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The psychology of choking

Ladies and Gentlemen ... due to sensitivity issues can we please stop with calling NZ Chokers, and can we focus on the original article. Many Thanks :)

Any further reference will result in the post being deleted.
 
If a team/athlete/player performs poorly than expected on the big stage is called a "choke", what about when a team/athlete/player performs exceedingly well at a big stage against all odds. What do u call that? What is the psychology behind that?
In some cases, not all, I think you witness a bit of both, or maybe there is no "choke", just a passage of sheer brilliance from the underdog.
 
If a team/athlete/player performs poorly than expected on the big stage is called a "choke", what about when a team/athlete/player performs exceedingly well at a big stage against all odds. What do u call that? What is the psychology behind that?
In some cases, not all, I think you witness a bit of both, or maybe there is no "choke", just a passage of sheer brilliance from the underdog.

I think that's the best post in the thread! Wow, no gimmicky silly joke, just a good fair analogy.
 
Ladies and Gentlemen ... due to sensitivity issues can we please stop with calling NZ Chokers, and can we focus on the original article. Many Thanks :)

Any further reference will result in the post being deleted.

Official Stance!

This thread is not an open invitation to constantly make NZ Chocking Jokes, it is to discuss the psychological implications of choking.

Any Further NZ Chocking Jokes will be dealt with a deletion an infraction.

STAY ON TOPIC!
 
Ladies and Gentlemen ... due to sensitivity issues can we please stop with calling NZ Chokers, and can we focus on the original article. Many Thanks :)

Any further reference will result in the post being deleted.

Actually if this thread is not about the psychology of choking in sports teams of all sorts and is just about the All Blacks choking, it may well have run it's course.

Seriously guys? Are you for realzzz?
This is a rugby forum, so naturally it might swing there, especially if you pay so much attention to it. I posted something about the Proteas, and then C A Iverson made his reply to it about the All Blacks... So who's the one flogging the dead horse?

Hang your heads in shame

r189381_710115.jpg


PS I promise that pic^ was a result of a random search!
 
what have Jeff Wilson, Doug Howlett, Christian Cullen, Jonah Lomu, Dan Carter, Andrew Mehrtens, Reuben Thorne, Richie McCaw, Tana Umaga, Joe Rokocoko, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Anton Oliver, Luke McAlister, Conrad Smith, Carlos Spencer, Aaron Mauger, Justin Marshall, Tony Woodcock, Carl Hayman, Keven Mealamu, Chris Jack, Ali Williams, Jerry Collins, Rodney So'oialo, Glen Osborne, John Mitchell and Graham Henry got in common???
 
Seriously guys? Are you for realzzz?
This is a rugby forum, so naturally it might swing there, especially if you pay so much attention to it. I posted something about the Proteas, and then C A Iverson made his reply to it about the All Blacks... So who's the one flogging the dead horse?

Hang your heads in shame

PS I promise that pic^ was a result of a random search!

That pic is too large for this discussion, please reduce it Steve-o. :D

Also, in reply to your post. This thread was becoming about one thing and one thing alone. Not 2-3 cheeky, but fair comments, not even 10, but pretty much a one-track thing going on and on. There's plenty to discuss.

I agree with your stance on the Proteas, great. Tiger Woods is also an athlete who seems to be going through a bad couple of years despite phenomenal skill. There have been times, where Federer has inexplicably lost, as have many athletes in many sports. Let's remember that if this thread is really about world sports.

Anyone reading this knows what it has been solely about to this point. Let's move on. :D


Personally I'm really interested in hearing if anyone does think Tiger will go back to even 70-80% of the wins he used to get. How much is it a mental game? Is he gone for what he was?
 
what have Jeff Wilson, Doug Howlett, Christian Cullen, Jonah Lomu, Dan Carter, Andrew Mehrtens, Reuben Thorne, Richie McCaw, Tana Umaga, Joe Rokocoko, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Anton Oliver, Luke McAlister, Conrad Smith, Carlos Spencer, Aaron Mauger, Justin Marshall, Tony Woodcock, Carl Hayman, Keven Mealamu, Chris Jack, Ali Williams, Jerry Collins, Rodney So'oialo, Glen Osborne, John Mitchell and Graham Henry got in common???

Victories over Wales?

Personally I'm really interested in hearing if anyone does think Tiger will go back to even 70-80% of the wins he used to get. How much is it a mental game? Is he gone for what he was?

I can't see him getting back on form. There is a lot of skill in a sport like golf, but it's a sport that a lot of the game can ride on confidence. Michael Campbell won the US Open in 2005, he's now not even in the top 100 current golfers. I think Tiger's confidence is shattered, his personal life seems to have taken a dive, and his professional life is obviously going to suffer.

In terms of choking in rugby, it'll be interesting to see how Wales go in a pool with both Fiji and Samoa. There has been a lot of talk about the French knocking New Zealand out in 1999 and 2007, but Wales seems not to get the same level of abuse when they have lost to both Samoa and Fiji in the 1999 and 2007 RWC respectively.

I think the term choking doesn't always apply to many cases. I think of choking as missing a kick that you'd usually get 10 times out of 10, and that costs you the game, however losing to a spirited team is just the nature of sport. In a sport like rugby, no matter what hype you go in with, you have eighty minutes to show what you're worth, and a team that may have been useless one week, may perform their hearts out the following.
 
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There is certainly one moment when one cheating twat and a French person (Nuff said) both choked and I as a Man Utd fan (Not a glory supporter) was very happy:

john_terry_misses_i_782047c.jpg
 
Victories over Wales?



I can't see him getting back on form. There is a lot of skill in a sport like golf, but it's a sport that a lot of the game can ride on confidence. Michael Campbell won the US Open in 2005, he's now not even in the top 100 current golfers. I think Tiger's confidence is shattered, his personal life seems to have taken a dive, and his professional life is obviously going to suffer.

In terms of choking in rugby, it'll be interesting to see how Wales go in a pool with both Fiji and Samoa. There has been a lot of talk about the French knocking New Zealand out in 1999 and 2007, but Wales seems not to get the same level of abuse when they have lost to both Samoa and Fiji in the 1999 and 2007 RWC respectively.

I think the term choking doesn't always apply to many cases. I think of choking as missing a kick that you'd usually get 10 times out of 10, and that costs you the game, however losing to a spirited team is just the nature of sport. In a sport like rugby, no matter what hype you go in with, you have eighty minutes to show what you're worth, and a team that may have been useless one week, may perform their hearts out the following.

I really thought for a fair while that golf would be better with more than one player doing well most of the time like Tiger was, but it's a shame to not see him winning a little more than he is. Apparently there are heaps of young guys who can out-drive him now and are catching up or surpassing him in aspects of his short game. Plus he just doesn't seem to be their mentally. You can see it in his eyes when he's speaking in interviews. He's questioning his talents a lot and yeah I don't think he'll ever get back 3/4 of where he was. At the moment I'd like to see him get back to half his achievements.
 
In terms of choking in rugby, it'll be interesting to see how Wales go in a pool with both Fiji and Samoa. There has been a lot of talk about the French knocking New Zealand out in 1999 and 2007, but Wales seems not to get the same level of abuse when they have lost to both Samoa and Fiji in the 1999 and 2007 RWC respectively.

Granted those were 2 huge upsets in the game it wasn't quite on the same level as an All Black loss in the QF or SF. The best position Wales has been in the IRB world rankings in the past 6 years is (and i think i'm right in saying) 5th. In the pro era we've had our major upsets and i truly believe that we have choked on a few occassions. I look at the Fiji game in 07. It was spectacular, it was fast and free flowing, but man had we screwed our heads on and played a structured game we would have won it. We didn't. We got caught up in it all and we choked. I genuinely believe we did coz 9 times out of 10 we should beat that team. Should.
The reason the All Blacks caught it heavily is because they have always been such a formidable force throughout all of their history. I can't personally remember a time in my life - i may be wrong - when the All Blacks dropped out of the top 3.
Nevertheless, the Welsh came under HUGE heavy fire at home, like you guys did. Our coach got fired the morning after the loss to Fiji! There wasn't a calm head in the country, let alone at the WRU. We choked on the field and when it came to dealing with the coach with the respect a man deserves we choked off the field.
I feel sorry that the Kiwis get it in the neck every so often, but you guys are like the Man Utd of rugby: When you get so consistently good and difficult to beat you start getting a lot of petty bitter people trying to bring you down. Be proud that people want to bring you down, i say. It's flattering.

Tiger seems to show his old talents in spits and spurts these days. He's not getting any younger, but the guy is far from being old or losing the shape to play, i mean, just look at Angel Cabrera. The guy walks around the course with a lit cigarette in his hand. It makes sense the fitter you are the more energy you'll have over a long 18 hole day and if it comes to it sudden death. But Angel, he is the epitome of what a strong mental state can do for you. He just sucks in his gut, takes his shot and walks on puffing on his cigarette. Brilliant.
And Rory is too young to be labelled as a choker yet. I think someone younger than him as won the US Masters before, but age isn't significant it's experience. He'll learn from what happened to him on his final round a few weeks ago. It's a tough lesson to learn, but it'll make him a better player in the long run.

Choking definitely exists in sport. How do i know, because i've choked on occasion. As a scrum half I trained as a kicker alongside my full back (who was the first choice in our team) every monday and thursday. He had a bigger boot than me, but he wasn't any more accurate than i was. But there was one game we were playing against my hometown and i wanted to beat them so badly. I don't know why, i had nothing against them, but i just didn't want to lose to my hometown. The fullback went off injured at half time and i was the first choice kicker. I took 4 kicks in that second half, 2 conversions and 2 penalties and everytime i stood over that ball instead of talking to myself like i usually do, telling myself if there's any wind, take my time on the approach don't kick it too hard etc. etc. All i kept saying was, "Come on get this over, don't miss this f***ing shot." And i'd miss. The 2nd one i got over, but that was right in front of the posts and that's what i told myself for the 3rd kick. "Don't f**k up again, the only reason you got the last one was coz it's easy". I ended up getting 1 out of the 4 kicks coz i totally choked. I could feel even my kicks were different and that affected my passing game. We won the game by 4 points, but that's only because we had a phenomenal centre who pulled out a hat trick that day. I was ****** off with myself for days after. But that's sport. And i was NOT playing at a high standard, trust me!
I learnt to accept that as a horrific lesson. Yeah we got away with my poor performance, but win, lose or draw i let the side down that day. My coach was great though. The next game he made me the first choice kicker, he told me to go through everything i normally go through in training, he forced me to get back out there and didn't give me time to think about how badly i messed up. I kicked better in the next game and remembered that i really needed more composure as a player.
That's one of the reasons why i think New Zealand will be so much tougher this year. There are plenty of players on that field in 07 that'll be taking to the field in a few months time. They'll take with them what they have learnt. McCaw and McAllister are 2 people that stand out particularly in that game for me. Their game composure and control will be significantly improved in the big games when it comes to it.
Winning it in your back yard? I don't care where you win the world cup. Your 15 men still have to beat their 15 men on the same field with the ONE BALL. I don't ever remember hearing the commentators saying when Francois Pienaar raised the Webb Ellis cup, "They are the world champions, but...it was in their back yard. So it doesn't count as much." Bullshit.
A win's a win wherever you go.
 
Victories over Wales?



I can't see him getting back on form. There is a lot of skill in a sport like golf, but it's a sport that a lot of the game can ride on confidence. Michael Campbell won the US Open in 2005, he's now not even in the top 100 current golfers. I think Tiger's confidence is shattered, his personal life seems to have taken a dive, and his professional life is obviously going to suffer.

In terms of choking in rugby, it'll be interesting to see how Wales go in a pool with both Fiji and Samoa. There has been a lot of talk about the French knocking New Zealand out in 1999 and 2007, but Wales seems not to get the same level of abuse when they have lost to both Samoa and Fiji in the 1999 and 2007 RWC respectively.

I think the term choking doesn't always apply to many cases. I think of choking as missing a kick that you'd usually get 10 times out of 10, and that costs you the game, however losing to a spirited team is just the nature of sport. In a sport like rugby, no matter what hype you go in with, you have eighty minutes to show what you're worth, and a team that may have been useless one week, may perform their hearts out the following.

Don't forget Samoa '91
 
Granted those were 2 huge upsets in the game it wasn't quite on the same level as an All Black loss in the QF or SF. The best position Wales has been in the IRB world rankings in the past 6 years is (and i think i'm right in saying) 5th. In the pro era we've had our major upsets and i truly believe that we have choked on a few occassions. I look at the Fiji game in 07. It was spectacular, it was fast and free flowing, but man had we screwed our heads on and played a structured game we would have won it. We didn't. We got caught up in it all and we choked. I genuinely believe we did coz 9 times out of 10 we should beat that team. Should.
The reason the All Blacks caught it heavily is because they have always been such a formidable force throughout all of their history. I can't personally remember a time in my life - i may be wrong - when the All Blacks dropped out of the top 3.
Nevertheless, the Welsh came under HUGE heavy fire at home, like you guys did. Our coach got fired the morning after the loss to Fiji! There wasn't a calm head in the country, let alone at the WRU. We choked on the field and when it came to dealing with the coach with the respect a man deserves we choked off the field.
I feel sorry that the Kiwis get it in the neck every so often, but you guys are like the Man Utd of rugby: When you get so consistently good and difficult to beat you start getting a lot of petty bitter people trying to bring you down. Be proud that people want to bring you down, i say. It's flattering.

Tiger seems to show his old talents in spits and spurts these days. He's not getting any younger, but the guy is far from being old or losing the shape to play, i mean, just look at Angel Cabrera. The guy walks around the course with a lit cigarette in his hand. It makes sense the fitter you are the more energy you'll have over a long 18 hole day and if it comes to it sudden death. But Angel, he is the epitome of what a strong mental state can do for you. He just sucks in his gut, takes his shot and walks on puffing on his cigarette. Brilliant.
And Rory is too young to be labelled as a choker yet. I think someone younger than him as won the US Masters before, but age isn't significant it's experience. He'll learn from what happened to him on his final round a few weeks ago. It's a tough lesson to learn, but it'll make him a better player in the long run.

Choking definitely exists in sport. How do i know, because i've choked on occasion. As a scrum half I trained as a kicker alongside my full back (who was the first choice in our team) every monday and thursday. He had a bigger boot than me, but he wasn't any more accurate than i was. But there was one game we were playing against my hometown and i wanted to beat them so badly. I don't know why, i had nothing against them, but i just didn't want to lose to my hometown. The fullback went off injured at half time and i was the first choice kicker. I took 4 kicks in that second half, 2 conversions and 2 penalties and everytime i stood over that ball instead of talking to myself like i usually do, telling myself if there's any wind, take my time on the approach don't kick it too hard etc. etc. All i kept saying was, "Come on get this over, don't miss this f***ing shot." And i'd miss. The 2nd one i got over, but that was right in front of the posts and that's what i told myself for the 3rd kick. "Don't f**k up again, the only reason you got the last one was coz it's easy". I ended up getting 1 out of the 4 kicks coz i totally choked. I could feel even my kicks were different and that affected my passing game. We won the game by 4 points, but that's only because we had a phenomenal centre who pulled out a hat trick that day. I was ****** off with myself for days after. But that's sport. And i was NOT playing at a high standard, trust me!
I learnt to accept that as a horrific lesson. Yeah we got away with my poor performance, but win, lose or draw i let the side down that day. My coach was great though. The next game he made me the first choice kicker, he told me to go through everything i normally go through in training, he forced me to get back out there and didn't give me time to think about how badly i messed up. I kicked better in the next game and remembered that i really needed more composure as a player.
That's one of the reasons why i think New Zealand will be so much tougher this year. There are plenty of players on that field in 07 that'll be taking to the field in a few months time. They'll take with them what they have learnt. McCaw and McAllister are 2 people that stand out particularly in that game for me. Their game composure and control will be significantly improved in the big games when it comes to it.
Winning it in your back yard? I don't care where you win the world cup. Your 15 men still have to beat their 15 men on the same field with the ONE BALL. I don't ever remember hearing the commentators saying when Francois Pienaar raised the Webb Ellis cup, "They are the world champions, but...it was in their back yard. So it doesn't count as much." Bullshit.
A win's a win wherever you go.

Totally agree with pretty much all you've said there. The basic emphasis of what the mods have been saying in the thread is not to say that it hasn't happened to the AB's, or that it's not okay to say that they have. The foundation of the entire thread was becoming solely a focus for mockery and things that are that unrelenting, specific and one-track do nothing worthwhile but become a focal point for those who believe wit is found in derision.

Good honest critiques like yours are really what a thread like this is about. Personally I've had rugby choking moments myself. I've tried to do a clearing kick from within my 22 on a wet day and turned it into a kick right into the mid-field and the hands of the advancing opposition who then scored. Another time I made a run of about 35m down the sideline, beat my wing and the fullback, went to adjust the ball in my hands as I felt it was a little awkward and wanted to ground it clearly, no-one to beat and then had the ball slip from my fingers due to a greasy muddy patch on the ball where I moved my hand. I went to re-grab it and did so but was so off-balance in the mud I started slipping and sliding and went into touch 1/2 a metre out with no-one nearby.

Rugby can be a cruel master at times.
 
In terms of choking in rugby, it'll be interesting to see how Wales go in a pool with both Fiji and Samoa. There has been a lot of talk about the French knocking New Zealand out in 1999 and 2007, but Wales seems not to get the same level of abuse when they have lost to both Samoa and Fiji in the 1999 and 2007 RWC respectively.

Ye we lost to Samoa twice and Fiji once ... in the end Wales weren't favorites to win the World Cup in either of those years or in-fact ever, by your reasoning Nick every team chokes when they lose a game which means last night Bolton choked against Fulham in the Premier League when they lost 3-0, were for me choking is losing under pressure in a high stakes game e.g. pre-tournament favorites losing in the Group Stages, QF etc constantly costing them an early exit from something they are clearly favorites for. Not denying we lost but to call Wales chokers is not in the same boat as the SA Cricket team or NZ Rugby team and England in certain respects to football (hyped up through the media more than anything) they were favorites in their respected sports. Not denying Wales lost those games but we were never clear favorites for the World Cup.

Nevertheless, the Welsh came under HUGE heavy fire at home, like you guys did. Our coach got fired the morning after the loss to Fiji! There wasn't a calm head in the country, let alone at the WRU. We choked on the field and when it came to dealing with the coach with the respect a man deserves we choked off the field.

Hardly sacking Gareth Jenkins was a choke. The man made a meal of coaching Wales, arguably the worst rugby I can remember watching in my lifetime of watching Wales. Jenkins had dug his own grave with what had gone on, granted the players played poorly but under him Jenkins had it wrong. His coaching staff, players etc were all wrong. Saying that the WRU could have waited at least a week instead of the morning after to sack him. WRU made the first mistake when they let Ruddock go and Jenkins sacking was a snowball affect from Ruddockgate. Again goes back to my point on how I define choking, which is reasonable if you ask me. I can guarantee you RC you were also looking for Jenkins head when we exited the WC, I'm not going to deny that I wanted Jenkins sacked, I never wanted him to coach Wales, he was a good regional / club level coach but was not good enough to cope with top level coaching.
 
Granted those were 2 huge upsets in the game it wasn't quite on the same level as an All Black loss in the QF or SF. The best position Wales has been in the IRB world rankings in the past 6 years is (and i think i'm right in saying) 5th. In the pro era we've had our major upsets and i truly believe that we have choked on a few occassions. I look at the Fiji game in 07. It was spectacular, it was fast and free flowing, but man had we screwed our heads on and played a structured game we would have won it. We didn't. We got caught up in it all and we choked. I genuinely believe we did coz 9 times out of 10 we should beat that team. Should.
The reason the All Blacks caught it heavily is because they have always been such a formidable force throughout all of their history. I can't personally remember a time in my life - i may be wrong - when the All Blacks dropped out of the top 3.
Nevertheless, the Welsh came under HUGE heavy fire at home, like you guys did. Our coach got fired the morning after the loss to Fiji! There wasn't a calm head in the country, let alone at the WRU. We choked on the field and when it came to dealing with the coach with the respect a man deserves we choked off the field.
I feel sorry that the Kiwis get it in the neck every so often, but you guys are like the Man Utd of rugby: When you get so consistently good and difficult to beat you start getting a lot of petty bitter people trying to bring you down. Be proud that people want to bring you down, i say. It's flattering.

Tiger seems to show his old talents in spits and spurts these days. He's not getting any younger, but the guy is far from being old or losing the shape to play, i mean, just look at Angel Cabrera. The guy walks around the course with a lit cigarette in his hand. It makes sense the fitter you are the more energy you'll have over a long 18 hole day and if it comes to it sudden death. But Angel, he is the epitome of what a strong mental state can do for you. He just sucks in his gut, takes his shot and walks on puffing on his cigarette. Brilliant.
And Rory is too young to be labelled as a choker yet. I think someone younger than him as won the US Masters before, but age isn't significant it's experience. He'll learn from what happened to him on his final round a few weeks ago. It's a tough lesson to learn, but it'll make him a better player in the long run.

Choking definitely exists in sport. How do i know, because i've choked on occasion. As a scrum half I trained as a kicker alongside my full back (who was the first choice in our team) every monday and thursday. He had a bigger boot than me, but he wasn't any more accurate than i was. But there was one game we were playing against my hometown and i wanted to beat them so badly. I don't know why, i had nothing against them, but i just didn't want to lose to my hometown. The fullback went off injured at half time and i was the first choice kicker. I took 4 kicks in that second half, 2 conversions and 2 penalties and everytime i stood over that ball instead of talking to myself like i usually do, telling myself if there's any wind, take my time on the approach don't kick it too hard etc. etc. All i kept saying was, "Come on get this over, don't miss this f***ing shot." And i'd miss. The 2nd one i got over, but that was right in front of the posts and that's what i told myself for the 3rd kick. "Don't f**k up again, the only reason you got the last one was coz it's easy". I ended up getting 1 out of the 4 kicks coz i totally choked. I could feel even my kicks were different and that affected my passing game. We won the game by 4 points, but that's only because we had a phenomenal centre who pulled out a hat trick that day. I was ****** off with myself for days after. But that's sport. And i was NOT playing at a high standard, trust me!
I learnt to accept that as a horrific lesson. Yeah we got away with my poor performance, but win, lose or draw i let the side down that day. My coach was great though. The next game he made me the first choice kicker, he told me to go through everything i normally go through in training, he forced me to get back out there and didn't give me time to think about how badly i messed up. I kicked better in the next game and remembered that i really needed more composure as a player.
That's one of the reasons why i think New Zealand will be so much tougher this year. There are plenty of players on that field in 07 that'll be taking to the field in a few months time. They'll take with them what they have learnt. McCaw and McAllister are 2 people that stand out particularly in that game for me. Their game composure and control will be significantly improved in the big games when it comes to it.
Winning it in your back yard? I don't care where you win the world cup. Your 15 men still have to beat their 15 men on the same field with the ONE BALL. I don't ever remember hearing the commentators saying when Francois Pienaar raised the Webb Ellis cup, "They are the world champions, but...it was in their back yard. So it doesn't count as much." Bullshit.
A win's a win wherever you go.

Great post, sums it up pretty well.

Ye we lost to Samoa twice and Fiji once ... in the end Wales weren't favorites to win the World Cup in either of those years or in-fact ever, by your reasoning Nick every team chokes when they lose a game which means last night Bolton choked against Fulham in the Premier League when they lost 3-0, were for me choking is losing under pressure in a high stakes game e.g. pre-tournament favorites losing in the Group Stages, QF etc constantly costing them an early exit from something they are clearly favorites for. Not denying we lost but to call Wales chokers is not in the same boat as the SA Cricket team or NZ Rugby team and England in certain respects to football (hyped up through the media more than anything) they were favorites in their respected sports. Not denying Wales lost those games but we were never clear favorites for the World Cup.



Hardly sacking Gareth Jenkins was a choke. The man made a meal of coaching Wales, arguably the worst rugby I can remember watching in my lifetime of watching Wales. Jenkins had dug his own grave with what had gone on, granted the players played poorly but under him Jenkins had it wrong. His coaching staff, players etc were all wrong. Saying that the WRU could have waited at least a week instead of the morning after to sack him. WRU made the first mistake when they let Ruddock go and Jenkins sacking was a snowball affect from Ruddockgate. Again goes back to my point on how I define choking, which is reasonable if you ask me. I can guarantee you RC you were also looking for Jenkins head when we exited the WC, I'm not going to deny that I wanted Jenkins sacked, I never wanted him to coach Wales, he was a good regional / club level coach but was not good enough to cope with top level coaching.

They were however expected to make it out of group stages. Does it seem more likely New Zealand winning a RWC, than Wales making it out of group stages? Regardless, it wasn't me having a go, just pointing out that the nature of the thread seemed a lot more focused on just New Zealand's "choking" and not on any other rugby nations.
 
Jenkins deserved to be sacked. You should never have a modern day Turk in charge of Wales ;) ;)
The only positive that came out of that world cup was his sacking and Shane Williams' try vs Fiji (tried to find a video on youtube but only found compilations)
I guess you could say that Wales choked the seasons following both grand-slams in 2005/2008???.

In a serious way of explaining "choking" its literally not living up to expectation. So i guess if you a passionate/deluded Welsh fan, wales choke in every game they play :p
 
They were however expected to make it out of group stages. Does it seem more likely New Zealand winning a RWC, than Wales making it out of group stages? Regardless, it wasn't me having a go, just pointing out that the nature of the thread seemed a lot more focused on just New Zealand's "choking" and not on any other rugby nations.

But you got to define choking, and throwing it about willy nilly as a term for pretty much anything is not what choking is all about. You got to be at the top and favorite to win to choke, John Terry's penalty miss, McIlroy in the Masters after leading to fall like he did in the last day, Gareth Southgate Euro 1996 and of course the South African Cricket Teams of the past. All of these were at the top of their games and when it came to the crunch they lost.
 
In a serious way of explaining "choking" its literally not living up to expectation. So i guess if you a passionate/deluded Welsh fan, wales choke in every game they play :p

Cracking under pressure (or bottling it) is a better explanation - The examples listed above are perfect. Stephen Myler not calling for the DG in last years Premiership Semi-final is another. Arsenal falling behind in the ***le race at the end of the season, Shalke being thumped at home by Man United on Tuesday despite scoring a billion at the San Sero, England not turning up at Lansdowne road for the Slam-Decider - I'd call all of them choking.

Not quite the same as "not living up to expectation" IMO. That just implies the team aren't as good compared to media hype - e.g. England football in any Tournament.
 
hahaha yer true. Only just eaten my breakfast, Sushi for thinking. I know realise my mistake :D :D
 

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