The EPS squad stat thread - Rd. 6

[Vieux Talonneur]

Take the simple act of a completed pass.

What that doesn't tell you is whether it would have been better to take contact instead, if the smart pass was actually to player A not player B, whether it stalled the move by making the recipient stop mid stride, whether it was a miss pass that blew an overlap....

Stats may show how busy a player is, but not necessarily how effective they are as a rugby player. I'm sure we've all worked with colleagues who are busy, busy, busy but actually achieve s*d all.

As I say, should be used with extreme caution.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Depends on the stat. When talking about the back three you can just look at, meters made, clean breaks and defenders beaten. If you have a guy who tops all of them then you have to look at them.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Depends on the stat. When talking about the back three you can just look at, meters made, clean breaks and defenders beaten. If you have a guy who tops all of them then you have to look at them.

Of course you do, but someone topping all those should be well on any semi competent coach's radar regardless.

I guess I'm scarred by remembering Rowntree pretty much describing Parling as world class based on his stats.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

End of the world as we know it, lads.
Tommy Taylor has.....missed a tackle.
Did make 19 though, the most of anyone in that game.


Cipriani had 16 and missed 3, 100% kick percentage.

 

[Peat]

Any chance of an update Rats?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Err.... not today, might be able to do one tomorrow.

 

[Which Tyler]

Would be interesting to see now we know the EPS. Probably wait for this weekend's matches to complete and be analysed first though.

 

[ratsapprentice]

This weekend's matches won't affect it because they aren't premiership matches.

 

[Which Tyler]

OK - hadn't realised you were keeping it to Prem only.
Makes sense to I guess, as the level of competition is so much more variable away from the Prem; where some play against Toulon, Clermont etc; and others against Bucharest etc.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Well.. yeah... and that doing the Euro games takes a lot longer....

 

[ratsapprentice]

Kicking stats and players not in the new EPS (those in grey) not updated since Rd. 6.

Bear in mind some players have been injured for a few rds, notably Slade, Ewers and LCD.

Interesting stat to note... on average, per game Nowell beats 12.5 times the number of defenders as Ashton does.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Interesting stat to note... on average, per game Nowell beats 12.5 times the number of defenders as Ashton does.

Ashton couldn't sidestep a lamppost so not suprising. Also shows how misleading stats are comparing Farrell to Ford in tackles.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That goes without saying, but..... twelve and a half... :lol:

 

[j'nuh]

re: Beaumont, I'm impressed. Nearly double the meters run compared to Vunipola in the same number of runs, whilst also not being turned over as much. Would like him to carry a bit more, but I suppose some of his time is played at lock? Maybe a couple of 50 meter runs are included, but still, not bad.

That goes without saying, but..... twelve and a half...

:lol:

Brookes has beaten more defenders than Ashton, and played ~250 fewer minutes...

 

[Peat]

Most of the Sarries forwards seem to have fairly high turnover conceded stats. Having watched them struggle at the breakdown with a genuinely barely Pro 12 standard Ulster back row, I'm now going to harbour doubts about their clearing out and support play until I see otherwise.

edit: Saints forwards don't look too great either.

 

[Jakedood]

Most of the Sarries forwards seem to have fairly high turnover conceded stats. Having watched them struggle at the breakdown with a genuinely barely Pro 12 standard Ulster back row, I'm now going to harbour doubts about their clearing out and support play until I see otherwise.

edit: Saints forwards don't look too great either.

Exactly, Bar Diack, that was 2 key members of our back row missing (though we had a very mobile front row!)

Also looking at farrell v Ford.. it seems like Farrell is making breaks but they're not from beating defenders on his own, but rather from seeing massive gaps created from the big ball carrying units and simply having the sense to run through those gaps, whereas Ford has actually beaten 9 Defenders this season. That's absolutely huge for a 10!

Also Farrell's tackling technique isn't particularly brilliant, as although stronger than Ford, he still goes too high for me and gets shrugged off because of it, just he puts up more of a fight than Ford when it happens!

Ashton... LOL!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Can you send these stats to Eddi Jones, you know in case he thinks Ashton is international quality.

And this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ounwaeeDU

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Anyone else confused by the number of turnovers conceded by Kvesic? 8 compared to Haskell's 0, Fraser's 2, Robshaw's 3, etc. Might be a symptom of having a struggling pack around him. Still the only back row to have more turnovers conceded than won.

Apart from Beaumont (6-0 ), Clifford (2-0), Morgan (4-1) and Vunipola (7-2). Oops.

It might reflect, I suppose,weaker forwards in the case of Sale and Gloucester, carries out wide with Beaumont and maul turnovers for Vunipola?

That casts a bit of shade at Clifford for openside- and adds to Haskell's case, annoyingly. Haskell is on 6 turnovers for 0 conceded. Maybe where the muscle mass over mobility comes in.

 

[j'nuh]

Stat request. Any way, in future updates, that the "minutes played" column can be coloured? It looks like that when it was greyed it for the internationals, under the minutes played column, it revealed the number of games played by each player. (e.g. Wade has 11 passes in 4 games, whereas May has 17 passes in 5.3 games. It's a lot more intuitive for comparison than minutes played!)

Most of the Sarries forwards seem to have fairly high turnover conceded stats. Having watched them struggle at the breakdown with a genuinely barely Pro 12 standard Ulster back row, I'm now going to harbour doubts about their clearing out and support play until I see otherwise.

edit: Saints forwards don't look too great either.

Hmm? Billy Vunipola is high, and Kruis relatively high, the rest are fairly middling. George, Mako and Itoje look high, but per game, they are actually middling. They have just got more game time than the rest.

Either way, not sure how much you can read into that particular statistic given the low numbers.

Anyone else confused by the number of turnovers conceded by Kvesic? 8 compared to Haskell's 0, Fraser's 2, Robshaw's 3, etc. Might be a symptom of having a struggling pack around him. Still the only back row to have more turnovers conceded than won.

Apart from Beaumont (6-0 ), Clifford (2-0), Morgan (4-1) and Vunipola (7-2). Oops.

It might reflect, I suppose,weaker forwards in the case of Sale and Gloucester, carries out wide with Beaumont and maul turnovers for Vunipola?

That casts a bit of shade at Clifford for openside- and adds to Haskell's case, annoyingly. Haskell is on 6 turnovers for 0 conceded. Maybe where the muscle mass over mobility comes in.

Turnovers conceded may be more reflective of the team than the individual. There's not much a carrier can do to stop a turnover. Options are conceding a turnover, or conceding a penalty for hanging on.

Worst case scenario, it punishes players for doing well. If you make a lot of meters, you may be more likely to be isolated and turned over. I wouldn't recommend to players to stop making lots of meters because there's a worry you'll be turned over!

That said, it would be interesting to see a breakdown of how those turnovers happen. I rarely criticise the carrier for losing it in the breakdown, but if those turnovers include a number of dropped balls and such, that might be more worrying.

 

[ratsapprentice]

You do know what a turnover conceded is, Orange?
Knocking the ball on and having the opposition pick it up is one example.

The turnovers won stat is one I'm actually slightly confused about, I think it's down to the same issue we've all had on here, whereby penalties conceded by the opposition due to attempted jackals are not counted as turnovers.

See here for my confusion:

The stats I have used in the spreadsheet are the stats that PRL publish on their website and are supplied by Opta.
But in the tables they provide, they don't include jackals that lead to penalties - only ones that are clean.

Kvesic was also listed as having won something like 10 turnovers after round 6 on a BT sport pop-up at the time, whereas he only had 4 according to the PRL website listings.

This is the only stat that has this issue, as far as I am aware, however.
And it is still a generally good indicator of who is making the most turnovers, IMO.

Stat request. Any way, in future updates, that the "minutes played" column can be coloured? It looks like that when it was greyed it for the internationals, under the minutes played column, it revealed the number of games played by each player. (e.g. Wade has 11 passes in 4 games, whereas May has 17 passes in 5.3 games. It's a lot more intuitive for comparison than minutes played!)

Probably not, sorry.

That number is simply the total minutes played by each player divided by 80 - not the number of individual games a player has played in.
It's only used to work out the average per game stats.