A Political Thread pt. 2

[Welsh Exile]

Apart from the ones they took hostage?

Really, that’s your response to what I wrote? At least you’re not contesting the meat of it I guess.

Yes they also took babies and Holocaust survivors into torture dungeons for political purposes as well.

Doesn’t change the fact it was 100% genocidal.

 

[McTallshort]

Really, that's your response to what I wrote? At least you're not contesting the meat of it I guess.

Yes they also took babies and Holocaust survivors into torture dungeons for political purposes as well.

Doesn't change the fact it was 100% genocidal.

Yes it is my response. You throw the word genocide about but have a hissy fit when people direct that at a country that is actually commuting genocide. You try and justify what the IDF are doing any way you want but repeated attacks on civilians, civil healthcare, civil infrastructure, UN peacekeeping, holding up food and aid while having 2 millions people under siege at the same time trying to settle land that isn't there is ******* GENOCIDE!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yes it is my response. You throw the word genocide about but have a hissy fit when people direct that at a country that is actually commuting genocide. You try and justify what the IDF are doing any way you want but repeated attacks on civilians, civil healthcare, civil infrastructure, UN peacekeeping, holding up food and aid while having 2 millions people under siege at the same time trying to settle land that isn't there is ******* GENOCIDE!

Yes, I contend it is a war. I honestly don’t know what to say to people who think it’s the same as October 7th. Did you see any of the footage from October 7th. If you didn’t I suggest you watch it then come tell me with a straight face it’s the same thing.

 

[McTallshort]

Yes, I contend it is a war. I honestly don't know what to say to people who think it's the same as October 7th. Did you see any of the footage from October 7th. If you didn't I suggest you watch it then come tell me with a straight face it's the same thing.

The only reason the IDF is doing what it's doing is to keep a criminal in power and has **** all to do with October 6th.

 

[Welsh Exile]

The only reason the IDF is doing what it's doing is to keep a criminal in power and has **** all to do with October 6th.

I don’t think that is the only reason. I don’t even think Netenyahu has carte Blanche control over the IDF anyway. That’s certainly a factor in this though I agree.

I think both sides genuinely think the other is trying to wipe the other out from existence. The difference is I look at the actions of Hamas and I look at the actions of the IDF and I see a world of difference in how they operate and what their main goals are. I believe, though I agree there is an element of dragging this war out, that the IDF’s main aim is to eradicate Hamas. You either think that’s a fair military aim or not.

This is why I asked why are millions displaced? Is it because they’re moving them around Gaza to try and avoid civilian deaths where they can by getting them out of the kill zones? Or are they just doing it for a laugh? You can’t have it both ways, they’re either displacing people or you’re genociding them. Hamas weren’t looking to displace peope (other than the hostages) they went on a rampage and targeted civilians. The IDF are targeting Hamas in a tiny urban area against an enemy whose whole strategy is to want their population to die. As many as possible. It’s quite unique in that sense.

 

[McTallshort]

You know what. I'm not going to go round in circles again with you on this. I think if Israel dropped a nuke on Gaza you would find some way of justifying it. On this subject talking to you is like talking to a russian bot on Ukraine. I'm out

 

[Welsh Exile]

You know what. I'm not going to go round in circles again with you on this. I think if Israel dropped a nuke on Gaza you would find some way of justifying it. On this subject talking to you is like talking to a russian bot on Ukraine. I'm out

Fair enough except I’m not a bot and just have a different view to you on this.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Funnily enough, you could, in theory, drop a nuke on a place and it technically, in some rare instances, not constitute a genocide. For example, if a country genuinely thought and had intelligence that they were just about to be attacked by a nuke and did a preemptive strike that technically wouldn't be a genocide even if you killed 100 thousand people or whatever as the Dolis Specialis (or special intent relating to genocide) wound not be met.

But in the Gaza situation, yes, I would consider dropping a nuke on Gaza to be genocidal. Just as I would if it came out that generals, foot soldiers and pilots were all operating under orders to not target Hamas and instead target civilians.

 

[Reiser99]

This is not true though is it, just days ago Isreal signed off on a ceasefire... Hamas rejected it.

You can claim isreal are the ones continuing, but when Hamas refuse ceasefire options, especially withbunreasonable demands, what do you want from them?

There could be no fighting, and aid being brought into the Country today, but because of Hamas decision recently there isn't. That's factual no?

I'm just going to put it succinctly.

You're a **** with no respect for human life.

 

[Reiser99]

I don't know what the latest is but there are some Palestinians towards the end of March and through April and Now (I think) who are protesting against Hamas (some say in their thousands) which considering they know they and their families will likely be tortured and killed is incredibly brave.

Look, we won't agree but I see both a legal and a moral difference between October 7th and the subsequent Israeli response but that's because I see this as a war and you see it as a genocide. A genocide, or attempted, is what October 7th was not the collateral damage of Palestinians in a war. I do question the Israeli governments competency but then they don't have compete control over the IDF and while I'm sure there have been war crimes committed (as there are in any wars) it's a war. But hey, if it turns out that the IDF from top down are rolling out orders to kill kids and that all comes to light I'll hold my hands up. I don't think that is what's happening though.

If you think Hamas is guilty of genocide but Israel isn't, then yeah we aren't going to agree.

 

[Welsh Exile]

If you think Hamas is guilty of genocide but Israel isn't, then yeah we aren't going to agree.

I would only add the caveat of, what I see at the moment it does not appear to be a genocide but instead a nation engaging in urban warfare. I’m not convinced at all that it is a genocide but that does not mean it definitely isn’t or that my mind can’t change if other evidence comes to light.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm just going to put it succinctly.

You're a **** with no respect for human life.

That’s a tad harsh.

 

[Reiser99]

That's a tad harsh.

I don't think so when he is basically saying that Hamas is responsible for the war continuing and the innocents being slaughtered because even though Israel broke the original ceasefire, by not surrendering to Israel's demands it's their own fault. God forbid Israel be held accountable for it's own actions.

 

[dirty harry]

I'm just going to put it succinctly.

You're a **** with no respect for human life.

Well aren't you a sweet heart lol

But I'm confused, are you disagreeing that Hamas just refused a 60 day ceasefire?

 

[McTallshort]

Welsh Exile has a new friend!

 

[dirty harry]

Welsh Exile has a new friend!

Don't align me with that TDS suffering genocidal supporting maniac!!!!!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Welsh Exile has a new friend!

Team Zion

 

[McTallshort]

I would only add the caveat of, what I see at the moment it does not appear to be a genocide but instead a nation engaging in urban warfare. I'm not convinced at all that it is a genocide but that does not mean it definitely isn't or that my mind can't change if other evidence comes to light.

What you are seeing? You're not seeing anything apart from what the IDF are allowing you to see because all press is banned from the area...wonder why that is

 

[Welsh Exile]

What you are seeing? You're not seeing anything apart from what the IDF are allowing you to see because all press is banned from the area...wonder why that is

Not really, the IDF don't put much out. I'll tell you who does put out a lot of stuff. Hamas.

 

[McTallshort]

Not really, the IDF don't put much out. I'll tell you who does put out a lot of stuff. Hamas.

Yes, ignore the press blackout and talk about Hamas. Like Trump ignoring the stock market crashing and talking about Biden.