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A Political Thread pt. 2

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AlRums said:
Coming from someone who almost never quotes a source, huffpost is just as reliable as any other.

The fact you don't like it is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
I don't like it, because like this article it is embarrassingly inaccurate.

Have you watched the video?



Quote me in the video where he threatens Americans who are against deportations, go on ill wait
 
But even forgetting this case specifically, look at the level of journalism directly below the header:

"This is how freedom of speech dies," one person said

Come on, that's ludicrous
 
dirty harry said:
www.bbc.com

Kilmar Abrego Garcia and MS-13: What is alleged and what we know - BBC News

BBC Verify looks at the evidence behind allegations that the Salvadoran mistakenly deported to a mega-prison was a dangerous gang member.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

This is a decent summation
Click to expand...
Is it, all it says is the evidence was he was

A) loitering whilst wearing sports clothing sometimes associated with gangs. Also with some tattoos. We now know that a tattoo used to train us enforcement was in fact a tattoo from a man in Derby who used a tattoo to commemorate his daughters birth.

B) a complaint from his wife subsequently withdrawn.

C) was caught speeding.

Also some unknown hidden statement purportedly from a court.


He was protected from deportation by a court order from that same court which the US then ignored by bypassing the courts.

Bear in mind all these claims are coming solely from the strumpet white house which we know never lies!!!
 
dirty harry said:
I don't like it, because like this article it is embarrassingly inaccurate.

Have you watched the video?



Quote me in the video where he threatens Americans who are against deportations, go on ill wait
Click to expand...

I guess the word "implied" in the article is too hard for you.

For your education here is the dictionary definition.

dictionary.cambridge.org

implied

if something is implied, it is understood to be true or to exist, although it…
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org

Actually the article is very accurate to the video, you just chose to reinterpret it to be argumentative.
 
AlRums said:
Is it, all it says is the evidence was he was

A) loitering whilst wearing sports clothing sometimes associated with gangs. Also with some tattoos. We now know that a tattoo used to train us enforcement was in fact a tattoo from a man in Derby who used a tattoo to commemorate his daughters birth.

B) a complaint from his wife subsequently withdrawn.

C) was caught speeding.

Also some unknown hidden statement purportedly from a court.


He was protected from deportation by a court order from that same court which the US then ignored by bypassing the courts.

Bear in mind all these claims are coming solely from the strumpet white house which we know never lies!!!
Click to expand...

I mean, I don't like the way you downplay these incidents, the other men in the parking lot were confirmed gang members, his wife made complaints of years of abuse, and the 'speeding' violation led to an FBI investigation for human trafficking, which was suddenly dropped by local law enforcement...

Accuracy is important, I'm not trying to overplay these incidents, but you down play them, why?

I don't know about the deportation block, I'm not that far in, my post is only that it's muddy waters this far, and that Huffpost can quote themselves, and misquote people all they like, they know about as much as we do, which isn't that much, especially considering that 2 judges have confidential information that allowed them to make the decision.

At least you must find the humour in him making the claim he isn't MS13, but he can't go home because his rival Barrios will hurt him lol
 
AlRums said:
I guess the word "implied" in the article is too hard for you.

For your education here is the dictionary definition.

dictionary.cambridge.org

implied

if something is implied, it is understood to be true or to exist, although it…
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org

Actually the article is very accurate to the video, you just chose to reinterpret it to be argumentative.
Click to expand...
"Trump Adviser Has Bone-Chilling Threat For Americans Who Oppose Deportations"

I can read, where is the word 'implied' in the title?
 
"Actually the article is very accurate to the video"

And on this note I'm out, thisnis a lack of integrity on your part, without honesty there is little point continuing.
 
dirty harry said:
2 judges presided over it, on 2 separate occasions and used the confidential information and, a year apart agreed that there was plenty of evidence...
Click to expand...
Please don't ever go into politics. I'd hate to see the justice system under you.

"Yeah, we have a bit of evidence."
"Great, lock him up, that's enough."

I know you said it's muddy, but the whole point of an impartial, judicial system is to protect innocent people. You don't convict on a probably and even attempting to imply that the US Government was correct is ridiculous. The issue has nothing to do with the man in question, the issue is that the US Government is ignoring the law and operating without accountability. Shifting the conversation onto whether the guy 'might' have been guilty is pathetic.
 
Reiser99 said:
Please don't ever go into politics. I'd hate to see the justice system under you.

"Yeah, we have a bit of evidence."
"Great, lock him up, that's enough."

I know you said it's muddy, but the whole point of an impartial, judicial system is to protect innocent people. You don't convict on a probably and even attempting to imply that the US Government was correct is ridiculous. The issue has nothing to do with the man in question, the issue is that the US Government is ignoring the law and operating without accountability. Shifting the conversation onto whether the guy 'might' have been guilty is pathetic.
Click to expand...
As I've stated, I'm not making a statement of who is right or wrong, i font know yet without further reading.

I merely claimed the waters are muddy around the case, I hadn't commented on it because I had skimmed a few articles about a 'Maryland father'. It's notnproving as simple as poor father accidentally deported and refused return home...

The true story is potential MS13 gang member, who admitted to illegally entering the USA, who contributed decently over 20 years, had a small number of brushes with law enforcement regarding gang activity, human trafficking, and domestic abuse, was deported supposedly illegally to El Salvador, and was imprisoned. He is believed innocent by Democrats, guilty by Republicans, and there is enough confidential evidence to convince 2 separate judges of his MS13 links...

Is that a fair summation? It's pretty along the lines of the BBC article no?

The legalities around his deportation I'm just getting into, but it's difficult with so many sources politically biased for and against.
 
dirty harry said:
As I've stated, I'm not making a statement of who is right or wrong, i font know yet without further reading.

I merely claimed the waters are muddy around the case, I hadn't commented on it because I had skimmed a few articles about a 'Maryland father'. It's notnproving as simple as poor father accidentally deported and refused return home...

The true story is potential MS13 gang member, who admitted to illegally entering the USA, who contributed decently over 20 years, had a small number of brushes with law enforcement regarding gang activity, human trafficking, and domestic abuse, was deported supposedly illegally to El Salvador, and was imprisoned. He is believed innocent by Democrats, guilty by Republicans, and there is enough confidential evidence to convince 2 separate judges of his MS13 links...

Is that a fair summation? It's pretty along the lines of the BBC article no?

The legalities around his deportation I'm just getting into, but it's difficult with so many sources politically biased for and against.
Click to expand...
His position as a gang member is largely irrelevant to the issue of the legality of his deportation. Yes there may have been evidence for the criminal things you listed, however he hadn't been convicted of gang activity. In a system that values the rule of law, that's an important distinction.

As it stood by law, courtd had said he could not be deported back to El Salvador. This was ignored by the Trump administration. They then ordered his plane be turned back, this was also ignored by the Trump administration. The supreme court itself then ordered they take every measure to repatriate him, this has also been ignored. If you were going to attempt to test the waters of how far you could get ignoring court orders on deporting people you shouldn't, can you think of a better case to use?

The Trump administration has now shown full willingness to ignore what the courts say and it lays the groundwork for deporting other people they have no right to deport. It also lays the groundwork for ignoring the supreme court on other issues.

That's a far bigger issue than if he was or wasn't a gang member. If he was then go through the correct legal process and prove it.
 
dirty harry said:
As I've stated, I'm not making a statement of who is right or wrong, i font know yet without further reading.

I merely claimed the waters are muddy around the case, I hadn't commented on it because I had skimmed a few articles about a 'Maryland father'. It's notnproving as simple as poor father accidentally deported and refused return home...

The true story is potential MS13 gang member, who admitted to illegally entering the USA, who contributed decently over 20 years, had a small number of brushes with law enforcement regarding gang activity, human trafficking, and domestic abuse, was deported supposedly illegally to El Salvador, and was imprisoned. He is believed innocent by Democrats, guilty by Republicans, and there is enough confidential evidence to convince 2 separate judges of his MS13 links...

Is that a fair summation? It's pretty along the lines of the BBC article no?

The legalities around his deportation I'm just getting into, but it's difficult with so many sources politically biased for and against.
Click to expand...
Sorry, my fault. I've stayed out of this thread because it's gotten so extreme. I'm not going to keep discussing things with when you completely ignore what I say.

Tbh, I'm fed up with this thread and so much focus on America. They voted for Trump, they made their bed. Unless it affects the rest of the world, I honestly don't care what they do over there.
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
His position as a gang member is largely irrelevant to the issue of the legality of his deportation. Yes there may have been evidence for the criminal things you listed, however he hadn't been convicted of gang activity. In a system that values the rule of law, that's an important distinction.

As it stood by law, courtd had said he could not be deported back to El Salvador. This was ignored by the Trump administration. They then ordered his plane be turned back, this was also ignored by the Trump administration. The supreme court itself then ordered they take every measure to repatriate him, this has also been ignored. If you were going to attempt to test the waters of how far you could get ignoring court orders on deporting people you shouldn't, can you think of a better case to use?

The Trump administration has now shown full willingness to ignore what the courts say and it lays the groundwork for deporting other people they have no right to deport. It also lays the groundwork for ignoring the supreme court on other issues.

That's a far bigger issue than if he was or wasn't a gang member. If he was then go through the correct legal process and prove it.
Click to expand...
I can agree with 90% of this, however from what I'm reading now he's in an El Salvador prison the US government's hands are tied.

So from what I've read so far, mostly from ABC news who seem to have the least biased view, is that he was picked up by ICE, and due to an admin error claiming he was a convicted MS13 gang member was deported, and subsequently imprisoned in El Salvador. Once this was sorted the comments I'm seeing are that the US can't actually do anything.

I havnt found anything of planes being ordered to turn around, if you'd be kind enough to post some links that would be great.

But what I disagree with you is intent by the Trump government to continually ignore due process, I just havnt read anything along those lines that hold water
 

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