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Wales V Argentina

Good game from Wales. Certainly our most convincing perfromance of the autumn. And we're now up one place in world rankings, and Shane's up two in the all-time top try scorers list, joint with Rory Underwood in 3rd. COME ON SHANEY!!
 
I used to like Shane Williams. But today when he scored the second try he deserved a good old behind the ear punch to flat him over.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 20 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LydiatesGirl @ Nov 20 2009, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ozzay @ Nov 19 2009, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is this Jason Tovey any good then? I don't watch the other regions, heard big things.
Would of been nice to give him a few games while Byrnes out[/b]

yes he is really good
[/b][/quote]

His form has dipped slightly this year though. He's been behind Martyn Thomas in the pecking order at fullback for the Dragons for the majority of this season, and Alridge has certainly been their number one outside half! He's still young though, and hopefully he'll get more game time at 10 either this season or next. He's a great reader of the game, and every time I've seen him play at 10, he's shown that he's a natural footballer and plays what's in front of him. I think that's where his future lies, however he was shoehorned in at 15 for Wales at U20 level, and again at the Dragon's due to their lack of cover in that position. Now that Martyn Thomas has emerged, maybe it will mean Tovey get's to play in his preferred position at 10.

Don't think he quite deserved a call up this Autumn, as Daniel Evans has been in better form this season. He was certainly unlucky to miss out on the Summer tour because of the Dragon's HC playoff, he's certainly one for the future though. Sure he'll be part of Wales' squad for the WC.
[/b][/quote]

yeah but he started the season well and only since his injury Martyn Thomas has taken over. Yeah Arlidge deserves to be number 1 outside half. Tov is 4th choice outside half because he prefers the fullback position (he told me the other week before our row)
 
was a scrappy game and Argentina played well especially Rodriguez
but we took our chances and obviously I am glad.
Also glad that Dan came on for his 1st cap although I thought he should have got more game time as Andy Powell wasn't that influential
 
Andy Powell actually had one of his less crap games. Seemed to get through more work than usual around the field, and didn't concede any stupid penalties or turnovers. However from the small amount of time Lydiate had, I was impressed. He looked comfertouble at this level, made a few good carries and was good in suppport. Looking forward to this young players future, as I am with a few other. Backrow is certainly looking healthy for the future with the likes of Lydiate, Warberton and Josh Turnbull (he won't take long before he's involved with Wales) all really stepping up this season.
 
Well, all of the Welsh tries should not have been tries. The first is debateable as it did look like a kick had been called. Whether it had or not is no excuse for Argentina turning their backs. A 50/50 call, I'll give it that.

The second was clearly a bad call from the ref, who did quite a lot to help Wales intentionally or not in this match. He gave too many 50/50 calls to Wales, penalties at the scrums, and the breakdowns being clear examples. So, the second try was scored based on Wyn Jones charging down the kick from an offside position. Wales scored when it should have been a penalty to Argentina. How did the ref and touch judge miss Wyn Jones's blatant offside position? Poor refereeing. See the below video at 1:13. As the Spanish commentary says ''clearly a penalty to Argentina'' As good as Shane WIlliams is that was not a try. WIll Paddy O'Brien appologise to Argentina?

The third was after Wales got the ball from a kick on by Lobbe who was tackled late. Again, it should have been a penalty to Argentina. Again, Shane Williams is a fantastic player but this was not a try. It was a penalty to Argentina. See the video at 2:04. No arguments can be made I'm afraid Wales. It was illegal. Did Rees use arms in the late tackle btw?

Les say Wales scored the first try fairly, so thats 14 points (2 tries) Wales scored illegally. Final score therefore should be Wales 19-16 Argentina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fYbxDl1Yyk

I am not whinging. In my mind this Argentina selection is missing far too many players to be able to compete with England or Wales. The fact that they are able to says wonders for the new found depth in Argentine rugby. Get back Hernandez, Leguizamon, Contepomi, Camacho, Amorisino, Fessia, Bosch and Figalloo and the team will be much stronger. The youth coming theough suggests the Tri Nations with Argentina will bre 4 solid teams. These young guys are going to develop into great players.

It is very unfortunate to think that los Pumas play so rarely and yet in this tour, like that of November 2009 they are severely injury ravaged. Very very bad luck.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Nov 21 2009, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Well, all of the Welsh tries should not have been tries. The first is debateable as it did look like a kick had been called. Whether it had or not is no excuse for Argentina turning their backs. A 50/50 call, I'll give it that.

The second was clearly a bad call from the ref, who did quite a lot to help Wales intentionally or not in this match. He gave too many 50/50 calls to Wales, penalties at the scrums, and the breakdowns being clear examples. So, the second try was scored based on Wyn Jones charging down the kick from an offside position. Wales scored when it should have been a penalty to Argentina. How did the ref and touch judge miss Wyn Jones's blatant offside position? Poor refereeing. See the below video at 1:13. As the Spanish commentary says ''clearly a penalty to Argentina'' As good as Shane WIlliams is that was not a try. WIll Paddy O'Brien appologise to Argentina?

The third was after Wales got the ball from a kick on by Lobbe who was tackled late. Again, it should have been a penalty to Argentina. Again, Shane Williams is a fantastic player but this was not a try. It was a penalty to Argentina. See the video at 2:04. No arguments can be made I'm afraid Wales. It was illegal. Did Rees use arms in the late tackle btw?

Les say Wales scored the first try fairly, so thats 14 points (2 tries) Wales scored illegally. Final score therefore should be Wales 19-16 Argentina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fYbxDl1Yyk

I am not whinging. In my mind this Argentina selection is missing far too many players to be able to compete with England or Wales. The fact that they are able to says wonders for the new found depth in Argentine rugby. Get back Hernandez, Leguizamon, Contepomi, Camacho, Amorisino, Fessia, Bosch and Figalloo and the team will be much stronger. The youth coming theough suggests the Tri Nations with Argentina will bre 4 solid teams. These young guys are going to develop into great players.

It is very unfortunate to think that los Pumas play so rarely and yet in this tour, like that of November 2009 they are severely injury ravaged. Very very bad luck.[/b]
Not trying to sound harsh but it sounds as if you are. First try was fine. Argentina weren't paying attention.Inexcusable at this level.

On the second try I think it could have gone either way. Very marginal offside. Anyway if the Argentine scrum-half had made a half-decent kick it would have never been on. Questions should also be asked of the Fullback.

As for the Third one I can see your point but Rees appears to be committed to the tackle before Lobbe kicks.

Argentina, with all of their injuries, can be excused their poor autumn but they haven't been very successful since the world cup when you look at their other results. Pretty sure there are a few games in there that they would like to forget( Italy, South Africa). I'm worried that Phelan may not be the man to lead them forward.
 
I understand where you are coming from Melhor. Some of the calls were 50/50. Luke Cherteris (Not Alun-Wyn) was very close to being off side, if not was. He did retreat, but was it to behind the backfoot? possibly not, but that kinda call happens in every game of rugby. For the third try, the only thing you can pull it up on was Rees' tackle. Was it late? No, he was committed. Was it an illegal challenge? Not in my opinion, he looks like was was pulling out of the tackle.

However, Wales were easily the better team in that game and fully deserved the scoreline. I'm slightly dissapointed that we couldn't capitalise on opportunities we'd created, instead we had to capitalise on mistakes by Argentina, but it doesn't really matter now. We know we can create scoring opportunities, and now we know we can finish half chances. When we combine the two effectively, we'll be in buisness big time.

Still so much to come from this Welsh side. Hopefully we can pick it up a bit more against Aus. Hugely looking forward to that game now. We'll be full of confidence and Aus are staring down the barrell of a very unsucksessfull tour. Would like to see Lydiate or JT coming in for Powell, Peel on for Cooper with Martyn Roberts on the bench. I'd also give another shot to Jonathan Davies in the centre.
 
What we got: Shane against Pumas? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bravo guyzzzz and bravo Shane :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rafa_1984 @ Nov 21 2009, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I used to like Shane Williams. But today when he scored the second try he deserved a good old behind the ear punch to flat him over.[/b]

erm...why? he took a while to put the ball down, whats wrong with that, players always do it?
Did anyone else see Martyn Williams' face when he pushed Shane over the line for his 1st try :lol: it simply read 'FFS PUT IT DOWN!' Classic
Dan Lydiate looked very impressive when he came on, carried and tackled very well. Really hope we see more of him soon. Nice to see Tom James was brought into the game a few times when he came on. (they didn't use that much of him against Samoa). Peel made a huge difference when he came on too really upped them tempo. If he doesn't start next week then Gatland is a ***.
MotM was a very close call between Stephen Jones and Fernandez-Lobbe, and it would have been a fair decision whichever way it went. Tbf, Lobbe was ridiculously good.
 
Good win and it was well deserved. Probably should have been more but lets not be greedy :lol:

Lobbe, despite having a cracking game, should not have been given motm. I think Stephen Jones should have been given it, damn you Brian Moore-on. Oh and their no. 2 should have been sin binned imo, there was one point in tyhe 2nd half where he gave away 2 or 3 penalties in a matter of a couple of minutes.

I think we will beat the Aussies next weekend.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 21 2009, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I understand where you are coming from Melhor. Some of the calls were 50/50. Luke Cherteris (Not Alun-Wyn) was very close to being off side, if not was. He did retreat, but was it to behind the backfoot? possibly not, but that kinda call happens in every game of rugby. For the third try, the only thing you can pull it up on was Rees' tackle. Was it late? No, he was committed. Was it an illegal challenge? Not in my opinion, he looks like was was pulling out of the tackle.

However, Wales were easily the better team in that game and fully deserved the scoreline. I'm slightly dissapointed that we couldn't capitalise on opportunities we'd created, instead we had to capitalise on mistakes by Argentina, but it doesn't really matter now. We know we can create scoring opportunities, and now we know we can finish half chances. When we combine the two effectively, we'll be in buisness big time.

Still so much to come from this Welsh side. Hopefully we can pick it up a bit more against Aus. Hugely looking forward to that game now. We'll be full of confidence and Aus are staring down the barrell of a very unsucksessfull tour. Would like to see Lydiate or JT coming in for Powell, Peel on for Cooper with Martyn Roberts on the bench. I'd also give another shot to Jonathan Davies in the centre.[/b]


Mate, try actually looking at the video I supplied before posting.

Luke Cherteris (Not Alun-Wyn) was very close to being off side, if not was. He did retreat, but was it to behind the backfoot? possibly not, but that kinda call happens in every game of rugby.

As the video shows he was on the ground, then stood up in an offside position and then charged down the kick. Never did he attempt to get onside and the ref made a poor call in not seeing this. I have already said when this happens and have supplied the video. Watch it.

For the third try, the only thing you can pull it up on was Rees' tackle. Was it late? No, he was committed. Was it an illegal challenge? Not in my opinion, he looks like was was pulling out of the tackle.

Actually there are three problems: 1. was the tackle late? Yes it was. 2. Was he committed to making the tackle? No he wasn't. 3. Did he use his arms or just his shoulder in the tackle. The video suggests shoulders. In plain english, three reasons to give Argentina a penalty, yet the ref missed all three and instead gave Wales the try. If he was pulling out of the tackle then it is still, in the least a penalty to Argentina for tackling without arms. Friends on another forum agree rgentins were robbed here and in the second try. Seriously, weatch the viedo evidence I have provided. It is overwhelmingly in support of what I have said.

However, Wales were easily the better team in that game and fully deserved the scoreline

Utterly irrelvent. Italy were better than New Zealand last week. New Zealand scored more points and won. I know Wales were better today, my post acknowledges this. Argentina, without 6 first choice players should not be competing against Wales or England but they are, they should be getting dominated. Now then, it is unfortunate for them that the referee forgot the offside rules (second try), and the tackle rules (third try). 14 non-valid points he missed. Then there is the first try, which plentty of fans are saying was illegal a the tee carrier was already entereing the field. Plenty of tv evidence supports this too.

We know we can create scoring opportunities, and now we know we can finish half chances. When we combine the two effectively, we'll be in buisness big time.

Fair point, but vs Samoa Wales couldn't and vs New Zealand Wales also couldn't. In the 6 Nations Wales only scored one try at the Milenium Stadium. I honestly, think this Wales team is severely overrated. The scrumagings of Argentina was talked down yet Wales were cheating the laws, like Italy vs NZ last week, and getting away with it. Don't get me wrong. Good on you. You defeated a world class team. Wales are good, but the reputation suggests they are as good as France or New Zealand which is simply not true at all. No disrepect intended. I like Wales a lot, honestly.

Wales should win vs Australia as Australia are not all that good right now. At their best they are like Ireland but at their worst they are far from being a top 8 team. If Argentina had been with their top players who are out injured and without a poor ref helping the opposition, knowingly or not, Wales would have lost this game by 15-20 points just like they did in Buenos Aires in 2006. Wales were very ordinary.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
As the video shows he was on the ground, then stood up in an offside position and then charged down the kick.[/b]
Uhhhh, I see him moving back. The attempt is there, he didn't go all the way back, but it's definitely marginal. He didn't just rush straight forward as you imply.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
1. was the tackle late? Yes it was. 2. Was he committed to making the tackle? No he wasn't. 3. Did he use his arms or just his shoulder in the tackle.[/b]
Strongly disagree with two. You can see his body position is lowered and he's heading toward the man as the kick is made . There's no way he can just stop moving from that point. That would also rule out point 1 as an arguement. Now number 3? Different kettle of fish, you may have a point there but it was a stupid kick in the first place to be honest and even if Lobbe hadn't been tackled I think he outcome would have been the same.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Utterly irrelvent. Italy were better than New Zealand last week.[/b]

No they weren't. Sergio Parisse and Italy's scrum were Superb but they have zero attacking power out wide. You can't say a team is better than the other when they don't threaten the line for 70 minutes of the game. Italy are better without the ball than with it, which tells you all you need to know.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Nov 22 2009, 03:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 21 2009, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand where you are coming from Melhor. Some of the calls were 50/50. Luke Cherteris (Not Alun-Wyn) was very close to being off side, if not was. He did retreat, but was it to behind the backfoot? possibly not, but that kinda call happens in every game of rugby. For the third try, the only thing you can pull it up on was Rees' tackle. Was it late? No, he was committed. Was it an illegal challenge? Not in my opinion, he looks like was was pulling out of the tackle.

However, Wales were easily the better team in that game and fully deserved the scoreline. I'm slightly dissapointed that we couldn't capitalise on opportunities we'd created, instead we had to capitalise on mistakes by Argentina, but it doesn't really matter now. We know we can create scoring opportunities, and now we know we can finish half chances. When we combine the two effectively, we'll be in buisness big time.

Still so much to come from this Welsh side. Hopefully we can pick it up a bit more against Aus. Hugely looking forward to that game now. We'll be full of confidence and Aus are staring down the barrell of a very unsucksessfull tour. Would like to see Lydiate or JT coming in for Powell, Peel on for Cooper with Martyn Roberts on the bench. I'd also give another shot to Jonathan Davies in the centre.[/b]


Mate, try actually looking at the video I supplied before posting.

Luke Cherteris (Not Alun-Wyn) was very close to being off side, if not was. He did retreat, but was it to behind the backfoot? possibly not, but that kinda call happens in every game of rugby.

As the video shows he was on the ground, then stood up in an offside position and then charged down the kick. Never did he attempt to get onside and the ref made a poor call in not seeing this. I have already said when this happens and have supplied the video. Watch it.

For the third try, the only thing you can pull it up on was Rees' tackle. Was it late? No, he was committed. Was it an illegal challenge? Not in my opinion, he looks like was was pulling out of the tackle.

Actually there are three problems: 1. was the tackle late? Yes it was. 2. Was he committed to making the tackle? No he wasn't. 3. Did he use his arms or just his shoulder in the tackle. The video suggests shoulders. In plain english, three reasons to give Argentina a penalty, yet the ref missed all three and instead gave Wales the try. If he was pulling out of the tackle then it is still, in the least a penalty to Argentina for tackling without arms. Friends on another forum agree rgentins were robbed here and in the second try. Seriously, weatch the viedo evidence I have provided. It is overwhelmingly in support of what I have said.

However, Wales were easily the better team in that game and fully deserved the scoreline

Utterly irrelvent. Italy were better than New Zealand last week. New Zealand scored more points and won. I know Wales were better today, my post acknowledges this. Argentina, without 6 first choice players should not be competing against Wales or England but they are, they should be getting dominated. Now then, it is unfortunate for them that the referee forgot the offside rules (second try), and the tackle rules (third try). 14 non-valid points he missed. Then there is the first try, which plentty of fans are saying was illegal a the tee carrier was already entereing the field. Plenty of tv evidence supports this too.

We know we can create scoring opportunities, and now we know we can finish half chances. When we combine the two effectively, we'll be in buisness big time.

Fair point, but vs Samoa Wales couldn't and vs New Zealand Wales also couldn't. In the 6 Nations Wales only scored one try at the Milenium Stadium. I honestly, think this Wales team is severely overrated. The scrumagings of Argentina was talked down yet Wales were cheating the laws, like Italy vs NZ last week, and getting away with it. Don't get me wrong. Good on you. You defeated a world class team. Wales are good, but the reputation suggests they are as good as France or New Zealand which is simply not true at all. No disrepect intended. I like Wales a lot, honestly.

Wales should win vs Australia as Australia are not all that good right now. At their best they are like Ireland but at their worst they are far from being a top 8 team. If Argentina had been with their top players who are out injured and without a poor ref helping the opposition, knowingly or not, Wales would have lost this game by 15-20 points just like they did in Buenos Aires in 2006. Wales were very ordinary.
[/b][/quote]

I disagree, Charteris did make an effort to get behind the offside line, the question is did he go back enough? If he was offside it was only marginal. It wasn't as if he blatantly offside and jumped up on the scrum half. It was a matter of centremetres tbh, and didnt; make that much difference because the kick was a terrible one.
I'm not sure with the Rees tackle, I don't see it as late because he looked very much commited. Not sure with the shoulder chqarge thing though, it may or may not have been. Just one of those 50 - 50 calls I guess. And anyway, I looked at your video, and if you look at how Lobbe got the ball in the 1st place, you see Roncero taking out Cooper off the ball, or did that escape your notice? There was a lot of that the from the Argie front row, a lot of penalties for taking players out off the ball, hands in the ruck and not rolling away. More than a cause for a sin bin? As Bristol-iain said, Ledesma gave away a string fo 3 penalties in the space fo a few minutes. Can;t see how Paul James was 'cheating'? Brian Moore had a bit of a rant about him 'not binding on the shirt, but on on the arm', which was a bit wtf because when they did a close up shot Paul James was gripping the shirt just under the arm pit area. But then again, it's Brian Moore, he likes the sound of his own voice having a rant.

''If Argentina had been with their top players who are out injured and without a poor ref helping the opposition, knowingly or not, Wales would have lost this game by 15-20 points just like they did in Buenos Aires in 2006. Wales were very ordinary.''

Ah and of course this was a full strength Wales side? No Adam Jones, Ian Evans, Mike Phillips, Gavin Henson, Tom Shanklin or Lee Byrne? All Grandslam winners and all, bar one, British and Irish Lions? We've been lacking creativity this Autumn because players like Phillips, Henson and Byrne are some of the ones that spark things off for us. Byrnes running lines and Hensons passing skills have been sorely missed. And what has a match played over 3 years ago in Argentina with an out of sorts young Wales side (James Hook was making his full debut - and he was still playing for semi-pro Neath at the time) coached by one of the worst coaches we've had for a long time, got to do with this match? Three years is a long time, and Wales have improved massively under Warren Gatland, so I doubt we'd have lost by 15 - 20 points. It would have been a completely different match, but not a one-sided thrashing to Argentina.

EDIT: Oh yeah forgot to say, Stephen Jones' try was 100% legal, there was no signal and no tee, he's more than entitled to take a tap and go for the corner.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Uhhhh, I see him moving back. The attempt is there, he didn't go all the way back, but it's definitely marginal. He didn't just rush straight forward as you imply.[/b]

To an onside position? Do you see that? The video shows he stood up and failed to get onside and then charged down the ball. He was, without question, offside. Not marginal at all. It is there on the video I provided. No questions, nothing. Zero. The player committed a penalty which the referee missed and Wales then scored a try. 100% illegal and poor referring. We can argue and argue but it is there on the video I providedl Not a try, no doubt about it.

Honestly, why bother making the post that you have after I posted this video. You have no argument. The video evidence is undeniable. He was offside.

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1. was the tackle late? Yes it was. 2. Was he committed to making the tackle? No he wasn't. 3. Did he use his arms or just his shoulder in the tackle.[/b]
Strongly disagree with two. You can see his body position is lowered and he's heading toward the man as the kick is made . There's no way he can just stop moving from that point. That would also rule out point 1 as an arguement. Now number 3? Different kettle of fish, you may have a point there but it was a stupid kick in the first place to be honest and even if Lobbe hadn't been tackled I think he outcome would have been the same.
[/b][/quote]

Whats it the problem with 2? He made a late tackle. The video proves this. Again, 100% proof. Rees was not committed but made the tackle. Now, I have experience as a referee and a player and I know when a player is committed to atackle and the video shows Rees certainly was not. I watched it again after reading your post and I certainly do not agree with you at all. It looks clear. The Welsh defender saw Lobbe going for a kick and went for the tackle after he had kicked it. In legal terms that equates to a late tackel whether you like it or not.

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Utterly irrelvent. Italy were better than New Zealand last week.[/b]

No they weren't. Sergio Parisse and Italy's scrum were Superb but they have zero attacking power out wide. You can't say a team is better than the other when they don't threaten the line for 70 minutes of the game. Italy are better without the ball than with it, which tells you all you need to know.
[/b][/quote]

I certainly do not want to use this topic to debate about one of my beloved test teams, Italy. I agree they have limited attack, no quesiton about this. But, my point was that despite Italy not scoring a try they did have more opportunities than new Zealand to do so. New Zealand only scored one, which in itself is a huge reflection of the state of the current Italian team. Italy got close to scoring on a number of occassions but failed to do so. So, whether or not Wales were better than Argentina or not is irrelevent because often better teams on the day lose. In this game we are discusing Wales won and by a good score, yet their tries were all dubioius and two were simply not tries. I will not respond to you if you reply to my post as there is no need to do so as, I repeat, the video link I posted demonstrates that the second Wslh try was illegal and that the third was two.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Nov 22 2009, 04:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Uhhhh, I see him moving back. The attempt is there, he didn't go all the way back, but it's definitely marginal. He didn't just rush straight forward as you imply.[/b]

To an onside position? Do you see that? The video shows he stood up and failed to get onside and then charged down the ball. He was, without question, offside. Not marginal at all. It is there on the video I provided. No questions, nothing. Zero. The player committed a penalty which the referee missed and Wales then scored a try. 100% illegal and poor referring. We can argue and argue but it is there on the video I providedl Not a try, no doubt about it.

Honestly, why bother making the post that you have after I posted this video. You have no argument. The video evidence is undeniable. He was offside.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
1. was the tackle late? Yes it was. 2. Was he committed to making the tackle? No he wasn't. 3. Did he use his arms or just his shoulder in the tackle.[/b]
Strongly disagree with two. You can see his body position is lowered and he's heading toward the man as the kick is made . There's no way he can just stop moving from that point. That would also rule out point 1 as an arguement. Now number 3? Different kettle of fish, you may have a point there but it was a stupid kick in the first place to be honest and even if Lobbe hadn't been tackled I think he outcome would have been the same.
[/b][/quote]

Whats it the problem with 2? He made a late tackle. The video proves this. Again, 100% proof. Rees was not committed but made the tackle. Now, I have experience as a referee and a player and I know when a player is committed to atackle and the video shows Rees certainly was not. I watched it again after reading your post and I certainly do not agree with you at all. It looks clear. The Welsh defender saw Lobbe going for a kick and went for the tackle after he had kicked it. In legal terms that equates to a late tackel whether you like it or not.

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Utterly irrelvent. Italy were better than New Zealand last week.[/b]

No they weren't. Sergio Parisse and Italy's scrum were Superb but they have zero attacking power out wide. You can't say a team is better than the other when they don't threaten the line for 70 minutes of the game. Italy are better without the ball than with it, which tells you all you need to know.
[/b][/quote]

I certainly do not want to use this topic to debate about one of my beloved test teams, Italy. I agree they have limited attack, no quesiton about this. But, my point was that despite Italy not scoring a try they did have more opportunities than new Zealand to do so. New Zealand only scored one, which in itself is a huge reflection of the state of the current Italian team. Italy got close to scoring on a number of occassions but failed to do so. So, whether or not Wales were better than Argentina or not is irrelevent because often better teams on the day lose. In this game we are discusing Wales won and by a good score, yet their tries were all dubioius and two were simply not tries. I will not respond to you if you reply to my post as there is no need to do so as, I repeat, the video link I posted demonstrates that the second Wslh try was illegal and that the third was two.
[/b][/quote]
I love that responce. Won't accept any possible other interpretation and then decides if you don't agree with me I'm not going to talk to you. Nice.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 22 2009, 04:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Nov 22 2009, 04:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Uhhhh, I see him moving back. The attempt is there, he didn't go all the way back, but it's definitely marginal. He didn't just rush straight forward as you imply.[/b]

To an onside position? Do you see that? The video shows he stood up and failed to get onside and then charged down the ball. He was, without question, offside. Not marginal at all. It is there on the video I provided. No questions, nothing. Zero. The player committed a penalty which the referee missed and Wales then scored a try. 100% illegal and poor referring. We can argue and argue but it is there on the video I providedl Not a try, no doubt about it.

Honestly, why bother making the post that you have after I posted this video. You have no argument. The video evidence is undeniable. He was offside.

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1. was the tackle late? Yes it was. 2. Was he committed to making the tackle? No he wasn't. 3. Did he use his arms or just his shoulder in the tackle.[/b]
Strongly disagree with two. You can see his body position is lowered and he's heading toward the man as the kick is made . There's no way he can just stop moving from that point. That would also rule out point 1 as an arguement. Now number 3? Different kettle of fish, you may have a point there but it was a stupid kick in the first place to be honest and even if Lobbe hadn't been tackled I think he outcome would have been the same.
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Whats it the problem with 2? He made a late tackle. The video proves this. Again, 100% proof. Rees was not committed but made the tackle. Now, I have experience as a referee and a player and I know when a player is committed to atackle and the video shows Rees certainly was not. I watched it again after reading your post and I certainly do not agree with you at all. It looks clear. The Welsh defender saw Lobbe going for a kick and went for the tackle after he had kicked it. In legal terms that equates to a late tackel whether you like it or not.

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Utterly irrelvent. Italy were better than New Zealand last week.[/b]

No they weren't. Sergio Parisse and Italy's scrum were Superb but they have zero attacking power out wide. You can't say a team is better than the other when they don't threaten the line for 70 minutes of the game. Italy are better without the ball than with it, which tells you all you need to know.
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I certainly do not want to use this topic to debate about one of my beloved test teams, Italy. I agree they have limited attack, no quesiton about this. But, my point was that despite Italy not scoring a try they did have more opportunities than new Zealand to do so. New Zealand only scored one, which in itself is a huge reflection of the state of the current Italian team. Italy got close to scoring on a number of occassions but failed to do so. So, whether or not Wales were better than Argentina or not is irrelevent because often better teams on the day lose. In this game we are discusing Wales won and by a good score, yet their tries were all dubioius and two were simply not tries. I will not respond to you if you reply to my post as there is no need to do so as, I repeat, the video link I posted demonstrates that the second Wslh try was illegal and that the third was two.
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I love that responce. Won't accept any possible other interpretation and then decides if you don't agree with me I'm not going to talk to you. Nice.
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It's all kicking off...
I've been overlooked it seems :( Damn you people who post a few seconds after I do.
 

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