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The Forbidden Fruits of Louis Rees-Zammit ; )

Old Hooker

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Now if Wales had an English-qualified scrumhalf tearing up the Premiership, that's a situation where Eddie would actually go a-poaching. ;)
No he wouldn’t, he’d pick Youngs.

This is a non story. Does anyone think any of the home nations don’t keep a v close eye on emerging talent who may be eligible for them? I’ll bet casual conversations happen all the time. LRZ has very publicly said that he wants to play for Wales; good on him for nailing his colours to the mast so clearly, but having done so I wouldn’t want him anywhere near the rose out of principle if he did change his mind. I’m petty like that.

Pretty funny considering the first thing Pivac did for Wales was cap two bang average Kiwis ;)
They’ve got previous for that - the words Howarth and Sinkinson keep springing to mind. :)
 

themole25

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I’m torn on whether education should count towards new nation eligibility.

On one hand attending a university in another country is a huge personal experience and you definitely take on the characteristics of that country. On the other, if you return home to your parents during breaks you are essentially on a 4 year vacation.

I believe regulation 8 follows that line of though. If you are not a financially independent student going to school in another country does not create residency in that new country or stop your residency with your parents country.

Per the regulation, I’m not sure zammit’s time at hartbury counts as residency.
 

Not Eddie Jones

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I’m torn on whether education should count towards new nation eligibility.

On one hand attending a university in another country is a huge personal experience and you definitely take on the characteristics of that country. On the other, if you return home to your parents during breaks you are essentially on a 4 year vacation.

I believe regulation 8 follows that line of though. If you are not a financially independent student going to school in another country does not create residency in that new country or stop your residency with your parents country.

Per the regulation, I’m not sure zammit’s time at hartbury counts as residency.
Is residency in rugby related to playing for a team? Hartpury College have a team in the Championship every year, and of course LRZ is at Gloucester at the mo'. So maybe years playing for a professional team count towards residency in a particular country, rather than how much time you actually spend there outside of rugby? After all, I'm sure some of the Saffers, Kiwis etc who have qualified on residency for the home nations go home for long periods during the rugby offseason and just live in England, Wales etc during the season, making it rather like term-time.

Regardless, LRZ has said he wants to play for Wales, Welsh fans want him to play for Wales and Wales want him to play for Wales (presumably! :confused:). So he's gonna play for Wales, end of. All the rest is just media noise.
 

scotty507

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Ed Slater on the Eggchasers podcast said LRZ is Welsh through and though and wont be tempted. I think we kind of knew anyway that he wasnt coming to England and good on him for sticking to his guns and not chasing the money.
 

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Just for the sake of competition It would be a travesty if he did choose England. We only have a limited number of talent to choose from , England on the other hand have a massive pool of talent in comparison.and are a financial powerhouse . There is absolutely no reason for England to be potentially poaching a Welsh Prospect.
 

MikeTheNative

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As the saying goes 'all is fair in love and war.................................... and professional rugby' I don't think you can blame England for checking up on potential players. It may seem 'unfair' but there are other unions, namely the islanders who are getting it even worse. Their are reports that Wales are going to pick Nick Tompkins, is his decision purely down to the sudden discovered love of Wales? Or is it a career move due to the extra money + exposure being an international brings.
 

TRF_Olyy

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I can ‘understand’ if a guy from one country ‘chooses’ to rep someone else if he knows he will struggle to make the grade at his nation of birth... or if his country of birth isn’t one of the top tier nations (& my judgement here could well be swayed by my subjective viewpoint)... but if those two things don’t apply and the player simply opts for what in this case i would imagine would be financial incentive, the only endgame I can see is.... wwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy down the road Wales (as the financial powerhouse) being a world XV and the other national teams being made up of the rest (whom Wales didn’t fancy). I know this probably sounds overly alarmist... and in fairness if you’ve read my posts in the past you’ll know that I am particularly fond of hyperbole, so understand that when reading the ‘endgame’ scenario... but this story just leaves a real bitter taste in the mouth.
 

scotty507

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So in what way is Tompkins Welsh?
 

Not Eddie Jones

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I can ‘understand’ if a guy from one country ‘chooses’ to rep someone else if he knows he will struggle to make the grade at his nation of birth... or if his country of birth isn’t one of the top tier nations (& my judgement here could well be swayed by my subjective viewpoint)... but if those two things don’t apply and the player simply opts for what in this case i would imagine would be financial incentive, the only endgame I can see is.... wwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy down the road Wales (as the financial powerhouse) being a world XV and the other national teams being made up of the rest (whom Wales didn’t fancy). I know this probably sounds overly alarmist... and in fairness if you’ve read my posts in the past you’ll know that I am particularly fond of hyperbole, so understand that when reading the ‘endgame’ scenario... but this story just leaves a real bitter taste in the mouth.
Wales as a financial powerhouse? o_O Wales and a World XV in the same sentence? :eek: A touch alarmist, yes. :p
 

TRF_Olyy

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bushytop

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I can ‘understand’ if a guy from one country ‘chooses’ to rep someone else if he knows he will struggle to make the grade at his nation of birth... or if his country of birth isn’t one of the top tier nations (& my judgement here could well be swayed by my subjective viewpoint)... but if those two things don’t apply and the player simply opts for what in this case i would imagine would be financial incentive, the only endgame I can see is.... wwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy down the road Wales (as the financial powerhouse) being a world XV and the other national teams being made up of the rest (whom Wales didn’t fancy). I know this probably sounds overly alarmist... and in fairness if you’ve read my posts in the past you’ll know that I am particularly fond of hyperbole, so understand that when reading the ‘endgame’ scenario... but this story just leaves a real bitter taste in the mouth.
Tomkins fits that bill really... if he even had a glimmer of hope with England there is no way he would even consider repping Wales.

Look I'm against these going ons on the whole but it does go on a lot in our sport. In my original post I just tried to convey that the LRZ case would be taking it to another level, due to the fact that it doesn't fit with the much used mitigating circumstances (which you've included in your post).

I get that some people see no difference between if LRZ had repped England and if Tompkins reps Wales but in my humble opinion they are. Also, as much as I wish no bad performances or anything like that on Tomkins, I'd much rather a native get the call.
 

bushytop

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Also, as i never really watch much Premiership... what sort of player is Tomkins. He's been drafted due to our shortage of 13's... is that his position or does he also play 12 etc?
 
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bushytop

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I did. Twice before posting and again just now. Still didn't understand it, sorry. :oops:
@TRF_Olyy took a bit from my OP and exchanged England for Wales in an effort to show that a 'similar'(ish) thing to what I started this thread about (LRZ) has happened but on the opposite footing.

It's quite funny in fairness and I get it... but both cases (LRZ & Tomkins) are quite different in my opinion.
 

Not Eddie Jones

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@TRF_Olyy took a bit from my OP and exchanged England for Wales in an effort to show that a 'similar'(ish) thing to what I started this thread about (LRZ) has happened but on the opposite footing.

It's quite funny in fairness and I get it... but both cases (LRZ & Tomkins) are quite different in my opinion.
Ah, I see! My bad, I get it now. :)
 

scotty507

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@TRF_Olyy took a bit from my OP and exchanged England for Wales in an effort to show that a 'similar'(ish) thing to what I started this thread about (LRZ) has happened but on the opposite footing.

It's quite funny in fairness and I get it... but both cases (LRZ & Tomkins) are quite different in my opinion.
I wasnt a fan of us trying to take LRZ but Wales ended up taking 3 English players who have grannys that were Welsh. And 12 is problem position for us. He plays for sarries at 12 but he is also a 13. But like i said about LRZ its the players choice so we cant really kick off.

Random question what is the current rules on playing for Wales if you play in the prem.
 

bushytop

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Sorry, I didn’t hit reply... so in that case @scotty507 In fairness WGJ did live here for years and do all his schooling here... the other two are just clear cut cases of players who must’ve felt like they were never gonna get picked for their actual country and because of that were willing to commit elsewhere. It’s not ideal... for either country but it happens I guess.

As far as the rules around Welsh players playing in the Premiership... until the 60 cap rule is officially changed, I assume it’s the same as it has been for a while. Now obviously Tomkins, Rowlands & John (& even Webb) dont have enough caps but there are ‘loopholes’ ie. Webb has (to my knowledge) signed a contract to return to the Ospreys and is therefore free to be selected again... and Tomkins, Rowlands and John are yet to receive any caps and would fall into the loophole exploited by Josh Adams, Tomos Francis and Rhys Carre. If they had of had even one cap and then signed a contact outside of Wales (Francis has an extension option written into his original contact apparently and that’s why he could re-up with Exeter) they wouldn’t have been able to be selected. It’s all very convoluted and needs to be looked at again if you ask most Welshmen.
 
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