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The Welsh Regions Joining the Premiership?

To think the Welsh regions should just put up and shut up is very arrogant and very condescending
That's not what I'm railing against. The WRU are definitely culpable in some of what's going on. What I'd like to see acknowledged is that the regions have to take a lot of blame for this situation too. They haven't capitalised on Wales' 6 Nations success at all in terms of getting people through the gate and growing the fan base. It seems to me that the regions are whinging and blaming all around them when they should also be concerned with how they've been run up to now.
 
Rose-tinted glasses.


[I think a lot of people do genuinely believe they will get more fans in with an Anglo-Welsh league - but given the stats of the HEC for one-off games which should attract more in as opposed to the familiarity fatigue of a league program - it really does appear to be wishful thinking.]

Compared to the Rabo attendances they will be better. Less inconvenient kickoff times, not all games televised, better opposition in the league. The regions won't make a loss travelling to Scotland or Italy either.

I'm not sure where you've got your stats about the HEC as well. All the 3 regions in the HEC have had their best attendances this season in the tournament. Cardiff vs Toulon, Ospreys vs Leinster and Scarlets vs Racing (until the derbies). I haven't averaged it out, but I'm very confident in saying if you went back over the past dozen seasons the HEC would be better attended as you would expect of course.

I don't see what opinion you are referring to is seen through rose-tinted glasses by the way.
 
Think some people here are clueless about the problems facing Welsh domestic rugby at the minute, they seem to think that if they model themselves on the Irish or NZ domestic game all things will be happy but what they forget is currently the 4 welsh regions are competing against 2 Premiership football teams (something fans in NZ and Ireland would know nothing about)

Oh really?. You don't think the Irish have problems competing with the two GAA sports, Gaelic Football and Hurling? Aussie Rugby have THREE codes of football they are up against, and two of them, Rugby League and AFL, are clearly kicking Union's butt for popularity, participation, sponsorship and television coverage. South Africa have Football as a very big competitor although the racial divide lessens that to a certain extent.

Admittedly, we only have Rugby League in NZ as a serious competitor in field-ball sports at the adult level. However, at junior level, its a different story. There are nearly three times as many Junior Soccer players in NZ as there are as there are Junior Rugby Union players. Heaven help rugby here if Football NZ ever figure out a way to translate their Junior participation rates onto the Senior game.

However, only a fool would think that other ball sports are our only competitors. Rugby in NZ competes with a huge number of other sports, pastimes and entertainments. When I was still as school back in the 1960s and 70s, you pretty much had only two or three choices of sport in each season; Rugby Union, Soccer and Hockey in the winter, Cricket and Softball in the Summer (and girls had Netball as well). Schools simply did not cater for any other sports at any competitive level. Now they also cater for Rugby League, Basketball, Skiing, Snowboarding, Tennis, Equestrian, Cycling, Squash, Mountain Biking, Water Polo, Swimming, Volleyball, Rowing, Kayaking (Flat and Wild water), Golf, Badminton, Wrestling, Weightlifting, Track & Field and a host of other lesser sports. The followings of some of these sports might not be all that great, but the more choice people have as far as what they participate in, the fewer the numbers participating in each.

To think the Welsh regions should just put up and shut up is very arrogant and very condescending, why the hell shouldnt they try and join the EPL if they think it will help them, if the WRU wants to try and block them then perhaps they should remember what happened in Football when the WFA tried to stop welsh teams joining the then English league.

I hear and read a lot of rhetoric on this and other forums, about how the Welsh fans and Clubs were hard done by when regionalisation came in, and that the vast majority of them objected, but the facts tell a different story. Regionalisation was overwhelmingly supported by the 240 or so Welsh Clubs that existed at that time. Only seven opposed the move; and who are the Club stakeholders if not the fans. If the they really were opposed, why didn't they instruct their clubs accordingly?
 
Oh really?. You don't think the Irish have problems competing with the two GAA sports, Gaelic Football and Hurling? Aussie Rugby have THREE codes of football they are up against, and two of them, Rugby League and AFL, are clearly kicking Union's butt for popularity, participation, sponsorship and television coverage. South Africa have Football as a very big competitor although the racial divide lessens that to a certain extent.

They run at different times of the year I think.
 
They run at different times of the year I think.

What? Are you saying that Hurling and Gaelic Football only run for 11 weeks? I thought the All Ireland's in both Hurling and Football ran virutally side-by-side from May to September. That puts the begining rignt at the peaks of the rugby season, and the end right at the beginning of the following season.
 
What? Are you saying that Hurling and Gaelic Football only run for 11 weeks? I thought the All Ireland's in both Hurling and Football ran virutally side-by-side from May to September. That puts the begining rignt at the peaks of the rugby season, and the end right at the beginning of the following season.

It's impossible for them not to collide at all. But they have different enough calendars so the Irish can follow both sports well. Not as easy with football which runs in an identical season.

That's not what I'm railing against. The WRU are definitely culpable in some of what's going on. What I'd like to see acknowledged is that the regions have to take a lot of blame for this situation too. They haven't capitalised on Wales' 6 Nations success at all in terms of getting people through the gate and growing the fan base. It seems to me that the regions are whinging and blaming all around them when they should also be concerned with how they've been run up to now.

We're going round in circles. The RRW have now stood up to the WRU and are determined to follow their own path now having refused the renewal of the PA. The WRU are trying to run them down and have the Western Mail and BBC press as their allies so the regions needed to step up the effort in making their voice heard via protests and statements. And it's working.

It's also hard to grow a fan base whilst you're losing all the top players. And by the way there was a review into how the regions were run by the PWC and they found that the current model of Welsh rugby is "unsustainable" and overreliant on benefactors. It also however said that the WRU don't have the money to takeover and control them without the private investment. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20218179
 
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But it's ok short term for regions but will they still get the support financially elsewhere if not from unions in 3-4 years time. Also if the WRU start new "regions" will younger players go to the outcasts in English league or stay with WRU regions trying to boost their international hopes. And in turn will WRU be stubborn and only select players from break always in last resort
 
For anybody wandering. A good person to talk to about the Welsh situation is the Welsh rugby blogger PhilBB. He is very knowledgeable on it all especially with the details of facts and figures. He also responds to nearly every tweet on Twitter, if you want to ask something he'd be a good one to ask.

https://twitter.com/rugbyPhilBB
 
What? Are you saying that Hurling and Gaelic Football only run for 11 weeks? I thought the All Ireland's in both Hurling and Football ran virutally side-by-side from May to September. That puts the begining rignt at the peaks of the rugby season, and the end right at the beginning of the following season.

Correct, the championship (main competition) runs from May till September, however the Gaelic football & hurling leagues start at the end of January and run till April. A lot of Gaelic football & hurling fans (myself included) follow the rugby to. To illustrate, there are 2,000 Gaelic Athletic Aassociation (GAA the governing body of hurling & gaelic football) clubs in ireland, compared to roughly 220 or so rugby clubs.

The knockout nature of the GAA championship means that a lot of counties' seasons are done & dusted by July. Also the league is very much a secondary competition.
 
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Correct, the championship (main competition) runs from May till September, however the Gaelic football & hurling leagues start at the end of January and run till April. A lot of Gaelic football & hurling fans (myself included) follow the rugby to. To illustrate, there are 2,000 Gaelic Athletic Aassociation (GAA the governing body of hurling & gaelic football) clubs in ireland, compared to roughly 220 or so rugby clubs.

The knockout nature of the GAA championship means that a lot of counties' seasons are done & dusted by July. Also the league is very much a secondary competition.

In fairness though attendances are low for leagues and GAA preseason games. So as you say GAA season for fans really is just the 12 weeks or so at max
 
In fairness though attendances are low for leagues and GAA preseason games. So as you say GAA season for fans really is just the 12 weeks or so at max

They are indeed, although juicey league matches will pull in a decent enough crowd.
 
True but again a lot of GAA league fans are couch fans of rugby or don't have any interest at all.

What did the Dublin footballers pull in during the spring series? 25,000-30,000 on average for league games? Not bad considering the league is constantly run down as being "only the league". You have to remember that Considering the populations of some counties, 4-5,000 is a hell of a crowd. Think there's quite a bit of fan crossover to be honest, although it's an expensive business following 3 different codes! :D
 
What did the Dublin footballers pull in during the spring series? 25,000-30,000 on average for league games? Not bad considering the league is constantly run down as being "only the league". You have to remember that Considering the populations of some counties, 4-5,000 is a hell of a crowd. Think there's quite a bit of fan crossover to be honest, although it's an expensive business following 3 different codes! :D

Yes but lots of them were promotional gigs in Croker. Special acts for half time, special family packs and combo tickets. But come Sept I remember in recent years 4 games delayed/fans arriving late in to Hill 16 due to a soccer match been on in August. No problem either as Dubs like sports but effectively been honest there really is no crossover
 
Not sure i follow your point, there was marketing done for sure with some half time entertainment, but they still pulled in an average gate of 20,000-30,000 throughout the league, not a small crowd for a second tier competition by any means, albeit dwarfed by the championship crowds.

Anyways, I was just illustrating to the lads here that rugby has grown its fanbase here but to say there's no competition is not accurate, although the GAA wouldn't have a seemingly never-ending season like the premiership.
 
I hear and read a lot of rhetoric on this and other forums, about how the Welsh fans and Clubs were hard done by when regionalisation came in, and that the vast majority of them objected, but the facts tell a different story. Regionalisation was overwhelmingly supported by the 240 or so Welsh Clubs that existed at that time. Only seven opposed the move; and who are the Club stakeholders if not the fans. If the they really were opposed, why didn't they instruct their clubs accordingly?

Not saying it wasnt supported at the start but it has not worked out for them and they have come to the end of the current agreement so why should they not try pastures new?
 
The fact that the IRFU very much uses the rabo as an arena to rest international players doesn't help the competition. The recent derby matches over the festive period were damp squibs due to so few front line players playing. I know why they do it, but I think it takes from the league as a a whole.
 
People say about IRFU force guys to be rested but what English and French leagues don't understand is the teams remain competitive and most of time can grind out a result. It's called squad rotation and probably why we produce more homegrown talent. Obviously 1 factor is there only 4 teams but our youngsters get a lot more exposure
 
People say about IRFU force guys to be rested but what English and French leagues don't understand is the teams remain competitive and most of time can grind out a result. It's called squad rotation and probably why we produce more homegrown talent. Obviously 1 factor is there only 4 teams but our youngsters get a lot more exposure

More home grown talent than who? Wales? England?
 
People say about IRFU force guys to be rested but what English and French leagues don't understand is the teams remain competitive and most of time can grind out a result. It's called squad rotation and probably why we produce more homegrown talent. Obviously 1 factor is there only 4 teams but our youngsters get a lot more exposure

Yea but the flip side is that the perception remains that the IRFU don't really care about winning the rabo, something that can't be said for the premiership or top14. Sure its great for younger players to get a run, but at what cost? It's not catching the fans imagination, except for the occasional full strength derby match. Rabo are ending their sponsorship this season. Tv deals are tiny. As a competition it struggles to get the gander up. A training paddock is all well & good but in the long term the rabo needs to be taken seriously so that we have important matches week in week out.
 

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