The next great fly half

[Darwin]

Daniel Carter probably has another World Cup left in him after this (he probably won't be at his best). I'd agree with ranger that Beuden Barrett is going to be a class player. I can't see Cruden becoming world class in the next few years, while I think Anscombe has all the skills to be the best but he really underperformed in the last JWC (despite him getting best player) as he didn't run the backline as well as previous players like Cruden and Bleyendaal.

Quade Cooper is a very different player to Daniel Carter. Cooper can look amazing and then average within two weeks apart and his defense has never looked good. Daniel Carter always plays well. It's a bit similar to me as the argument of Carlos Spencer v Andrew Mehrtens. Mehrtens had the best kicking game in the world, was an underrated runner and would take contol of games. Spencer on the other hand pulled out little bits of tricky magic that no other player could/was dumb enough to try, and it paid off, but he was never consistant.

I too like the look of Barrett, though it is very difficult to judge how a player will go until they have had a few seasons of Super Rugby behind them: the likes of Dan Kirkpatrick, Stephen Brett, Trent Renata et al. were stars in age-grade rugby, but have failed to step up to the next level. I actually don't think Cruden is too far away from being world class; I've been incredibly impressed with his improvement this season. Anyone who can go from arguably the worst NZ goal-kicker in the competition last year to (statistically at least) NZ's best goal-kicker this year (kicking at 80%) obviously works incredibly hard on their game. The length of his punting has also impressed at times this year. If he continues this sort of improvement I expect he will be a very good (if not world-class) All Blacks 10 within the next couple of years.

I'm not convinced at all by Anscombe; he has a great kicking game, but (as Nickdnz suggests) has never really shown any ability to run a backline (this includes his appearances for Auckland last year). He will certainly get a good chance at 10 for the Blues next year.

 

[Sam Owen]

Carlos Spencer v Andrew Mehrtens.

Both King Carlos and Mehrts were better than Slade and Cruden IMO (I know thats off the subject, thought I'd throw it out there).

 

[nickdnz]

I too like the look of Barrett, though it is very difficult to judge how a player will go until they have had a few seasons of Super Rugby behind them: the likes of Dan Kirkpatrick, Stephen Brett, Trent Renata et al. were stars in age-grade rugby, but have failed to step up to the next level. I actually don't think Cruden is too far away from being world class; I've been incredibly impressed with his improvement this season. Anyone who can go from arguably the worst NZ goal-kicker in the competition last year to (statistically at least) NZ's best goal-kicker this year (kicking at 80%) obviously works incredibly hard on their game. The length of his punting has also impressed at times this year. If he continues this sort of improvement I expect he will be a very good (if not world-class) All Blacks 10 within the next couple of years.

I'm not convinced at all by Anscombe; he has a great kicking game, but (as Nickdnz suggests) has never really shown any ability to run a backline (this includes his appearances for Auckland last year). He will certainly get a good chance at 10 for the Blues next year.

I still think this is very misleading. Keep in mind that Cruden isn't in the top 10 points scorers. From memory, most of his kicks have also been from right in front as the Hurricanes have tended to run it underneath the posts for conversions. Not saying he is bad, I just think that he hits the line and then looks for options rather than sets up play well. I think the Hurricanes would have probably done better with Slade than with Cruden.

 

[Darwin]

I still think this is very misleading. Keep in mind that Cruden isn't in the top 10 points scorers. From memory, most of his kicks have also been from right in front as the Hurricanes have tended to run it underneath the posts for conversions. Not saying he is bad, I just think that he hits the line and then looks for options rather than sets up play well. I think the Hurricanes would have probably done better with Slade than with Cruden.

I agree that Cruden did get a lot of easy kicks, but importantly he (generally) slotted these kicks. I still think he has a way to go with his goal-kicking, but he has shown huge improvement from last season (when he was kicking at around 55% from memory!). I agree he has a way to go in general play too, particularly in his ability to control a game, but the way he is improving has really impressed me. I never used to rate Cruden at all, but am starting to see what all coaches have been raving about.

I definately agree the Hurricanes would have done better with a full fit Slade rather than Cruden - I've been wanting Slade in my AB's 22 since the end of last years Super Rugby season (long before it became fashionable!)...

 

[irelandfan123]

Niall O'Conner ..................................................................................................................................................................................................... nah i'm just ******** with you :lol:

 

[UilamOsa]

Next Generation NZ first fives: Cruden > Bleyendahl > Barrett=Robinson
- Give it 3 years and we'll see who stays and who plays for england at the next world cup.

World's best?

Carter

Daylight

Steyn/Cooper

Hook

Lambie/Sexton

Moonlight

Merhtens

Spencer

Some random school boy under 15's First Five

Stephen Donald

 

[saderista]

Colin Slade, end of thread.

 

[Rhyer]

World's best?

Carter

Daylight

Steyn/Cooper

Hook

Lambie/Sexton

Moonlight

Merhtens

Spencer

Some random school boy under 15's First Five

Stephen Donald

I see what you did there.

 

[welshglory]

For Wales:

James Hook, i know hes already an experience player but he hasn't been given the 10 jersey for a substancial amount of time for a while so heres hoping
or
Matthew Jones, This guy is destined for greatness. Much more so than the overhyped Dan Biggar who everyone was raving about when he was in the U20s. Given a good centre combination outside him he could be the catalyst for welsh glory!

For England:
Danny Cipriani, Has all the attributes of a top fly half. Much more dynamic then any of the other English options. Started off great with the Rebels unfortunately he led to his own downfall. Hopefully will have a better season next year.

George Ford, I heard all the hype but hadn't seen him play until the U20s this year. And was impressed, one of the best kickers i've seen in a long time. In a few years i can definitely see him as the starting 10. And as early as next year i could see him battling hard with Flood for the Leicester 10 shirt.

(i know Owen Farrell played really well with Saracens and all but as you saw when he played with the U20s he is a 12)

Dont know much about other countries young fly halves so heres my input

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well, obviously there is Cooper, who had a better Super rugby season than Carter in 2011 but in saying taht I'd still pick Carter at test level at this stage. Carter is still young enough to be around for a while and who knows we might see some of his best rugby yet. Cooper has a long career ahead of him but like was pointed out earlier, it seems like he is undecided about what he wants to do or maybe that is just his agent's way of upping the money on offer.

After then there are Trin-Duc, Steyn, Flood, Hook, Sexton all who could still become great but with a few things to work on. Wilkinson also has something to offer though I wonder whether it would be worth it to have him around the test side much longer in terms of returns on your investment in game-time.

For SA, I hope Lambie and Sias Ebersohn stay around and get game-time at 10 in Super rugby. Steyn has looked average without FdP on his inside and these youngsters are much more rounded and I would love to see what they would have been capable of with Du Preez on their inside. Sadly, Du Preez is moving on after the RWC 2011 and we will probably see Steyn and Butch James at 10 for SA. Lambie will be in the squad but I predict he'll be vying for the 15/22 jersey with Frans Steyn. Anyways, it'd be good for Lambie to at least travel with the squad as any experience at test level is better than none. I just hope the Sharks play him at 10. With Michalak there we saw him move to 15 where he did well but SA needs him at 10 and I fear he will become the next Brent Russell/Ruan Pienaar/Frans Steyn; talented SA players moved around at the Sharks and getting disillusioned and not getting settled in any particular position. Sias Ebersohn is IMO the other candidate for the Springbok future 10 jersey (ahead of Lions 10 Elton Jantjes and SA u20 Johan Goosen); he has vision, good distribution, some pace and a very trained boot. He is small and needs a bit of work on his defense but he could very easily be BIG competition for Lambie for SA's flyhalf in the near future. Just hope he remains at the Free State with his brother and continues to get the game-time and continues to develop as he has. Being at the Free State, though means he might get targeted and end up playing on the bench elsewhere or go to Europe like just about every Free State 10 that I can remember. Players like Meyer Bosman and JLP most recently who showed a lot of promise but moved before they had developed enough to really keep going up.

 

[ranger]

I agree that Cruden did get a lot of easy kicks, but importantly he (generally) slotted these kicks. I still think he has a way to go with his goal-kicking, but he has shown huge improvement from last season (when he was kicking at around 55% from memory!). I agree he has a way to go in general play too, particularly in his ability to control a game, but the way he is improving has really impressed me. I never used to rate Cruden at all, but am starting to see what all coaches have been raving about.

I definately agree the Hurricanes would have done better with a full fit Slade rather than Cruden - I've been wanting Slade in my AB's 22 since the end of last years Super Rugby season (long before it became fashionable!)...

My question is, is it really improvement that we are seeing? or is it just that towards the end of the season was the first time in his career that he has been given a meaningfull stretch in the 10 jersey?

As a side note on Barrett v Anscome, its interesting to note that the Blues have again chased after Barretts signature above Anscomes..

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Matthew Jones, This guy is destined for greatness. Much more so than the overhyped Dan Biggar who everyone was raving about when he was in the U20s. Given a good centre combination outside him he could be the catalyst for welsh glory!

MATTHEW JONES? The 10 that would single-handedly lose the Dragons games week in, week out whilst Tovey was injured? He's like Dan Parks, but his kicking isn't even good, which sort of justifies why Parks keeps doing it. He doesn't deserve to go near a Newport RFC shirt, let alone a Wales shirt again.

Hopefully you mean Matthew Morgan.

 

[Easdon]

Dan Parks by a country mile... nah I can't even pretend to go along with that...

Cooper easily in the SH - Morne Steyn is boring whereas Quade shows real flair and just has that touch of brilliance about his game. Of course his tackling isn't great just now but it's something that gets highlighted so much more because of his position. It's summat that he's working hard at as well. There was an awesome feature done on him in Rugby World a while back, totally changed my opinion of him!

In the NH it's a bit trickier... Sexton looks the obvious choice, Flood in England... George Ford easily in a few years. Not heard much about Alex Blair recently but he's a quality player - ran over me a few times back at school...

 

[OnTheBall]

Now, I'm biased and Irish and I'm not saying Sexton is the best around or anything, but he's surely a better 10 than Hook!
You'd have to think that Cooper will be the next top dog, but Carter's got plenty of miles left on the clock and Cooper will never be as good as him overall, in my opinion.

 

[welshglory]

lol i meant matthew morgan my bad

 

[Edworthy10]

George Ford was head and shoulders above any other 10 at the U20 World Championships. He will no doubt be a future England 10 for many years to come.

Personally, I believe Anscombe is far overrated! A fantastic goal kicker he is, but apart from that he is nothing special whatsoever.

Wales' Matthew Morgan also needs a mention, although similar to Ford needs to bulk up before he can challenge for 1st team rugby.

 

[Stumpy]

I feel Owen Farrell will become will be the next big fly half for England he has everthing you could ever want from a fly half as he showed in this years preimership final where he played far better than Englands current fly half toby Flood

 

[McTallshort]

Now, I'm biased and Irish and I'm not saying Sexton is the best around or anything, but he's surely a better 10 than Hook!
You'd have to think that Cooper will be the next top dog, but Carter's got plenty of miles left on the clock and Cooper will never be as good as him overall, in my opinion.

Disagree, Sexton has had a good season and fair play to him. He can go one of 2 ways now: The Cipraini route (believes his own hype and fails) or becomes a great pro for region and Ireland but its too early to say he is better than Hook as I think he is the most exciting and gifted player in the NH although I think his best position is outside centre.

PS Lions back line for Aus 2013......9.Youngs, 10. Sexton, 12. Tuilagi, 13. Hook, 11. Earls, 14.Ashton, 15. Bowe.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tuilagi isn't a 12 and Bowe isn't a fullback...

 

[lynam1104]

Look I know I might sound Bias and all but I very much doubt Sexton will do what Cipraini did for 2 reasons; 1. He's a better player 2. Hes not a dick/cocky did dick.