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The Welsh Regions Joining the Premiership?

Also, the Top 14 or Premiership don't necessarily have to be thrown away. In a similar way to how the triple crown is contained within the Six Nations, so could the Top 14 be contained within its conference if the French so wished. Both England and France could still maintain relegation of their weakest side and the promotion of a championship/D2 side.

Anyway, based on what's happened over the last two years I'm of the feeling that if you can convince the French and English clubs that there's money in it then they'll be quick enough to throw away pretty much any tradition.
 
Promition/relegation only works if it applies to all the clubs. End of.

As far as I can work out, and this certainly is pure rumour...

The only reason the PRL want an Anglo-Welsh tournament is so that they can claw back some of the money they failed to get from the RCC.
Assuming the leak of the deal between BT and PRL was correct - that the vast majority of the £160m PRL were to recieve has been lost due to no RCC.
BT only want to take the Rugby away from Sky - so if they can get this proposed Euro coverage then the PRL no longer have any need for the Welsh Regions.
The Anglo-Welsh cup would only exist in order for PRL to have something to offer instead of a Sky broadcast Euro comp.

You're also forgetting that PRL is the premiership - it's not a "Union" for the clubs - the PRL is the product.
Without the premiership the PRL serves no purpose.
If the new Eurocup was run by the 6 nations then we could end up with the RFU distributing the tv rights.
If that's the case then the PRL are in a very weak position and would likely attempt to create yet another product as a reason for their continued existence.
Leaving us back at square one.
 
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Promition/relegation only works if it applies to all the clubs. End of.

As far as I can work out, and this certainly is pure rumour...

The only reason the PRL want an Anglo-Welsh tournament is so that they can claw back some of the money they failed to get from the RCC.
Assuming the leak of the deal between BT and PRL was correct - that the vast majority of the £160m PRL were to recieve has been lost due to no RCC.
BT only want to take the Rugby away from Sky - so if they can get this proposed Euro coverage then the PRL no longer have any need for the Welsh Regions.
The Anglo-Welsh cup would only exist in order for PRL to have something to offer instead of a Sky broadcast Euro comp.

You're also forgetting that PRL is the premiership - it's not a "Union" for the clubs - the PRL is the product.
Without the premiership the PRL serves no purpose.
If the new Eurocup was run by the 6 nations then we could end up with the RFU distributing the tv rights.
If that's the case then the PRL are in a very weak position and would likely attempt to create yet another product as a reason for their continued existence.
Leaving us back at square one.

Maybe promotion/relegation of some teams is unworkable, however it's a system that the PRL have proposed themselves if the Anglo/Welsh league takes place, with only one Welsh region susceptible to relegation. This shows that the PRL are willing to negotiate on the matter. Ultimately, if England believe that promotion/relegation strengthens their club system, increasing the competitiveness of the Championship, and the top clubs, then that's up to them. I can see that many would think it unfair though, especially if a team like Worcester were relegated despite finishing above the Dragons or Edinburgh.

I don't agree with you re PRL. They are an organisation which represent the clubs. RRW do the same despite being part of a larger league. PRL could still serve as an umbrella organisation which represent te English clubs interests. They could, along with RRW/WRU and the SRU negotiate the distribution of TV rights in Britain.
 
Promition/relegation only works if it applies to all the clubs. End of.
It happens in Super Rugby.

You're right, PRL only want an Anglo-Welsh League because of the European problem which all sides are to blame for creating. The knock on effect of an Anglo-Welsh League is a weakened Pro 12 which will damage rugby in half the 6 Nations. That's unpalatable to me.

I'm not forgetting PRL is a separate entity to the RFU. What I'm exploring is the potential for PRL and the RFU to co-exist. Since I'm not involved in negotiations, I don't know how that would properly work! I suspect PRL would increase and encompass both RRW and the Scottish regions but that would be up to them to negotiate an acceptable solution. PRL could still serve a purpose representing the British conference views and negotiating the commercial deals for their part of the league.

What I believe rugby has to get away from is following the model of football. As a collision sport it can't continue with an enormous playing schedule and expect to deliver a top quality product every week. Create something unique within a European context. The KHL is pioneering something similar at the moment with the expansion of Ice Hockey throughout Europe.
 
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The Anglo-Welsh proposal shows that the PRL are desperate to claw back as much of the money from the BT contract as possible, regardless of the end product.

It only happens in SA where teams promoted/demoted to/from the same league run by a single union, so it's fine.
The situation that is being proposed whereby an English team that finishes 9th would still be demoted instead of a Welsh team, is ludicrous.
Especially as we have an issue with the geographical spread of the current 12 teams.

You wont find me arguing about the need for a re-structuring of the calendar with less games in it.
 
It only happens in SA where teams promoted/demoted to/from the same league run by a single union, so it's fine.
The situation that is being proposed whereby an English team that finishes 9th would still be demoted instead of a Welsh team, is ludicrous.
To be honest, I'm not in favour of relegation. I'd be happier to see English representation expand to 14 teams and these teams to be given a guaranteed involvement for 5+ years to help stability.

Relegation in Super Rugby is at the discretion of the Unions. I'd argue that there are a couple of Australian teams weaker than the relegated SA team so as such, there's no major difference between this and relegating an English or a French club. The Super Rugby conferences are fluid anyway with all teams playing each other. Their system guarantees one team from each conference making the playoffs (unless I'm very much mistaken) regardless of the strength of each conference.

As Dullonien has said, PRL have already seemingly offered the Welsh regions a similar deal.

Just wondering ratsapprentice, how would you restructure things in a way that doesn't harm any of the 6 Nations teams? It's always good to get other opinions. Your European Super Rugby type model is the ideal but would be next to impossible to implement given the stakes involved for private owners of French and English clubs. They'll quite understandably want to be top dogs and not subservient to amalgamated superteams.
 
I'm undecided on the benefits of relegation, but if the league was ring-fenced now I'd be ****** off because it would leave Cornwall and Yorkshire without teams.
And they are very important to the English game.

My undisputed preference would be for a SR format.
In England the basic structure would be:

12+ team Premiership either ring-fenced or with regional relegation

\/ \/ \/

6 Regions/Franchises for a pan European league

\/ \/ \/

International Rugby

With the RFU having ultimate control of all three tiers. Essentially the NZ system!
Having so many disparate governing bodies has hampered our rugby in my opinion.Concentrating our best players into 6 regions will not only increase the likelihood of English success in Europe, but will also naturally increase the quality of the England team. This would obviously require the RFU to grow a pair and take control of the clubs.

Europe-wise - I think the HEC is fairly good tbh.
The major gripe is the length of it - congesting the calendar unnecessarily - and qualification.
A 20 team European cup with 6 teams from the TOP14, the 6 English Regions/Franchises and 6 from the PRO12.
With the final two spots handed to the two top placed teams in the previous year's 2nd tier European league (by league position - not finalists).
There would be no guaranteed places for either Scottish or Italian teams.
 
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I'm undecided on the benefits of relegation, but if the league was ring-fenced now I'd be ****** off because it would leave Cornwall and Yorkshire without teams.
And they are very important to the English game.

My undisputed preference would be for a SR format.
In England the basic structure would be:

12+ team Premiership either ring-fenced or with regional relegation

\/ \/ \/

6 Regions/Franchises for a pan European league

\/ \/ \/

International Rugby

With the RFU having ultimate control of all three tiers. Essentially the NZ system!
Having so many disparate governing bodies has hampered our rugby in my opinion.Concentrating our best players into 6 regions will not only increase the likelihood of English success in Europe, but will also naturally increase the quality of the England team. This would obviously require the RFU to grow a pair and take control of the clubs.

Europe-wise - I think the HEC is fairly good tbh.
The major gripe is the length of it - congesting the calendar unnecessarily - and qualification.
A 20 team European cup with 6 teams from the TOP14, the 6 English Regions/Franchises and 6 from the PRO12.
With the final two spots handed to the two top placed teams in the previous year's 2nd tier European league (by league position - not finalists).
There would be no guaranteed places for either Scottish or Italian teams.

And how would you propose they did that? honest question rats not trying to fall out with you. Lots of people saying this but I dont know how they would do it.
 
Revoke the permissions they have given to the PRL, and systematically buy the clubs.
It would be difficult due to the resources required but I think they could if they wanted to and it would take a year or two.
 
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I don't think they even have to go that far. If they started centrally contracting the best players that would be a huge source of leverage. Right now, he who controls the players, controls the game.

I wonder if that will ever occur to the players.
 
I'd agree.

As far as I can see they have the ability to do it, and they wouldn't be able to do it in one fell swoop.
So they may as well go the "every penny counts" way....
 
WRU statement:
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/29209.php#.UsMcLrT1iUW

Key bits:
Furthermore the WRU reaffirms its commitment to the International Rugby Board's regulations which provide that cross-border competitions and tournaments may only take place with the full approval of the relevant unions.......

......The decision of the existing Regional Organisations not to continue with the PA has now freed the WRU to present a new Participation Agreement focused on recognising and rewarding Regions which identify, develop and retain players capable of challenging for international honours with Wales. This is in the best interests of Welsh Rugby.
Which translates as "the Scarlets, Ospreys, Blues and Dragons can f*** off and join a rebel, unsanctioned competition, we're setting up new teams".

If the RRW teams join the Premiership, it won't be sanctioned by the WRU. If they don't legitimize it, it puts the RFU in a very tough position. Do they side with PRL to foster harmony at home ahead of 2015 or do they stare down their own clubs at the behest of the WRU and, by extension, the IRB?
 
Also... either they are making a massive assumption that the RFU are going to be cool with this, or they are about to have their **** handed to them.
 
Also... either they are making a massive assumption that the RFU are going to be cool with this, or they are about to have their **** handed to them.
That's the crux of it. The RFU have now found themselves slap, bang in the middle of the war between RRW and the WRU. I bet they're hoping for a resolution before they're forced to take a side. Inaction by the RFU is tantamount to backing an Anglo-Welsh League against the wishes of the WRU and to the detriment of the IRFU, SRU and FIR. Should the RFU act, PRL will view it as an act of war. The RFU are now in a no win situation.
 
I don't think they even have to go that far. If they started centrally contracting the best players that would be a huge source of leverage. Right now, he who controls the players, controls the game.

I wonder if that will ever occur to the players.

Of course it occurs to the players they are just more loyal to the clubs they play for than the RFU. Also to centrally contract the players the clubs would still have to agree to sub contract them outside internationals. Sorry its just not practical in the English game at least.
 
WRU statement:
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/29209.php#.UsMcLrT1iUW

Key bits:

Which translates as "the Scarlets, Ospreys, Blues and Dragons can f*** off and join a rebel, unsanctioned competition, we're setting up new teams".

If the RRW teams join the Premiership, it won't be sanctioned by the WRU. If they don't legitimize it, it puts the RFU in a very tough position. Do they side with PRL to foster harmony at home ahead of 2015 or do they stare down their own clubs at the behest of the WRU and, by extension, the IRB?

The new WRU teams they are proposing will be a laughing stock. Roger Lewis has lost the plot.
 
Really looking forward to Pontypridd v Edinburgh and North Wales v Zebre!
 
The new WRU teams they are proposing will be a laughing stock. Roger Lewis has lost the plot.
Initially they will be a joke if we get an all out war. Lewis'/The WRU's trump card is how Wales international players are selected. I suspect the WRU will decide that if you play for one of the rebel regions (for want of a better term), you can't represent Wales. Who'd want to sign for/stick with Dragons, Blues, Ospreys or Scarlets if that was the case? PRL wouldn't be long about discarding RRW teams from the Anglo-Welsh League then.
 

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