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your thoughts on the tournament so far?

  • Thread starter THE CHIROPRACTOR101
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THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
being that the finals is just around the corner,what are you thoughts on the tournament so far?...there are many issues to discuss..one being the inclusion of the so called "minnows"..some saying they should scrap them,others saying they should combine the pacific island nations..i personally rubbish all of that and a proven fact is the competitive levels of the smaller nations and the heart and desire of playing which has outshined alot of the top-tier teams...



The Minnows?

are they just gimmicks of rugby? there for showcase?...i dont believe so..they are at this point but what happens when teams start upsetting the bigger nations...none of you welsh laughed when you guys lost to samoa in the 99 world cup...i look at argentina and set them as the bench mark..they were the minnows a long time ago but pleaded for more test level experience..they slowly gained that and vio'la..1 match away from a quater final spot and a serious contender at that...i compare them to a team like portugal or even the pacific island nations..they are the bench mark for which the smaller teams should follow



all the mini victories such as scoring a try or getting a bonus for these smaller nations really boost there confidence and as a fan of rugby..i appreciate them treating the game as it should be and as it was before the turn of the professional era...and you nay sayers of them should too as they keep the game rooted of the world scene..so stop f***ing hating..they are a few sponserships and games away from being where argentina is now...



The Level of Competition?

well, like i said above..the smaller nations have been a delight to watch..tonga being dubbed "the darlings" of the world cup (im pretty sure if you called them that in real life they would punch you in the face) but this has been a positive and maybe a negative..and i say that for a team like the allblacks who havent had a decent run yet..being that there pool hasnt met them on the same level..that being said though..experiences a plenty for young teams and young players...and its the key tool of marketing for creating new rugby stars in places like portugal,uruguay etc...as for the top tier nations...i havent seen anything more reccomendable then maybe the allblacks first game..where they ambushed and murdered the italians..the south africa/england game just proved how sloppy england have become..and how much the south africans have developed there skills..nothing much in that game..the france and argentina match was to set the pace of the tournament..it was a very solid victory for argentina..the tonga/south africa match just showed that there is still heart in the pacific for this game at this level and that the south africans have depth..but they are certainly not up to speed with there best 15..the australians being discreet and quietly confident with victories over fiji and wales..they pose a threat by not being totally noticed by the fans and media,they just going about business..so over all...the minnows providing a more enthusiastic approach to the game..i dont know if thats helped at all the top tier nations or not...but im seeing the world class rugby and the majority of it is coming from these teams..so good on them



The Finals...Who can win it?

based on what ive seen from the top teams...im confident the all blacks can do it...but..im confident that the springbokkes can wit it...then the aussies who have been out of the spotlight and without pressure have that suprise element that can knock any team out of this tournament...what ever is to happen to the 'pool of death' teams and who progresses still pose a threat..after watching 99 and 03..anything is possible..there are heaps of faults in the allblacks game yet to be exploited..if we are to meet to french in the quaters..then this time it will not be like the northern tours of the past four years...judging on what ive seen in the pool games..the finals series will be very tight..and im not expecting a giant score line like the allblacks/wales finals match at the last world cup..the bokkes have the 2 best scrum halves in the game..and if the game is gonna be determined by the speed of the ball and the accuracy then they can dominate..but after watching guys like finau maka,nili latu and henry tuilaga just plow right through there loosies..it makes you wonder what a wycliff palu or sione lauaki can do to upset there rhythm on defence...im still undecided about the french..but everyone is..you just dont know what you will get from them and as of late is been pretty messy..they could turn up to the finals and be the best team there..and thats if they make it..being a supporter of the ab's im obviously picking them to go through and do the goods..but like i said..they have weakeness in that chink of armour they have



so whats you say?
 
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shazbooger

Guest
Hmmm two other things of note;

Northern Hemisphere Rugby aint anywhere near where it should be given this is the world cup. Only France look capable of competing but depending on the results over the weekend they may be walking into a quarter final V's New Zealand.

THis leads me nicely onto point two.

The way the French crowds have turned out and supported every single match is an absolute credit to the Nation. Every game has had a fantastic, almost carnival, atmosphere. The minnows have been cheered at every turn and pretty much every team has been treated with respect. Contrast that with the atmosphere's (or lack of) in Cardiff and Edinburgh. It goes to show the value of keeping the tournament in one country. I hope we dont see this kind of nonsense again.

Finally, on the minnows. Its been an impressive run, but were still seeing the 70-100 point drubbings we have always seen. I still believe that four teams should be removed for the next tournament.
 
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THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
hmmm..good point..that just means a team off the total pool...which could work well..means those teams that dont make the cut will have to work harder to get a spot coz ya still gonna get the charity case of a team at the world cup...but i guess that gives more of a chance to teams like samoa and tonga or fiji to get better chances and gettin a finals spot

oh no doubt my bad for leaving off the french public and all the other venues that are participating..its makes for all the more enjoyable viewing experiences for the broke dudes who cant get there lol...its been wonderful viewing and at times looks like sevens circuit interms of fan fare and support!
 
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TongaFan

Guest
although the name is probably a bit of a giveaway I'm absolutely loving Tonga in this tournament. Particularly Finau Maka and his awesome afro! Although I'm English I've got a real tough choice making up for the Tonga v England game. I don't know who to support!

As Logorrhea mentioned earlier it was brilliant how the neutrals in the crowd got behind Tonga in the match against South Africa. Their disappointment when the ref blew for full time was audible.

Also I couldn't agree more with what Chiropractor said earlier. I'm all for 'minnows' in this world cup. Sure they might take the odd beating but the passion and heart shown by the likes of Portugal (against New Zealand) and Georgia (against Ireland) was great to see. With a bit of backing they could potentially do well in the next world (or possibly the one after). Everyone struggles at first - just look at Italy in the Six Nations.
 
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TVH11

Guest
Well so far i have really enjoyed the tournament so far, the quality for rugby hasn;t been mind blowing, but its been damn exiting. from a neutral point of view, some of the so called "minows " have played some really good stuff, my pic goes to japan. They got some exiting runners, one good thing from this (not really rugby related, but konami may dive into rugby games????? could be). from a welsh point of view, well it speaks for its self. Our performances to date have been totally contrasting to the previous worl cup, in the sence that 2003 we could compete for first 40, then just die away. But now its let them score twenty points, and then we'll go chasing, and against the "smaller nations" it has worked, but as we all saw against the top 10 teams, its a tactic that is not going to succeed. Before the competition i had great optimism in wales reaching a semi: winning the group, beating england in quarters and then who knows. But as we've all seen, it has not happened, we are playing for survival now, but hey would it be welsh rugby with no drama.Providing that we beat fiji, which will be an immense task, i don't know where we shall go from here. South affrica seem to have it all: Massive forwards and elusive backs. we can only wait and see!!!
 
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jamesfk

Guest
I agree the quality of rugby hasnt been great, especially from the bigger nations. The best rugby has come from the minnows and that is why they should keep them in 2011. The IRB needs to up the quality of lesser teams and getting rid of them isnt going to do it.
 
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THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
oh good point...cant eliminate them in full..but i like the idea that Logorrhea put forward in getting rid of 4..and making a pool of 4 in each one..
the teams that dont manage to make it have to work abit harder..and with the help of some funding from the useless i.r.b they can get resources and build a better structured tournament outside the best teams in the world..just creates comp for the lesser teams...if this goes forward then i reckon even teams like portugal or japan can topple the likes of samoa and tonga to gain entry into a smaller world cup..it makes all the 2nd tier nations hungrier and ups the ante on the level of there football

but all this starts at the top...and **** they havent even helped the pacific island nations as much over the 10years of pro rugby so its a long shot for teams like portugal and the likes...but im enjoying the quality of there game none the less
 
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Brodizzle

Guest
oh good point...cant eliminate them in full..but i like the idea that Logorrhea put forward in getting rid of 4..and making a pool of 4 in each one..
the teams that dont manage to make it have to work abit harder..and with the help of some funding from the useless i.r.b they can get resources and build a better structured tournament outside the best teams in the world..just creates comp for the lesser teams...if this goes forward then i reckon even teams like portugal or japan can topple the likes of samoa and tonga to gain entry into a smaller world cup..it makes all the 2nd tier nations hungrier and ups the ante on the level of there football

but all this starts at the top...and **** they havent even helped the pacific island nations as much over the 10years of pro rugby so its a long shot for teams like portugal and the likes...but im enjoying the quality of there game none the less
[/b]
Nah, doubt this would work...what these teams need is increased competition, the world cup gives that. If you restrict them coming in there they will languish in mediocrity as they will never face the real proffesional competition, I mean, just because you don't like watching mismatches doesn't mean they don't like playing it, turn off your TV if you don't like it.

The solution to grow rugby is to bring in a 'plate' for the minnows to fight for, that is your motivation....the direction we need to go is to increase the teams, the plate system would mean that the minnows no longer go home empty handed, and of course there should be a significant cash reward for doing so....we need to go about expanding the sport, make the Rugby World Cup the Rugby equivilent of the Football world cup....the beauty in rugby is that everyone can play it, whether it be the fat kids or the fit kids....the minnows are currently the fat kids but if you give them time they will get fitter and fitter....
 
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shtove

Guest
I was ticked off in the first week with the amount of up-and-unders, but that seems to be dying down. Teams probably trying to find their feet.

French support is good, and Tonga is de best.
 
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stormmaster1

Guest
best thing for the tournament has been the play of the Minnows, particularly Georgia v Ireland. I missed the SA - Tonga match but here that was also pretty good. The disappointment has been the standard of play from many 6N teams, particularly England and Ireland. As rugby in general, defence has largely been good, particularly in terms of discipline: this got France a losing bonus v Argentina when they were played off the park in the first half.
 
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RoyalBlueStuey

Guest
best thing for the tournament has been the play of the Minnows,
[/b]

And the support the French supporters have given them.

It's been great so far...I think if the big clashes don't disappoint it'll be the best world cup yet.
 
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THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
oh good point...cant eliminate them in full..but i like the idea that Logorrhea put forward in getting rid of 4..and making a pool of 4 in each one..
the teams that dont manage to make it have to work abit harder..and with the help of some funding from the useless i.r.b they can get resources and build a better structured tournament outside the best teams in the world..just creates comp for the lesser teams...if this goes forward then i reckon even teams like portugal or japan can topple the likes of samoa and tonga to gain entry into a smaller world cup..it makes all the 2nd tier nations hungrier and ups the ante on the level of there football

but all this starts at the top...and **** they havent even helped the pacific island nations as much over the 10years of pro rugby so its a long shot for teams like portugal and the likes...but im enjoying the quality of there game none the less
[/b]
Nah, doubt this would work...what these teams need is increased competition, the world cup gives that. If you restrict them coming in there they will languish in mediocrity as they will never face the real proffesional competition, I mean, just because you don't like watching mismatches doesn't mean they don't like playing it, turn off your TV if you don't like it.

The solution to grow rugby is to bring in a 'plate' for the minnows to fight for, that is your motivation....the direction we need to go is to increase the teams, the plate system would mean that the minnows no longer go home empty handed, and of course there should be a significant cash reward for doing so....we need to go about expanding the sport, make the Rugby World Cup the Rugby equivilent of the Football world cup....the beauty in rugby is that everyone can play it, whether it be the fat kids or the fit kids....the minnows are currently the fat kids but if you give them time they will get fitter and fitter.... [/b][/quote]



hey thats a much better idea...so you mean like the sevens system? or a more refined way?..it would be cool to introduce these 'minnow' teams into the finals along side the top tier/qualifying nations..i mean by giving them that same atmosphere..that would be cool and would be a great spectacle for both the fans and the the countries own support
 
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bangbangtim

Guest
I was ticked off in the first week with the amount of up-and-unders, but that seems to be dying down. Teams probably trying to find their feet.

French support is good, and Tonga is de best. [/b]

The up and unders were effective. Look at how much damage South Africa did against England with that tactic!! Yes it's not the most fun to watch in the majority of cases but there's nothing quite like seeing Habana sprinting towards the ball at such a scary pace...

I say South Africa to win in the final:)
 
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fcukernaut

Guest
hey thats a much better idea...so you mean like the sevens system? or a more refined way?..it would be cool to introduce these 'minnow' teams into the finals along side the top tier/qualifying nations..i mean by giving them that same atmosphere..that would be cool and would be a great spectacle for both the fans and the the countries own support[/b]



Don't forget the added revenue from more fixtures on the calender.
 
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Brodizzle

Guest
hey thats a much better idea...so you mean like the sevens system? or a more refined way?..it would be cool to introduce these 'minnow' teams into the finals along side the top tier/qualifying nations..i mean by giving them that same atmosphere..that would be cool and would be a great spectacle for both the fans and the the countries own support
[/b]
Sevens never really took off in Australia so I only know of the general system of thier being different 'classes' of rewards...

I think that the main cup shold proceed as normal, the top 8 going into the quarters, while the next 8 go into the 'minnow' quarters with the bottom four teams via points differentials etc. (as some won't win a game in the pool stages) going home. Or perhaps the top 8 go to regular world cup, the next four go into semis for a mid-range nations cup and the next four go into a semi for a minnow cup and the last four go home. I think that even the smallest of teams deserve the right to play the All Blacks so the pools should stay the same but with the added motivation of a minnow title the minnow nations will compete much better and field number 1 sides as they know if they limit thier point differential they will be a shoe in for the minnow cup or even the mid-range cup.

These games will all run on the same schedule (except on differing days) so that the world cup isn't any longer, yet thier is a whole lot more rugby. I mean, imagine on the Friday having the minnow cup in the afternoon, followed by the mid-nation cup with the World Cup final on the Saturday...it would be crazy!

I think to stop countries purposely losing games in the pools to drop down to the mid range cup so that they are assured silver ware there should be scaled funding for qualifying for each group, although unfair for the minnows who get less for winnign and qualifying then the larger nations at least it will help more than what they get now...

The good thing about the three cup system as it has room for expansion in the future when other nations start seeing that there is good money to be had in the world cup, even for the smallest teams, and they get some teams ready. Down the line the lower cups can be raised to 8 teams per cup, eventually with 8 teams missing out as well, this would bring the teams up to 32 which at the current moment seems absolutely crazy but in 20 + years, if a similar system is implemented I don't see why this can't happen, the added motivation will spur the smaller teams on and despite the fact there could be huge defeats in the pool stages it won't matter as much anymore as there will always be a goal for a team, no matter what size, and there will still be dissappointment for teams that don't play well, eg. those teams not good enough for even the minnow cup. It may be smart to bundle the minnow matches with the mid-range matches, perhaps as a curtain raiser so that there won't be any empty stadiums....

Anyway, enough ranting, it seems complicated perhaps and somewhat over-estimating the popularity of rugby around the world but it's a dream....
 
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Bail

Guest
My main thought is the evidence of a two division rugby. Division Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, and division with the other. I never see such a domination from the SH, they are stronger, faster, have better hands, this is much of a domination... There were before five teams able to win the WC now there are only three, I don't think this is what the IRB expected...
 
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THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
hey thats not the southern hemis problem and i dont think its entrirely the irb's problem..they should however inject stricter laws on how much players that the northerners get from here..and they should fund more into the sponserships and player salaries to keep them here...i know its gonna be complicated..but the fact is the southerners are pursuing the north for riches and thats where you guys lose out..and at the same time are pretty much undermining the growth of your rugby..while not intentionally at all its diffinitely disrupting the depth of the european rugby scene....

thats why i hate when you guys bag the allblacks or the tri-nations and dont constructively critique your own methods of development...and theres a reason why only one team has won the world cup from the north and i believe its because all the time you invest in blabbering about our players and then using our resources to help your own provincial game
 
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shiznit

Guest
the problem with the northern sides is for every player we lose to europe another 3 kids step up... i dont see that in the NH sides.

Take Chris Jack for example... hes off to Europe.. hes a great player and whichever club got him will be well off... but you look at the talent at home.. James Ryan & Jason Eaton have already impressed at all black level. Hayden Triggs from Manawatu for mine has been the lock of the Air NZ Cup. then theres Reid and O'neil from Canterbury...

Luke McAlister is gone yet weve got the likes of Bowden from Northland, Stanley & Munroe from Auckland, Delaney from BOP, Ellison from Wellington, Kahui & Sweaney from Waikato, Taoso from Counties, Bateman from Canterbury & Wilson from Southland just banging the door down asking for an opportunity....
 
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THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
and carters look alike 'stephen brett'...one of the sharpest players going around..
 
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Ihsaan

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
oh good point...cant eliminate them in full..but i like the idea that Logorrhea put forward in getting rid of 4..and making a pool of 4 in each one..
the teams that dont manage to make it have to work abit harder..and with the help of some funding from the useless i.r.b they can get resources and build a better structured tournament outside the best teams in the world..just creates comp for the lesser teams...if this goes forward then i reckon even teams like portugal or japan can topple the likes of samoa and tonga to gain entry into a smaller world cup..it makes all the 2nd tier nations hungrier and ups the ante on the level of there football

but all this starts at the top...and **** they havent even helped the pacific island nations as much over the 10years of pro rugby so its a long shot for teams like portugal and the likes...but im enjoying the quality of there game none the less
[/b]
Nah, doubt this would work...what these teams need is increased competition, the world cup gives that. If you restrict them coming in there they will languish in mediocrity as they will never face the real proffesional competition, I mean, just because you don't like watching mismatches doesn't mean they don't like playing it, turn off your TV if you don't like it.

The solution to grow rugby is to bring in a 'plate' for the minnows to fight for, that is your motivation....the direction we need to go is to increase the teams, the plate system would mean that the minnows no longer go home empty handed, and of course there should be a significant cash reward for doing so....we need to go about expanding the sport, make the Rugby World Cup the Rugby equivilent of the Football world cup....the beauty in rugby is that everyone can play it, whether it be the fat kids or the fit kids....the minnows are currently the fat kids but if you give them time they will get fitter and fitter....
[/b][/quote]

How about we just add Argentina to the Tri Nations, and call that the World Cup. Then the other World Cup can be for all the Northern Hemisphere and Pacific Island teams.

In all seriousness, this has been a mismatch, with very few tighy games. Tonga vs South Africa was one, and there were a couple last night, but I'm looking forward to the weekend and the pool deciders, which have to be tight, surely?
 
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