The Welsh Regions Joining the Premiership?

[Maverick1987]

Leinster team vs Treviso on 24/11/2013

Bent
Dundon
Moore
Denton
Roux
Ruddock
Ryan
Auva'a
Cooney
Gopperth
Fanning
Reid
Mackey
Tuquiri
Ruddock

I hardly recognise any of these names and this is exactly what I've been trying to point out for 4 hours !!

 

[munstermuffin]

Just a quick question. People go on about Irish provinces only playing so many games etc.
But can I twist it - If you have 30-35 players that are good enough for it then why shouldn't they rotate. For example I'd say Leinster could be slated if they are mediocre but people miss the point they still were winning and doing a job. So like if it was Sexton or Madigan at 10 etc, what is the problem as they were still doing the required job

 

[psychic duck]

French international Remi Tales only started 12 times in the Top 14 last season for the champions Castres at flyhalf. I'm guessing you think Castres were showing contempt towards their domestic league too.

12 starts in the league is 4 more than the average amount of an Irish international and at least get your facts right, Tales started 23 Top 14 games last season.

 

[munstermuffin]

Leinster team vs Treviso on 24/11/2013

Bent
Dundon
Moore
Denton
Roux
Ruddock
Ryan
Auva'a
Cooney
Gopperth
Fanning
Reid
Mackey
Tuquiri
Ruddock

I hardly recognise any of these names and this is exactly what I've been trying to point out for 4 hours !!

Bit unfair as that was same weekend as Ireland vs New Zealand when Leinster had what 17 players or so in squad yet still put out team with 10 or so HEC experienced players. How's that a valid point there

 

[Maverick1987]

Bit unfair as that was same weekend as Ireland vs New Zealand when Leinster had what 17 players or so in squad yet still put out team with 10 or so HEC experienced players. How's that a valid point there

Fair enough didn't realise that's the same weekend as NZ game just picked up the first Leinster game on the ultimate rugby app

 

[munstermuffin]

Fair enough didn't realise that's the same weekend as NZ game just picked up the first Leinster game on the ultimate rugby app

And as I said on that team they still had internationals and HEC players add in to that so many on national duty and injuries too. Not many could cope with that

 

[munstermuffin]

12 starts in the league is 4 more than the average amount of an Irish international and at least get your facts right, Tales started 23 Top 14 games last season.

Peter O'Mahony played 16 times in Rabo last season. He was international too so was unavailable for some games. Point is some players have injuries and a lot of Irish guys are getting old so are managed smartly too

 

[psychic duck]

Peter O'Mahony played 16 times in Rabo last season. He was international too so was unavailable for some games. Point is some players have injuries and a lot of Irish guys are getting old so are managed smartly too

He actually only played 5 times last season (http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/teams/munster/squad.php?player=81946&includeref=dynamic) ...

Instead of getting you're facts wrong, why can't you just admit the truth? The Irish internationals as a group on average are selected less in the Rabo than the English or French internationals are in their leagues.

 

[McTallshort]

As this is now a thread about Irish regional rugby what I will add is...

The ability teams like Leinster have for rotating players has led to players like BOD being able to play at the highest level for perhaps more seasons than would have been possible had he played in the French Top 14, which is a big positive IMO and there is no doubting the success of the Irish model under the current agreements/strutures etc but what the latest merry go round of European in fighting has shown is that Irish rugby is currently in a very precarious position. Lose the HC (almost certain) and it will lose its big crowd puller and arguably the most productive competition Irish sport has ever had. Lose the Pro 12 (very possible) and gone is its bread and butter league and its training pool for young talent. Could Irish rugby have a stand alone Pro league?

When the agreements have all be signed and the dust has settled I think the biggest loser will be the Irish regional model and I suppose thats why there seems to be some anger directed at the Welsh on this thread

 

[Maverick1987]

Peter O'Mahony played 16 times in Rabo last season. He was international too so was unavailable for some games. Point is some players have injuries and a lot of Irish guys are getting old so are managed smartly too

I think it's excuses but I also think we will have to agree to disagree otherwise we will just go round in circles forever lol

 

[Maverick1987]

He actually only played 5 times last season (http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/teams/munster/squad.php?player=81946&includeref=dynamic) ...

Instead of getting you're facts wrong, why can't you just admit the truth? The Irish internationals as a group on average are selected less in the Rabo than the English or French internationals are in their leagues.

Lol your burning everyone tonight duck !!!

 

[Feicarsinn]

Leinster team vs Treviso on 24/11/2013

Bent
Dundon
Moore
Denton
Roux
Ruddock
Ryan
Auva'a

Cooney
Gopperth
Fanning
Reid
Mackey
Tuquiri
Ruddock

I hardly recognise any of these names and this is exactly what I've been trying to point out for 4 hours !!

Maybe that's because you spelt most of them incorrectly?

As munstermuffin said, we had 17 players with the international side that weekend, as well as Zane Kirchner. Leo Cullen, Richardt Strauss, Jordi Murphy and Shane Jennings were all out with injury. Despite that we still put out s number of Ireland and Ireland 'A' internationals. And we won the game.

 

[Maverick1987]

Maybe that's because you spelt most of them incorrectly?

As munstermuffin said, we had 17 players with the international side that weekend, as well as Zane Kirchner. Leo Cullen, Richardt Strauss, Jordi Murphy and Shane Jennings were all out with injury. Despite that we still put out s number of Ireland and Ireland 'A' internationals. And we won the game.

Which ones did I spell incorrectly ?

I see macken instead of Mackey but tbh that was an auto correct on my phone and maybe tuquiri ? (It's not a common name) It's hardly MOST of them though is it ?

The conversation has obviously ran its course when it's gone from me stating facts about appearances to others stating false facts about appearances and commenting on grammar lol

Maybe it's your exaggeration that started all this in the first place ?

 

[big ginger 8]

I don't want to get into this argument but I can guarantee no matter how many players we were missing Ruddock was not double jobbing as a 15, I'm pretty sure it was Springbok Kirchener.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Just skimmed through the thread quickly there - what is it you're actually complaining about in the squad rotation? The only reason Leinster have such good strength in depth is because they rotate the squad - if they're good enough to send out a second string XV against another team AND get 4 or 5 points, why not?

 

[munstermuffin]

He actually only played 5 times last season (http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/teams/munster/squad.php?player=81946&includeref=dynamic) ...

Instead of getting you're facts wrong, why can't you just admit the truth? The Irish internationals as a group on average are selected less in the Rabo than the English or French internationals are in their leagues.

Misread on Stats and yes they're managed better but still win and are at business end of season so why should they flog players which I will reverse and ask - What does that say about Welsh teams if they are playing against "reserve" teams and still can't do anything yet they're going to produce in arguably a harder league.

 

[McTallshort]

Misread on Stats and yes they're managed better but still win and are at business end of season so why should they flog players which I will reverse and ask - What does that say about Welsh teams if they are playing against "reserve" teams and still can't do anything yet they're going to produce in arguably a harder league.

Burned back!

 

[munstermuffin]

There's a reason why Irish provinces do stay competitive and it's because they use their squad smartly and other side is it's how you discover talent.
In recent years "reserve players" since April 2011 in Munster are Murray, Zebo, Kilcoyne, Sherry, Cronin, O'Donnell and Archer. Yet all these guys took their chances and are now a big part of Munster. Watch JJ from start of this season to end of next I will guarantee he will be capped by end of next season it rotating and developing

 

[psychic duck]

Misread on Stats and yes they're managed better but still win and are at business end of season so why should they flog players which I will reverse and ask - What does that say about Welsh teams if they are playing against "reserve" teams and still can't do anything yet they're going to produce in arguably a harder league.

It says 1) the Welsh teams have prioritised the HEC and lost dozens of their squad to internationals too and 2) have had their squads dismantled over the past few seasons.

As for the AP question, if it goes ahead then the Welsh will indeed struggle at first and nobody has claimed they are going to be winning the league right away, there would be rebuilding to be done at all 4 regions with the WRU having dismantled the squads.

 

[munstermuffin]

It says 1) the Welsh teams have prioritised the HEC and lost dozens of their squad to internationals too and 2) have had their squads dismantled over the past few seasons.

As for the AP question, if it goes ahead then the Welsh will indeed struggle at first and nobody has claimed they are going to be winning the league right away, there would be rebuilding to be done at all 4 regions with the WRU having dismantled the squads.

Well what does it say so that they have done absolutely nothing in Europe and only thing they really are remembered for in business end of Europe for is a hammering by Munster and loosing a penalty shoot out.
Also Irish provinces loose their players lots more to international scene when there's training camps as well as games so that's no excuse

And my point there how long will it be attractive if they are like the Italian teams of the AP