Warm Up Match 6: Waikato Chiefs v British & Irish Lions (Hamilton)

[Penne Rara]

And I mostly agree, but there's a difference between the calculated risk taking in sensible areas of the field and some of the insane chip kicks you sometimes see when under pressure near your own line. The All-blacks take risks but they take the correct risks.

Interesting.

This is probably not only an All Blacks v Super Rugby sides thingy, I think it is inherent to the way Kiwis like their rugby: Improvising and playing what's in front of you. And I don't know if there is such a thing as a correct or incorrect risk. Sometimes you take a risk and your pals are here to back your decision so it works well in the end, which is why NZ rugby thrives on support running and almost entirely depends on it. Sometimes, it doesn't work and we all know plenty of occasions when a player tried a risky move and it miserably fails.

One that comes to my mind is Beauden's offload last Saturday as he was going to ground. It was intercepted by a Samoan player and many pundits will say he messed up big time on that occasion. However, he took a risk and it didn't pay off because he was unlucky (a Samoan player burst on his side and he had nearly no vision when he passed the ball), there's nearly no difference between that and another "calculated" risk such as a kick pass or a bomb.

If the move is successful, people will laud the player for his flair, intuition and rugby smarts. If it fails, the decision will be deemed idiotic and poor.

Another example. Steven Luatua was interviewed shortly after the Blues won against the Lions. The interviewer asked him if his "offload to SBW was a set move". He answered just that:
"I should have let it go earlier, but I didn't see the space, luckily the big man (SBW) runs some good lines, so I just threw it up there"

(in this article, Ioane is mentioned but the man who offloaded to SBW is Luatua)

It just goes to show that sometimes you try a move and it reaps huge rewards but you were not even certain it would work in the first place. NZ rugby is about a good comprehension of each other's strengths and weaknesses, knowing that you have a certain margin for errors and trying to play within that margin. The only difference between success and failure is luck in most cases. But I do agree that good execution and intelligent play helps widen the margin.

 

[mosfeldt]

I am haka'd out of it. It has lost it's allure and mystique. I know I know it's NZ culture and it's done everywhere all the time by schools and whatnot, but I've gotten to the point where I mute it - as I always do with national anthems - and just wait for the game to start. Do think it was a little bit unnecessary for all these SR sides and to have their own haka but if they wanna do it fair enough. I'm sure what we think of the haka is the last of their priorities. Still though, did you see yer man with axe against the Maoris? Getting a bit much lol.

 

[valley commando]

Agree valley commando, best at it in the world - Get away with it more than anyone , must also be to do with thier fans on the rugby forums blaming the referee after every game they lose ie scrum, offiside etc

Cant belive we havent had a mass of bad losers on here again! Come on lads you know who you are!!!

In a way we probably have had a fair few of their fans moaning as I have had 5 dislikes on the post you replied to and you have had a couple, it may tarnish your reputation if you agree with me on other posts.
Just checked your line has a lot of red so your reputation is not much better than mine.
All the best mate.

 

[MikeTheNative]

The players are pros and I expect them to push the boundaries of what they get away with it. If your going to blame anyone blame the refs and assistants who missed the infringing. I'm not sure where a case of he said she said really get's us anywhere.

 

[valley commando]

Agree valley commando, best at it in the world - Get away with it more than anyone , must also be to do with thier fans on the rugby forums blaming the referee after every game they lose ie scrum, offiside etc

Cant belive we havent had a mass of bad losers on here again! Come on lads you know who you are!!!

In a way we probably have had a fair few of their fans moaning as I have had 5 dislikes on the post you replied to and you have had a couple, it may tarnish your reputation if you agree with me on other posts.

I am haka'd out of it. It has lost it's allure and mystique. I know I know it's NZ culture and it's done everywhere all the time by schools and whatnot, but I've gotten to the point where I mute it - as I always do with national anthems - and just wait for the game to start. Do think it was a little bit unnecessary for all these SR sides and to have their own haka but if they wanna do it fair enough. I'm sure what we think of the haka is the last of their priorities. Still though, did you see yer man with axe against the Maoris? Getting a bit much lol.

Yes I think the Haka has been de-valued and should only be performed by the AB's and the Maori's, our boy's have faced it that many times this tour it will have zero effect on them.

 

[Jockstap]

I am haka'd out of it. It has lost it's allure and mystique. I know I know it's NZ culture and it's done everywhere all the time by schools and whatnot, but I've gotten to the point where I mute it - as I always do with national anthems - and just wait for the game to start. Do think it was a little bit unnecessary for all these SR sides and to have their own haka but if they wanna do it fair enough. I'm sure what we think of the haka is the last of their priorities. Still though, did you see yer man with axe against the Maoris? Getting a bit much lol.

It actually probably benefits the Lions more, before this tour most of the lads would have coincided a pre-game Haka to a loss. That aura is gone now.

 

[Larksea]

went to the game, good atmosphere I think Hamilton is one of the best grounds to watch rugby in NZ.

never expected the chiefs to win this with a makeshift side, Lions are all generally seasoned internationals and this chiefs team had a number of guys who are basically super rugby Rookies. having this game so close to an AB test and the Maori game kinda ruined what could have been a good contest.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Highlanders didn't do a haka....

 

[Nubiwan]

You don't make a good omelette without breaking eggs is what I often repeat. New Zealand SR teams usually take a lot of risks, but when they pay off, the reward is 10 times more enjoyable for the spectators. I prefer to watch a team that loses by taking risks than a team that wins without trying anything at all.
The NZ national team is well balanced between conservative play and risky decision making. Combine that with great handling skills and you've got a clinical, lightning fast attack and effective defense.

Agree! Rather die with your boots on trying, than take it on your knees, is what I always say. In any sport. Nothing worse than seeing a team come off the field knowing they had more in them than they showed.

 

[Reiser99]

Midweek team finally replicated the defence and control of the weekend team. At the moment Warburton is the only back row player who hasn't look part of a functioning back row. Thought this back row of Tipuric, Haskell and Stander was the same against the loss to the blues. For me though the main feature was the use of the backs. Far more passing, though I also think Daly and Nowell came off their wings more than other wings have in previous games to look for the ball. Nowell's first try was from a ruck that was miles from his wing. I think though it does need to be taken with a pinch of salt as the Chiefs clearly were second best. It'll be a tricky time for Gatland deciding between Daly, Nowell and Williams. However I think he'll stick with his original plan for this weekend. However if the Lions lose and the Tuesday team gets another good win, then I can see lots of changes, especially in the backs.

 

[Scotty]

Lions team for first test
1. mako E
2. George E
3. furlong I
4. Itoje E
5. Kruise E
6. Cj Stander I
7. Tipperic W
8. Falatau W
9. Murray I
10. Farrell (if fit) E
11. Daly E
12. Henshaw I
13. JJ E
14. Watson E
15. Williams W

8 english
4 irish
3 welsh
Thats my starting xv im a bug fan of nowell but his positioning has been quite bad despite the chiefs game performance and george north i rate highly but only if the game plan gets him alot of ball or he can be anonymous.

16 best
17 McGrath
18 Sinkler
19 AWJ
20 o,brien
21 webb
22 sexton
23 nowell. Can make an impact

Thats my 23 for the next game any thoughts or changes? Gatland will prob play wales team with a token englishman.

 

[Reiser99]

I'd say start O'brien and Tipuric on bench, because the O'Brien. POM, Faletau combo has worked well. As for the rest, I like it, though might possibly have Te'o instead of Henshaw, because Henshaw hasn't had the same impact. However while the forwards are close to Gatlands thinking, I think the backs are way off except for Murray and Watson. Sexton had a good week last week, so I think they won't risk starting Farrell, even if he has recovered.

 

[Scotty]

I'd say start O'brien and Tipuric on bench, because the O'Brien. POM, Faletau combo has worked well. As for the rest, I like it, though might possibly have Te'o instead of Henshaw, because Henshaw hasn't had the same impact. However while the forwards are close to Gatlands thinking, I think the backs are way off except for Murray and Watson. Sexton had a good week last week, so I think they won't risk starting Farrell, even if he has recovered.

Farrel if at 100% put him in any less save him for second so i agree.

I get it about the back row but i think the speed of tipuric the power of stander and the all round game of falatau (who i rate v highly after what ive seen this tour) i just think that combo woulf work well, o brien bench as impact player.

I rate teo, hes a strong runner but henshaw seems to distribute more where as teo though picks some great lines but he can take it in when the pass is the better option. And we need that ball out to the likes of williams watson jj daly. All can be amazing with quick ball. But just my opinion i dint disagree with any that you said it does make sense

 

[galumay]

Well that was the best we have seen the Lions play to date, sure it was against a very understrength Chiefs team, but they actually looked to have some real potency in attack for a change. It keeps the fans interest up prior to the test and thats a good thing.

 

[Reiser99]

Farrel if at 100% put him in any less save him for second so i agree.

I get it about the back row but i think the speed of tipuric the power of stander and the all round game of falatau (who i rate v highly after what ive seen this tour) i just think that combo woulf work well, o brien bench as impact player.

I rate teo, hes a strong runner but henshaw seems to distribute more where as teo though picks some great lines but he can take it in when the pass is the better option. And we need that ball out to the likes of williams watson jj daly. All can be amazing with quick ball. But just my opinion i dint disagree with any that you said it does make sense

Oh I definitely like your team. I just don't see Gatland being that ambitious. He likes strong defences with power runners to make holes that are then exploited, with less emphasis on intricate back play. It's why it often works well against teams late on when they are tired. You backs focus more on attack than defence which is the wrong way round for Gatland.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Much better from everyone yesterday and it was good to see that Wingers finally getting some decent ball and showing what they can do. Stander finally showing what he can actually do to the opposition and I thought both locks were excellent. I would have Lawes on the bench Saturday with either Tipruic or Stander but I don't that's going to happen. Williams also showing why he should have been given a chance at Full Back before this as after Hogg's injury I think he is the best one on the squad.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I'm inclined to agree, with a rider, the depleted Chiefs team are a loooooong way from a 1st pick All Black team.
The Lions can only play whats in front of them but it's a tall order choosing players to step up several levels from playing a depleted Waikato side to taking on the best in the world in their own back yard.
It's very difficult to judge who will handle the pace and power that will come to the fore on Saturday, when looking at the Chiefs result.
However, I'm inclined to agree with your player and position choices.

I'm expecting Gatland to be thinking a little more defensively.

 

[Nubiwan]

Lions team for first test
1. mako E
2. George E
3. furlong I
4. Itoje E
5. Kruise E
6. Cj Stander I
7. Tipperic W
8. Falatau W
9. Murray I
10. Farrell (if fit) E
11. Daly E
12. Henshaw I
13. JJ E
14. Watson E
15. Williams W

8 english
4 irish
3 welsh
Thats my starting xv im a bug fan of nowell but his positioning has been quite bad despite the chiefs game performance and george north i rate highly but only if the game plan gets him alot of ball or he can be anonymous.

16 best
17 McGrath
18 Sinkler
19 AWJ
20 o,brien
21 webb
22 sexton
23 nowell. Can make an impact

Thats my 23 for the next game any thoughts or changes? Gatland will prob play wales team with a token englishman.

Your flankers will not start IMHO. Obrien, Omahoney and Warbley are likely ahead of them for the test. Question of which two. Sexton will be 10. In fact from 10 out, I think only Daly and Watson should have reasonable chances. Te'o and Davies likely starters in test 1. 1/2 pint more then likely 15. Those who played Waikato, were essentially playing for a bench spot.

Understand, this is not me saying you are right or wrong, just that I think the side is already picked from those who did not play in Waikato. The players who might have changed the "selection committee's" minds were those out on the wings, who rather flourished. Our wings and fullback have looked mediocre at best until this admittedly weak Waikato team.

Some players are simply looking like walk ons for the test IMHO, and not because they have showed anything special on tour.

 

[Nubiwan]

If we happen to get battered in the first test, then be very interesting to see what combinations are used in subsequent tests.

Clearly, the lions MO is to keep it nice and tight, kick to the box, defend like our lives depended on it, run hard from centre, box kick, secure our own line out and hope our scrum can man up under what promises to be extreme pressure. When all else fails, kick to the box. I think I have it about right. Wings and full back (outside goal kicking duties) are rather supplemental to our plan, in fairness. Mere selection issues more than anything.

The tone for the test series will be set in game 1. If the Lions come out with at least a modicum of self beleif, then I do not see much in the way of changes for remaining test. Perhaps tweaks at best. Rightly so.

If we get battered, then we might see some wholesale changes in tight 5, back row, 10, centre, and back 3. Rather depends where the All blacks have the most joy. Could be everywhere. Here is hoping the ABs feel some pressure, and don't run rampant. A great deal will depend on our front row. If Vunipola can stay steady, then game on. If our front row disintegrates, long day.

Personally expecting a reasonably tight match. Lions have had some pretty solid warm up, while ABs had a game of touch with Samoa. That has to work in our favour. If we play out of our skins, then who knows. If we get battered, hopefully we can blame all the welsh players Gatland gave a free ride.

Last bit is intended as a tongue in cheek slap, but the possibility is frustratingly all too real. If warburton, AWJ, north, and 1/2 pint all start, then I say based on what?

 

[Nubiwan]

Much better from everyone yesterday and it was good to see that Wingers finally getting some decent ball and showing what they can do. Stander finally showing what he can actually do to the opposition and I thought both locks were excellent. I would have Lawes on the bench Saturday with either Tipruic or Stander but I don't that's going to happen. Williams also showing why he should have been given a chance at Full Back before this as after Hogg's injury I think he is the best one on the squad.

Last two games have been convincing, but the opposition has probably been the weakest. Still, I think any lions team we picked now would go back and win those games we lost. Is that fair to say? Just think we are slowly getting better.