Toulon withdrawal

[j'nuh]

Well speaking of BS, that's coz Sale doesn't win its league, does it. In the Top 14 you lose one game at home, you're out basically. When you see La fukkng Rochelle putting 40 past Tier 1 Top 14 clubs, you start to get the kind of environment it is. Toulon need to stay ahead and get all the points they can, and because their ambitions are so elite, that includes wins away too, which they've acquired already. They only now got to the top of the table, which is late for them, and one faux pas and they're below their biggest rival Clermont, and possibly others. They've fielded local homegrown products and that's good enough imo but they could've had all int'ls (foreigner, or French). They can't fk around, not that single time even. Their culture of win-it-allness and sheer excellence won't allow a single slip, they can't just field 3rd stringers in the front row throughout and academy espoirs ? That's just bunkers, there's a world of difference in level.

Go see Laporte, look at him in the whites of the eyes and tell him "Hell, Sale put out academy tight 5s you know". I'm sure he'll take that notion very much at heart.

This would have a lot more traction if there wasn't a playoffs to determine who wins the Top14. You don't need to be the top team. Top 2 and a home semi helps, but realistically Toulon would have a decent chance even if they came outside the top 2.

Castres won from 4th place and 15-2-9 W-D-L in the league a couple of seasons ago. You can clearly slip up and still win.

This is just someone throwing their toys out the pram because of some perceived injustice. What the hell does he want anyone to do about this? Cancel international rugby? Invent a cure for injuries sustained in rugby? Create a law that means club owners can stop players from being called up by the national team?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Whether or not this impacts their ability to win the Top 14 is completely irrelevant.

Laporte is threatening not to play games due to missing players, his excuse for this is that it's to dangerous for the young guys to come in.
If Laporte's argument was that it's unfair he has to play, essentially, amateur players due to injuries/callups, whereas his opposition don't - then that's a completely different matter.

I don't understand why you can't understand this, and keep bringing up how losing a few games in the Top 14 puts you out of the race for the top spot.

 

[Big Ewis]

This would have a lot more traction if there wasn't a playoffs to determine who wins the Top14. You don't need to be the top team. Top 2 and a home semi helps, but realistically Toulon would have a decent chance even if they came outside the top 2.

Castres won from 4th place and 15-2-9 W-D-L in the league a couple of seasons ago. You can clearly slip up and still win.

seriously ?

As for the guys being difficult and overreacting, yes obviously there's some of that. But the greater point (some are having an amaaaazingly hard time assimilating) is Toulon has schemes for this year, on both fronts (national and continent), and have already burnt some cards away. They've had a rollercoaster ride all season with their contingent, and now with SEVEN absences from their front row they're obviously freaking out.
Discussing this any further, I don't see much purpose for.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Everyone has plans, everyone gets injuries.
They're not special little snowflakes.

 

[Big Ewis]

Everyone has plans, everyone gets injuries.
They're not special little snowflakes.

I SAID I DIDN'T WANT ANYMORE REPLIEs !!!!!!!!!

Well no they're not special little snowflakes...they're special little Mediterranean olives.

 

[smartcooky]

Let him withdraw. He knew all the players other than Chiocci and Menini were internationals prior to joining Toulon (he's lucky South Africa don't want Burden). He could argue Toulon are punished for having French internationals, however they won two championships on the basis of having few French internationals while teams like Toulouse lost their players. Like always, Laporte is throwing his toys out the pram because he doesn't want to have to play by the rules. Injuries and suspensions are unfortunate but it's something every club has to deal with. So no, I don't agree with him unless he genuinely feels there is no option left but to withdraw due to risks to player welfare. If that's the case then he absolutely should, but that's his problem and not anyone elses

On one side if the coin, I have no sympathy for him or Toulon. If you want to pay ridiculous, almost obscene sums of money to have the best players in the world playing for your team, don't turn into Mr cry baby when you lose a good part of your team for international duty.

On the other side of the coin, at least good on him for taking player safety seriously. Hey, Nobhead! Monsieur Noves! Are you listening?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

On one side if the coin, I have no sympathy for him or Toulon. If you want to pay ridiculous, almost obscene sums of money to have the best players in the world playing for your team, don't turn into Mr cry baby when you lose a good part of your team for international duty.

On the other side of the coin, at least good on him for taking player safety seriously. Hey, Nobhead! Monsieur Noves! Are you listening?

To be fair it's not Laporte paying the players is it?

---------------------------

It maybe a safety issue chucking kids in the front row in but ... these Academy kids are now a different species to academy players of past years. They are built to be able to at least be ready for senior rugby.

 

[smartcooky]

To be fair it's not Laporte paying the players is it?

True, that's why I said "I have no sympathy for him or Toulon"

You don't think BL is doing this completely off his own bat, without Boudjellal's implicit support?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I do suspect BL is speaking for MB to take some heat off him for his outburst earlier on in the season. Don't disagree with you there.

 

[Groundhog]

If a team with the outrageous depth and finances can't play through an injury crisis god help the rest of us. They without doubt could attract a medical joker for the time being if they trully felt their Academy players would be unsafe on the pitch. I find it really hard to believe that the senior academy guys are too physically unprepared to play Top 14 though. They're likely to be creamed technically, but they should have the size at least to be safe.
Results don't come into it by any means. If Laporte is speaking on behalf of his players' safety, fair play to him. I disagree it's really an issue, but more power to him.

 

[gaston le gaff]

WOW I get back from La Rochelle to find all 29 replies sat on my desk, i think some of you guys will discuss anything true or false does not anyone know this is absolute media hype by Toulon even the President quoted this morning that he may or could play next Sat???? i ask you complete and untter BS this thread, Toulon WILL play against Castres next Sat whatever happens and there will be Espoirs more than likely in the team end of Story!!!!!!! but he will milk it all week that's for sure how they have been stripped of their players by the FFR, i will be at the International next Sat and i'm sure i will see the Toulon players giving their all for France.Please do not believe all that comes from the Toulon comm, just hype plain and simple. Boujellal caught the disease from Noves who has been crying the same song for years but they never forfeited a match or even considered it.!!!
please enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FrenchFan]

It's bluff all the way from Laporte. Everyone knows that. They all fell for it. But the opportunity to have a whinge at Toulon and its evil money was just too good to be missed. They can't help themselves...

 

[gaston le gaff]

but i honestly think they do believe it, would you write 29 posts of pure fantasy, we know its media hype easy for me and you but the rest of them, its either they have nothing to do but slagg off Toulon and thats pure jealousy or they believe everything that comes from the Touon Comm, and that's even funnier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[smartcooky]

Bluff or no bluff, its still a halfwitted way of going about making a point. Just do what other coaches around the world do when they lose players to test duty; suck it up and get on with it. Honestly he and Noves will cause us to have to coin a new term..... Whinging Frog!

 

[FrenchFan]

no problem I'll take them any day over a ranting kiwi esp. when they're just playing the crowd.

 

[tituslechmakus]

That is amazing, the perception of other countries toward this story ! I'd wonder how would the Kiwis, Aussies ans Saffies react if the Super XV would keep going on DURING the 4 Nations ? Because, that is exactly why Laporte and Noves have been complaining all these years. Even if in this particular case, it is linked with Internationals and not 6 Nations, the main problem here and BL's argument is about the top 14 still ruinning during International matches. THAT is the point, and not the wounded or suspended. He's been coaching for 15 years, so I bet he knows about these things. But he (and Noves) does not accept having to play unfair top 14 games. And maybe, the only way he can affect events, is by withdrawaling a match. Something Toulouse never had the courage to do !


So, to summ up things, to all non-French-forumers, ask yourselves : do you find it normal to have your domestic championship running during International tests ?

 

[Big Ewis]

no problem I'll take them any day over a ranting kiwi esp. when they're just playing the crowd.

laisse béton vieux, des troudballes triso yen a plein de làbas, cherche pas...bref.

That is amazing, the perception of other countries toward this story ! I'd wonder how would the Kiwis, Aussies ans Saffies react if the Super XV would keep going on DURING the 4 Nations ? Because, that is exactly why Laporte and Noves have been complaining all these years. Even if in this particular case, it is linked with Internationals and not 6 Nations, the main problem here and BL's argument is about the top 14 still ruinning during International matches. THAT is the point, and not the wounded or suspended. He's been coaching for 15 years, so I bet he knows about these things. But he (and Noves) does not accept having to play unfair top 14 games. And maybe, the only way he can affect events, is by withdrawaling a match. Something Toulouse never had the courage to do !


So, to summ up things, to all non-French-forumers, ask yourselves : do you find it normal to have your domestic championship running during International tests ?

it's a positive initiative you would be interested in what ppl think about this, favoring discussion...but as you can see from some of the previous comments, indeed some are just playing crowd and finding this fertile ground to make another amalgam of the French and stigmatize us further. It's a popular practice amongst the lower classes in the English speaking world, and the gratuitous quality of it is just quite surprisingly random at times !

- Hmmm, I think Clermont made an interesting transfer there..
- Yeah well France are surrender monkeys !!
- :nea:


And ppl from the SH in particular can't understand because; whether good or bad, regardless of that whether good or bad; they play about 7 games per season and their league is basically country owned. France are never getting down to 5 teams lmao, and thank God. The fact we've got issues with the space the Top 14 is taking up is an issue to be solved on its own, but we're a large Rugby nation with history and an abundance of traditions from town to town and regionally. We were doing just fine with 14 teams up til recently anyways, so things aren't even close to fundamentally dysfunctional.

 

[tituslechmakus]

laisse béton vieux, des troudballes triso yen a plein de làbas, cherche pas...bref.



it's a positive initiative you would be interested in what ppl think about this, favoring discussion...but as you can see from some of the previous comments, indeed some are just playing crowd and finding this fertile ground to make another amalgam of the French and stigmatize us further. It's a popular practice amongst the lower classes in the English speaking world, and the gratuitous quality of it is just quite surprisingly random at times !

- Hmmm, I think Clermont made an interesting transfer there..
- Yeah well France are surrender monkeys !!
- :nea:


And ppl from the SH in particular can't understand because; whether good or bad, regardless of that whether good or bad; they play about 7 games per season and their league is basically country owned. France are never getting down to 5 teams lmao, and thank God. The fact we've got issues with the space the Top 14 is taking up is an issue to be solved on its own, but we're a large Rugby nation with history and an abundance of traditions from town to town and regionally. We were doing just fine with 14 teams up til recently anyways, so things aren't even close to fundamentally dysfunctional.

Well, I had not seen SH and Enland rugby fans as you described them, but the previous posts are changing my mind towards them ! Anything but jealousy towards our top 14 and it's attractivity. Something we are used to here with our soccer and French clubs unable to keep their best players, all going to Spain and England !

We are making big money here with rugby, but nothing comparable with soccer. Toulon is around 30-40 million Euros budget this season where PSG is 450 millions ... So what ? Not our fault if Super XV is unable to compete ... But it is easy for them to spit their venom on our faces ! I was expecting more fair play and respect from these people ! Rugby values in fact ! But it seems SH rugby fans are more into soccer values we are trying to avoid !!! Fortunatly for us, we can still chat with Welsh, Irish & Scottish !

 

[Big Ewis]

forget about words and notions like "jealousy" and such, it'll only make you look like you're being biased and proud, therefor in the wrong (when you're not, really). But you're of course conscious France has been the Tier 1 nation that's had the least exposure in the English speaking world, for obvious reasons; but also because we're dealing with a world that is so favorable to clichés and all things pre-established. We're very biased in France on certain points, and possess flaws other peoples do not, but we don't have this sovereign boorishness of the people to point fingers in all directions and accuse other peoples of being this or that with a disconcerting ease at every possible corner. That distinctly foolish cliché-based way of functioning is a thing of that world, you'll read/hear the strangest, most ignorant posts from ppl. They are so quick to turn anything into a cliché, it's just...stunning.

 

[tituslechmakus]

That's right, but I wasn't expecting it from Rugby fans !