do complain about ref performances more than most it's absolutely true but saying every single time is not exactly right. Why, you won't find a single SA poster complaining about teh ref performance in SA vs NZ in Jo'Burg last RC which we lost and that's just off the top of my mind. I would like to say though- in our defense somewhat- part of the reason is that we are generally used to a very high level of refereeing. I would even go as faar as saying the Currie Cup is much better reffed than the Rugby Championship. Maybe we are just more used to the way our refs handle games but it is a generally accepted perception that SA refs are on average way better than other nations'. So we complain when we get less than what we are used to at a lower level.

 

[Big Ewis]

Well..let's just say it was far worse refereed than the final, which French fans invented a list of injustices they couldn't point to exactly (and ignoring Rougerie's eye gouge all together ).

well, here are some facts: an entire 25min video was dedicated to Craig Joubert's calls on YouTube, it's called "Autopsy of a Final" found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXCQnL421WM, but also the channel Setanta (discussed by an Aussie and and Irishman, not French) highlights the most attention-catching moments of Joubert's decisions and "non-refereeing" as they call it themselves; here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuIuXrwPCcc; while French fans, and tons of non-French fans have commented extensively about the ref's choices and always about specific plays and non-calls during the game.

stormer: fair enough. I'd attribute South African people's reactions to losing or coming too close in matches to other things than merely their expectation of good refereeing though. But again, I'll really try to find time for that SA AUS match and have indeed not come across anything about the bad reffing in the game, somehow. Could you give me particular moments I should look out for ? Like, not a specific time on the clock, but just something memorable ?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

well, here are some facts: an entire 25min video was dedicated to Craig Joubert's calls on YouTube, it's called "Autopsy of a Final" found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXCQnL421WM, but also the channel Setanta (discussed by an Aussie and and Irishman, not French) highlights the most attention-catching moments of Joubert's decisions and "non-refereeing" as they call it themselves; here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuIuXrwPCcc; while French fans, and tons of non-French fans have commented extensively about the ref's choices and always about specific plays and non-calls during the game.

stormer: fair enough. I'd attribute South African people's reactions to losing or coming too close in matches to other things than merely their expectation of good refereeing though. But again, I'll really try to find time for that SA AUS match and have indeed not come across anything about the bad reffing in the game, somehow. Could you give me particular moments I should look out for ? Like, not a specific time on the clock, but just something memorable ?

This was not so much a one big error game but the sheer build up of it. One thing that really ticked me off was the number of forward passes Aussie got away with but then a try from SA was disallowed because Lawrence saw a forward pas from JdV to Lambie that wasn't forward and he didn't even bother to use the TMO. Just do some counting; high tackles, off feet at breakdown, hands in the ruck (remember if the ruck has formed you can't go for it any more using your hands), tackler not releasing or rolling away, side entry, forward passes. You name Aus got away with it and SA not. Just bizarre.

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't believe you. I think you're a compulsive liar who keeps exaggerating things as it goes and have come up with a conclusion here that you just can't get back from. You're downright clinically insane if I'm to be blunt, but I'll still watch that game just to keep you under control and lighten your conscience by telling you it's true AUS were heavily favored.

Hey, I'll get the game later. Do you have a dropbox ? I'll send it to you if you want, and we could talk about some moments later.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't believe you. I think you're a compulsive liar who keeps exaggerating things as it goes and have come up with a conclusion here that you just can't get back from. You're downright clinically insane if I'm to be blunt, but I'll still watch that game just to keep you under control and lighten your conscience by telling you it's true AUS were heavily favored.

Hey, I'll get the game later. Do you have a dropbox ? I'll send it to you if you want, and we could talk about some moments later.

Hey, have you been talking with my wife? But watch that bizarre game. Even mire bixarre than the final or that SA vs Samoa game in June last year and PM me when you're done and we'll chat: even about the final. Yes i have a Dropbox account.

 

[smartcooky]

Where have you been? Are you feigning ignorance simply to torture me? Anyway

Have a look at Aus vs SA RWC 2011 semi final. Referee; Bryce Lawrence.

Just watch that match and the number of times David Pocock has his hands on the ball while not supporting his weight, and just incorrect entry, lyying over the ball etc., also count the number of high tackles made on SA backs effectively killing our forward momentum. I remember on time Pat McCabe clothlined two SA backs simultaneously! Now if high tackles on SA players are a go then at least surely blow for tackling the one man without the ball? Watch his handling of the scrums. The whole match from start to finish just letting go Aus infringments but pinging SA when we do something. Effectively he was only policing one team.

And then there's the forward pass, the one that Lawrence called when it clearly wasn't!


ETA: Only one positive came out of that match really... Bryce Lawrence effectively ended his own career with that performance.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Where have you been? Are you feigning ignorance simply to torture me? Anyway

Have a look at Aus vs SA RWC 2011 semi final. Referee; Bryce Lawrence.

Just watch that match and the number of times David Pocock has his hands on the ball while not supporting his weight, and just incorrect entry, lyying over the ball etc., also count the number of high tackles made on SA backs effectively killing our forward momentum. I remember on time Pat McCabe clothlined two SA backs simultaneously! Now if high tackles on SA players are a go then at least surely blow for tackling the one man without the ball? Watch his handling of the scrums. The whole match from start to finish just letting go Aus infringments but pinging SA when we do something. Effectively he was only policing one team.

Sorry to be a pedant, but it was a quarter final of the RWC. Anyway, please carry on slating Bryce Lawrence.

 

[Big Ewis]

Sorry to be a pedant, but it was a quarter final of the RWC. Anyway, please carry on slating Bryce Lawrence.

dude, he knows that, I know that, everybody knows that...seriously, no point...like, :bravo: man

 

[willofthewest]

….well its an interesting concept Peat and I heard Steve Walsh say that when Alun Wynn was talking to him; something along the lines of “I have to make the decision as if the tackler wasn’t there†…
.. this is my beef really…. I’m not sure where that particular concept comes from ……where Steve Walsh got the idea from ……
…for example if an attacker is “taken out†on the field of play the penalty will be awarded at the point where the illegal tackle was made â€" the ref doesn’t assume because it was an illegal tackle that the defender wouldn’t have been there and then go on to award a penalty kick from some arbitrary point further on based upon where he thinks the attacker might have got to if he hadn’t been illegally tackled?
….the issue of the penalty try and probability is a complicated one and I agree with the spirit of the idea but to be honest every time an illegal tackle or an offside infringement occurs the referee takes into account where it happened; the further away from the try line the less likely it is that a penalty try will be awarded.. and to be honest the touchline if you are over it is just as far from the try line as the twenty two…..!
I don’t have a problem over all with officials missing things because if we are all screaming that something has been missed then we are just playing into the hands of the tv pundits and all this does is force the refes to think more about their performance review than the spirit of the game they are officiating over
The trouble with the Steve Walsh remark is its not clearly defined in law and I have never understood why the game is full of semantics over some issues which are never clearly defined in its laws but has been become clouded over others which for the spirit of the game are much more important and much more clearly defined in the laws
… I’m thinking of things such as illegal binding, feeds, non captains talking to the referee, soccer-style shrugs and smirks, throwing the ball away, not letting the ball go, diving, faking and urging the ref to award penalties and cards to the opposition .. these will destroy the game and should be easy for the officials to deal with … brings me back to my second point â€" the forward pass …

 

[smartcooky]

well, here are some facts: an entire 25min video was dedicated to Craig Joubert's calls on YouTube, it's called "Autopsy of a Final" found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXCQnL421WM,

Seems like a completely biased video to me. (All Blacks = Villains, French = Angels). The video claims fairness but delivers none.

When they started referring to the "Laws" as "Rules" and the "Assistant Referees" as "Linesmen", that pretty much did for credibility as far as I was concerned. It wasn't hard to work out that whoever put this together knew next to NOTHING about rugby.

So far, I have only looked closely at the scrum analysis part, and its plain that whoever wrote the commentary is only seeing what they want to see; for example the 66:05 scrum, the commentary claims that the All Blacks front row put their heads up out of the scrum (and therefore it should have been a penalty to France), when in fact the FIRST head out of the scrum was that of the French hooker, No 16.

Not a great start, less than 3 minutes into a 25 minute video and the first clearly wrong call by the commentator.

I have a little spare time over the next couple of weeks. I might just have a go at picking this video apart. Given the obvious bias, the complexity of the Laws of Rugby, and the propensity for the video makers to see only what they want to see, I bet I could tear it to shreds.