SuperRugby: Crusaders v Reds. 06/05/2012

[admartian]

Watch it if you get the chance, because Gill was outstanding at the breakdown. Sometimes his over-enthusiasm caused him to give away penalties at crucial times.

This guy is going to give us trouble in the future, unless a NH club makes him an offer he can't refuse.

This.



Though as long as double agent Deans continues with the plan the we should be 'right.

 

[Aedaphon]

This guy is going to give us trouble in the future, unless a NH club makes him an offer he can't refuse.

^ The Northern Hemisphere

 

[madflyhalf]

Thanks!

What impressed me of Gill, this season, is his supporting game, his running lines remind me a bit of another 7... who uses to wear black.

Don't kill me D), after all I'm neutral (even if I use to support Aus rugby), and I think that's clear the best player in the last 15 years at least, is that one (the latter mentioned before), but after watching this teenager playing (a couple of schools and u.19 games on youtube, and now as starting flanker of the Reds) I have a couple of thoughts about his future...


The path is long and very difficult, but he's really a promise for his country.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

What impressed me of Gill, this season, is his supporting game, his running lines remind me a bit of another 7... who uses to wear black.

Are you telling me Gill was constantly lying on the wrong side of the ruck, playing the ball with his hands, coming in from the side etc?

 

[madflyhalf]

 

[smartcooky]

Are you telling me Gill was constantly lying on the wrong side of the ruck, playing the ball with his hands, coming in from the side etc?

Yep, just like Pocock!

 

[Rhyer]

This.



Though as long as double agent Deans continues with the plan the we should be 'right.

HAHAHA! Beautiful! Warren was also part of the plan wasn't he? 3 Kiwi coaches in the semis vs the French, we never stood a chance!

 

[admartian]

Are you telling me Gill was constantly lying on the wrong side of the ruck, playing the ball with his hands, coming in from the side etc?

Oh you mean like every other number 7 in the world? :lol:

HAHAHA! Beautiful! Warren was also part of the plan wasn't he? 3 Kiwi coaches in the semis vs the French, we never stood a chance!

Lol lucky to escape that semi against Wales, so nothing to do with that!

 

[madflyhalf]

Being watch this game now...

Well, I've read comment about the scoring chart, few points, NH vs SH fans, when defences come up score will be low, no try like NH games, whatever... the same old story!

I'm firmly convinced (and I think you'll agree with me) that the difference is not necessarly the tries scored, or sometimes softly conceded, but the attitude of the teams, the willing to attack wherever there is space or men, no matters where you are (well, not always!)!
Each player, from 1 to 22, in the most SuperXV teams, first of all must have attacking skills (view, thinking capability, agility, handling and instinct of course), that are required at this level and should be in any elite rugby championship; this, alongside few attacking structures (not too much, because there is more room for "play what's in front of you" if skills are equally shared in the team), should make a good super rugby side.

The idea I made watching 8 years fo super rugby and 13y of 3N, these skills are "stressed" at international side, and well integrated with many more defensive ones (I mean team defence strategies, not individual defence), more sophisticated and difficult to apply.

Personally I think the positive approach of Super rugby is: "To win, we have to score more points than our opponents. So we need scoring, after all", while some of the NH championships seem played thinking "Ok, if we keep them at nil, there are more chances to win".

Both can be winning approaches, but after all I'm not surprised that all innovations in the game (tactics, individual and team skills, attacking structures) came mostly from NZ and AU unions!


Yes, Crusaders vs. Reds it's been a low scoring match, but at min 27 time seems have flown and I'm enjoying so much this game... despite Bryce Lawrence!


I can't even look at Wasps vs. Falcons, where the latters should have scored 4 tries to avoid relegation and... it looked like a ping-pong match!!!


Anyway, until the minute I paused, Reds are playing well, Lawrence has been spotted on but 1 penalty at scrum that didn't exist at all, but IMO Lawrence never realized how a scrum works!


argh! Taylor's offside after Dagg knocked on!!! good ol' Bryce

 

[madflyhalf]

God.
That penalty against Gill is a blasphemy.

"Ruck!" my a**! Gill's got his hands on the ball since the dinosaurs era!!!

Lawrence shouted "ruck" and blowed his whistle immediatly, extremely suspicious... Please have the good sense to wait for the common man's reflex... after all neither you, dear Bryce, have synapses like highways inside your head!!


Ok I finshed to watch it... could have gone to Reds, but they were less disciplined than Crusaders, though one penalty was not given (obstruction by McCaw) and the Gill's one, other times Lawrence gave them to the Reds.

Fair result.


But there has been a total mess at bd (and in a couple of scrums), please sack Lawrence he almost spoiled the game!

 

[Hulk Hogan]

I suspect cheating, foul play, bribery, the Mafia and Pee Wee Herman were involved in the Reds loss, more so than the lack of points.

 

[smartcooky]

.... though one penalty was not given (obstruction by McCaw) and the Gill's one, other times Lawrence gave them to the Reds.

I hope you are not talking about the one where he's running in a support line and Justin Marshall makes some offhand remark about him getting in the way?

If so, then you can't call that obstruction. Support runners have as much right to run their support line as defenders have to run their defensive line. If you stop that from happening, the attackers will never be allowed to run support lines because all that would happen is defenders who had no chance to get to the ball carrier would just rush up to the neared support runner, bump into him and claim obstruction. We already see that with decoy runners; certain players deliberately run into the decoy then throw their hands up in mock despair claiming obstruction (Tom Carter, I'm looking at you lad!!).

If you penalise what McCaw did all the time, you would end up with a lot more ball carriers getting isolated and turnovers resulting; and you know what happens when you get lots of breakdown turnovers, you get coaches unwilling to have their players go into contact, so instead of running the ball we go back to the kick-fests of 2009.

But there has been a total mess at bd (and in a couple of scrums), please sack Lawrence he almost spoiled the game!

Its already happened at the top level of the game, and IMO, its only a matter of time before he's gone from Super Rugby. Be patient.

 

[madflyhalf]

Well the first meters ran by McCaw seemed in front of Carter and obstructing Gill, but maybe I don't remember well! I'll take another look...

Anyway Gill made the same in a couple of rucks (take away one of the guard defenders), they went unnoticed... this makes me happy: he's on the right way!



I was wandering the Reds with a honest scrummaging prop (who can play at both sides) and Stephen Moore back in Qld jersey...
Ben Alexander or Sekope Kepu.

This forward pack, as solid as they played in the last 2 or 3 games, will set this team definitely on fire for 3-4 years!

 

[Cave Dweller]

God.
That penalty against Gill is a blasphemy.

"Ruck!" my a**! Gill's got his hands on the ball since the dinosaurs era!!!

Lawrence shouted "ruck" and blowed his whistle immediatly, extremely suspicious... Please have the good sense to wait for the common man's reflex... after all neither you, dear Bryce, have synapses like highways inside your head!!


Ok I finshed to watch it... could have gone to Reds, but they were less disciplined than Crusaders, though one penalty was not given (obstruction by McCaw) and the Gill's one, other times Lawrence gave them to the Reds.

Fair result.


But there has been a total mess at bd (and in a couple of scrums), please sack Lawrence he almost spoiled the game!

No he nailed him for not releasing the player or giving him time to place it.

15.4 THE TACKLER
(a) When a player tackles an opponent and they both go to ground, the tackler must immediately release the tackled player.
Sanction: Penalty kick

15.6 OTHER PLAYERS
(c) Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick

While we at it lets post the others as well as I know some mug posted it at GAGR with a long list of so called errors he made.

offside

still offside

Still offside

See hands on the ground. Ball not in yet

There he lift it.

Ball in the scrum hands on the ground again from the MOANING Reds.

There is the block.

Accidental offside. As you can see nowhere is there a Reds player close to play that ball. They are not even in the picture there. That is why Bryce said "No one close enough to play it"

 

[madflyhalf]

If you have ears to hear, you can hear Bryce Lawrence shouting "ruck" and then penalize Gill for "ruck is formed".

If you watch the video and NOT look at 2 (smart taken) pictures, you can realize that Gill tackles (becoming the tackler) -> stands up on his feet -> while opening his arms, giving the player the chance to place the ball.

This "rule" is, nowhere in the laws book, it only says "the tackler must immediately release the tackled player" there is nothing about allowing to place the ball, in the moment the tackler releases the tackled player, the latter can do anything he wants to, playing solitary, twittering or whatelse!


The first one is a clear obstruction, IMO, because McCaw was running in front of Carter obstructing Gill.

The second you posted was by Todd, and of course it wasn't, but I haven't mentioned yet.
I was referring to the second from McCaw, same situation after lineout.

 

[Cave Dweller]

If you have ears to hear, you can hear Bryce Lawrence shouting "ruck" and then penalize Gill for "ruck is formed".

If you watch the video and NOT look at 2 (smart taken) pictures, you can realize that Gill tackles (becoming the tackler) -> stands up on his feet -> while opening his arms, giving the player the chance to place the ball.



The first one is a clear obstruction, IMO, because McCaw was running in front of Carter obstructing Gill.

The second you posted was by Todd, and of course it wasn't, but I haven't mentioned yet.
I was referring to the second from McCaw, same situation after lineout.

If you watch the video and NOT look at 2 (smart taken) pictures, you can realize that Gill tackles (becoming the tackler) -> stands up on his feet -> while opening his arms, giving the player the chance to place the ball.

Smart taken pictures? So you are attacking the source now. You are getting desperate now really. Those images were extracted from the frames of that video clip using TVC and converting it to a gif file and then extracted the frames from the Gif with Infranviewer. Do you want me to upload all 80 of them and post it here? Like I said your starting to get desperate. I posted the images which has to do with the infringement and it easier to see. So no it is not smart taken pictures. Its that video frames just turned into JPEG pictures. What next? Photoshop?

This "rule" is, nowhere in the laws book, it only says "the tackler must immediately release the tackled player" there is nothing about allowing to place the ball, in the moment the tackler releases the tackled player, the latter can do anything he wants to, playing solitary, twittering or whatelse!

Again you are getting desperate and you did not clearly read what I wrote.

So again.

15.4 THE TACKLER
(a) When a player tackles an opponent and they both go to ground, the tackler must immediately release the tackled player.
Sanction: Penalty kick

15.6 OTHER PLAYERS
(c) Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick

That is the duty's of the tackler. The tackled player also has laws it has to abide to. But he can not perform them when the tackler do not give him that chance. So he will get penalized. Really silly mistake from a inexperienced player because if he allowed him to place that ball the penalty would have been the other way.

The first one is a clear obstruction, IMO, because McCaw was running in front of Carter obstructing Gill.

So your are saying the referee should have guessed and taken into account the speed of Carter vs the speed of Gill then substracted the wind factor, the field lay out and angle to the point of impact and would have concluded that Gill was running at a angle backwards with the intention to stop Carter behind the advantage line?

 

[admartian]

The length of people go to, to hate on another country's rugby team(s) is amazing. :lol:


"It's not hate <INSERT FALSE JUSTIFICATION HERE>".

*sigh*


This is is like 2, nearing on 3, games ago.