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Summer tours - England


Just spot on, really - nothing to add!
Ben Curry will be back by summer (think he's due back mid-April) so hopefully will be in the mix,

Barbeary starting at 8 for Wasps today - and I'm very much on record as hoping he stays in that position.
Noticed that Dombrandt has the captains armband for Quins, as well
 
Just spot on, really - nothing to add!
Ben Curry will be back by summer (think he's due back mid-April) so hopefully will be in the mix,

Barbeary starting at 8 for Wasps today - and I'm very much on record as hoping he stays in that position.
Noticed that Dombrandt has the captains armband for Quins, as well
Always does when lewies isn't playing. Has looked good as Captain thus far
 
My 32 man squad would be:
1) Genge, Obano, West
2) Dunn, Singleton
3) Stuart, Williams, Heyes
Lock) Ewels, Hill, launchbury*Captian, ribbons but I would prefer iswekie but Eddie seem to have lost faith in him.
Flanker) Martin, Hill, Earl, Underhill, Barbeary*emergency hooker cover but primarily seen as a 6/8.
8) dombrandt, simmonds
9) robson, JVP
10) smith, simmonds
Wing) cokanasiga, odogwu, Thorley
12) piers O'Conor, devoto
13) Lawrence, marchent
15) malins, steward
plenty of young talent with a few experience test players still in there. Plus most importantly the chance for certain lads to impress. The players missing who are usually in the squad like a mako or Marler I suspect with either be on the lions tour or rested. No point taking them, it's a development tour.
 
Plus I think it would be the ideal situation to cap Heyes as wales have been sniffing around him for the past season or so. I'm expecting him to be our/tigers starting tighthead next season or by the end of next season.
 
Thing is while there are great young players you also need experience and a balanced team. Summer tour is great for seeing who has potential and if they can show they are world class like Curry for example then age shouldn't matter. However, world class for me means performing at a high level consistently week in week out. There are always highlight reel players or players who have a great game now and again, but the best do it consistently every time.

Looking at the 6N's squad this year and thinking about 2023 and who might be there this is how I see it.

1: Mako's scrummaging has been shown up over the last 2 years since the world cup and he hasn't had a massive impact in the loose either. he will be 32 at the next WC and tbh I think he needs to find some form or you can't justify his selection. Genge has been very hot and cold and too inconsistent to be a reliable starter. Obano is tipped for big things, but it's definitely an area of concern. Mako shouldn't be anywhere near the summer tour and I'd start Obano to give him plenty of game time with Genge coming off the bench. For 2023 you could have any of these 3 depending on form/injuries. I think it will be too soon for Rodd. West might be another option though if he continues to play in form.
Summer - Obano/Genge
2023 - Obano/Genge/Mako (depending on form)

2: George in form is one of the best and LCD was one of the better players this tournament imo. This is an area that isn't of major concern, especially with Dunn in the wings and potentially Barbeary if he does actually play at 2. Summer maybe LCD and Dunn as I reckon George will go Lions. For 2023 it will still probably be George and LCD, though I feel Dunn deserves more chances.
Summer - LCD/Dunn
2023 - LCD/George

3: Sinckler in form is fantastic and Stuart has looked good coming off the bench. Only question for the summer if Sinckler is on Lions duty is who might be 3rd in line. Williams seemed to be, but Jones could well go for some younger players who have been mentioned. For 2023 barring injuries it will probably be Sinckler and Stuart.
Summer - Stuart + ??? (take your pick of young TH's)
2023 - Sinckler/Stuart

4&5: Tricky here as this selection needs a good balance. Itoje is no.1, though needs to give away less penalties. Hill had some good moments, but also some daft ones as well. Ewels look good, but nothing special. Launchbury & Lawes were pretty much injured for most of it and when Lawes wasn't he played 6. Kruis off in Japan. Martin and Ribbans also around the squad. Kruis and Lawes will be 33 & 34 in 2023 respectively, which for me is on the limit unless they are playing truly amazing rugby. For the summer I think launchbury and Ewels potentially with Hill/Ribbans/Isiekwe in the squad too. This is one area I think needs tidying up on selections as while there are plenty of options, apart from Itoje, it has been too inconsistent.
Summer - Launchbury/Ewels/Hill/Ribbans or Isiekwe
2023- Itoje/Launchbury/Ewels/ ? (this one is very open and dependent on too many factors)

6&7: Assuming Curry is with the Lions and potentially Underhill then who else should get a look in? Earl has looked good when he's come on, Jack Willis when fit again is a must. Hill has good potential. Barbeary can play here. Tom Willis is also an option. Ben Curry. Wilson, though for me he didn't look as good as he did before the WC. Evans for Harlequins. Underhill obviously and also Ludlum has been playing well. That's 11 into 2 really, though a few could also play 8 too. For the summer with Willis out then I'd like to see Ben Curry if fit with Earl. I'll also go Evans as back up as we know what Ludlum and Wilson can do and Barbeary and Willis might be better suited to 8. Hill for me is not quite up at the races. For 2023 we will have at least one curry and probably underhill, so then it's just who will be best to support.
Summer - B.Curry/Earl/Evans
2023 - T/B.Curry/Underhill/J.Willis/Earl

8: Billy just looks unfit and even his best has only been average to good this tournament. This is one of the key positions that needs replacing. Dombrandt and Simmonds have been tearing it up in the Prem. Mercer too, but he's off the France. T.Willis and Barbeary also looking good. For the summer I'd go Dombrandt and Simmonds. However potentially Barbeary for 2023 if he keeps going in the direction he is.
Summer - Dombrandt/Simmonds
2023 - Dombrandt/Simmonds/Barbeary

9: Another area that needs sorting. Youngs is Youngs, but we need something more. Robson didn't really take his chance when he got it, but wasn't given much chance either. I'd like to see Spencer and Randall for the summer as I think it would be good to see what they can do, then have another think for the Autumn based on performances. For 2023 I'd like Robson/Spencer/Randall, but I'm sure Youngs will find his way in. Too soon for JvP.
Summer - Spencer/Randall
2023 - Robson/Spencer/Randall

10: Yet another area that is an issue. Ford was an improvement on Farrell, but either he's not brave enough to stand up to Eddie or he's not confident enough against different opposition. Farrell was just crap. Smith and Simmonds need to be given a shot simple as that. I'd maybe have Ford on tour though for experience.
Summer - Ford/Smith
2023 - Smith/Simmonds

12&13: Issues again as there isn't a whole lot of talent for 12. Eddie has butchered this area allowing players to be capped by other countries. Farrell was crap, Lawrence not really given a chance. Slade looked good in attack, but poor defensively. Marchant and Odogwu in the squad but not used properly. I'd go Lawrence, Piers O'Conor, Marchant and Slade for the summer tour. Slade again provides experience and continuity. Northmore though could be in contention. No idea for 2023, depends if Farrell is dropped tbh.
Summer: Lawrence/O'Conor/Marchant/Slade
2023: No idea, need others to be given time to prove themselves. Slade is the only player currently who I think should definitely be there.

11&14: Watson looked great, May good, but not his best. No one else got a look in. For the summer there are some good young wings who could come through. Odogwu, Loader, Hassell-Collins, Thorley. Also Nowell if fit, McConnochie and Cokanasiga. For the summer I'd go with Hassell-Collins and Odogwu with McConnochie. For 2023 I think Watson and May hold the shirts, but form could play a part.
Summer - McConnochie/Hassell-Collins/Odogwu
2023 - Watson/May/McConnochie

15: Last big area. Daly is not a 15. Malins had some good moments, but didn't do enough to take the shirt. De Glanville, Steward, Hodge all looking good. Summer I'd take Malins and then one of the young 3. Tough to pick as they all look good. However I think Steward has been the most consistent.
Summer - Malins/Steward
2023 - Malins/one of the young 3

For me 2,3,4,5,6,7,11&14 have experience and depth enough that the summer tour should only be really about identifying backups and cementing those positions. 1,8,9,10,12,13 & 15 all need sorting and for me are areas of concern.
Think you missed Devoto at 12. Big with good hands.

Otherwise outstanding insight.
 
Think you missed Devoto at 12. Big with good hands.

Otherwise outstanding insight.
True, though unfortunately I think his ship has sailed with EJ. Haven't seen too much of the James brothers this season, but they always seemed to play well too.
 
Haven't seen too much of the James brothers this season, but they always seemed to play well too.
Neither should be anywhere near, really
Sam's been way off his best all season,
Luke playing better but not as good as last season - if they really wanted a utility back he could sneak in, but there are better options at 12 and 15 atm
 
Just looking at the backs for now, what would people say the weaknesses would be if we lined up with
9.Randall 10.Smith 12.O'Conor 13.Lawrence? Apart from international experience, or 9.Spencer 10.Simmonds 12.Devoto 13.Odogwu? Surely it wouldn't be worse than what we saw in the 6 nations?
 
Just looking at the backs for now, what would people say the weaknesses would be if we lined up with
9.Randall 10.Smith 12.O'Conor 13.Lawrence? Apart from international experience, or 9.Spencer 10.Simmonds 12.Devoto 13.Odogwu? Surely it wouldn't be worse than what we saw in the 6 nations?
Think the 12/13 has to be based on where we put the 2nd distributor.
10 Smith or Simmonds
12 Devoto
13 Lawrence
15 Malins or Slade

Or
10 as above
12 Devoto
13 Slade
15 Steward
 
It's a shame that Slade never looks as good at 12, he's tailor made for the position but it just never works out
I see Slade as a Conrad Smith type.
His vision brings other people into play. Being slightly wider and deeper gives him even more time to weigh up the move.
 
I see Slade as a Conrad Smith type.
His vision brings other people into play. Being slightly wider and deeper gives him even more time to weigh up the move.
He would be helped by having a nonu/Tuilagi type inside. But as we don't have that what happens with him? Lawrence/Devoto probably wont give him the more space he needs to flourish, maybe big Joe or Steward coming into the midfield would help him more.
 
Is JJ completely out of contention for England now?
 
1.Alec Hepburn
2.luke Cowan Dickie
3.Will Stuart
4.jonny hill
5.nick isiekwe
6. Ben Earl
7.Will Evans
8.Sam Simmonds
9.Harry Randall
10.Marcus Smith
11.Jack Nowell
12.Ollie Devoto
13.Piers O'Connor
14.Ollie Thorley
15.Max Malins
 
Is JJ completely out of contention for England now?
He was in the reserve squad IIRC, but saw Marchant called up ahead of him.
He's not been in good form (okay, but not good) for a while now, which doesn't help - hopefully the arrival of Cipriani at Bath will help rejuvinate him - in which case I can easily see him coming back; but he'll need a jump in form.
 
The thing that amazes me about JJ is when he does actually have space he is deceptively fast, like REALLY fast. We just see it very rarely but I'd wager he could outpace most 13's and a fair few wingers.
 
The thing that amazes me about JJ is when he does actually have space he is deceptively fast, like REALLY fast. We just see it very rarely but I'd wager he could outpace most 13's and a fair few wingers.
A few years ago yes, but I haven't seen that pace from him (in an england shirt at least) since about 2018
 
A few years ago yes, but I haven't seen that pace from him (in an england shirt at least) since about 2018
Aye, that's what I was thinking
I know when he burst on to the scene he was very rapid and all the talk was that he put most wingers to shame - not seen that in a while, however he's had some injuries and England and Bath have both been through some low points.

I've always rated JJ massively, and I don't think Slade has made himself undroppable with his performances, but I'm not sure whether he'll make it back in as Slade is already there as the experienced 13 (even though he feels like the new guy on the scene) and JJ will be 30 in May so coaches will probably look at younger guys (i.e. Marchant leapfrogging him in the pecking order)

Who knows, though - if Slade makes the Lions tour then there'll be a spot for an experienced head in the midfield for the summer
 
A few years ago yes, but I haven't seen that pace from him (in an england shirt at least) since about 2018
I've seen it a few times with Bath, the problem is most of the time I've seen it he is chasing someone else who has the ball and is belting along as fast as they can so they are the centre of attention. He has kept up with our wingers running support lines (that aren't used) a few times though.
 
Yeah, I rate Evans really highly as well

I've not listened to it but EJ did a podcast/interview with Hartley and namedropped players he's looking to try:
Charlie Atkinson, Marcus Smith, Finn Smith, and Joe Simmonds
I can't imagine we'll take 4 flyhalves to America, but if we took M.Smith and one of the others then that'd be brill

Also namedropped George Martin, so I imagine he'll be a starter over the summer

There really is some incredible young talent coming through. Reckon he will take some young 9's too? I'd love to see Quirke and JvP in an England shirt.
 

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