A Political Thread pt. 2

[ncurd]

Honestly the major difference between Reform & Brexit Party/UKIP/BNP/Whatever right wing shitfaces came before is the collapse of the Tories.

The Tories tore themselves apart and have continuously put a string of ever increasing no hopers in charge. Johnson/Truss/Sunak/Baendoch never should of been in charge of major political party and in the case of three of them Prime Minister. This has damaged the brand to almost the point of no return. Leaving huge swathes of right wing voters with nowhere to turn.

I think Farage being the face of "legtimate" "far right" politics is more happy circumstance for him than political nouce beyond his base support.

 

[ncurd]

Also think crediting Brexit to Farage alone and not Johnson is a massive mistake. Even though I don't understand why if Johnson popularity completely plummeted people dont see Farage as the same shake oil salesman.

 

[McTallshort]

Also think crediting Brexit to Farage alone and not Johnson is a massive mistake. Even though I don't understand why if Johnson popularity completely plummeted people dont see Farage as the same shake oil salesman.

Sorry you're wrong. Farage was the real face of Brexit for 15 years before the vote. Yes he needed a couple of "big hitters" like Boris and Gove but he was Brexit, I know this because I nearly voted for it.

 

[dirty harry]

Great post. I love the idea of British politics having a disrupter. It's much needed. I'm just a bit disappointed that it's not a liberal center left party that is doing the disrupting. No matter how fed up I am of the Tories or Labour I just don't believe that Farage will make things better. All I see is a more isolated Britain in Europe and a more divided country that becomes even more subservient to American conservatives.

I've said before that Farage is a brilliant communicator and without him Reform would be a nothing party. If only the Lib Dems had more backing and a leader who could communicate and resonate with people like him.

This is key, the left doesn't have anyone with balls, anyone who is steadfast and refuses to bend or back down. That's why the likes of Trump, Farage, Milei etc do so well...

I've been screaming out for some strength and leadership from Labour for years, it refuses to come.

I think that's the problem the left has across the west at the minute, the right are being proactive, stating their beliefs chest out and proud, regardless of whether you agree with their policies they at least are picking a direction. Whereas the left, and more established and establishment candidates are more reactive, and willing to bend to public will.

Starmer won prime minister not from anything he did, because he lost votes from Corbyn which is an amazing failing. He won because the Tories capitulated. If he wants to stay where he is, flip flopping on taxing the country, and spouting right wing immigration reform after getting decimated locally isn't going to help.

Who in the Labour Party currently has any conviction in their vision for Britain?

 

[dirty harry]

Honestly the major difference between Reform & Brexit Party/UKIP/BNP/Whatever right wing shitfaces came before is the collapse of the Tories.

The Tories tore themselves apart and have continuously put a string of ever increasing no hopers in charge. Johnson/Truss/Sunak/Baendoch never should of been in charge of major political party and in the case of three of them Prime Minister. This has damaged the brand to almost the point of no return. Leaving huge swathes of right wing voters with nowhere to turn.

I think Farage being the face of "legtimate" "far right" politics is more happy circumstance for him than political nouce beyond his base support.

I get where this thought process is coming from, statistically Starmer won because of Tories, and the leaving Tory vote had to go somewhere...

But to avoid complacency, like that of those who laughed at Trump 2016, I think we need to learn from that mistake and credit Farage on where he is strong, attribute to him some pretty hefty cultural moments and change, that what we are better placed to counter.

 

[ncurd]

Sorry you're wrong. Farage was the real face of Brexit for 15 years before the vote. Yes he needed a couple of "big hitters" like Boris and Gove but he was Brexit, I know this because I nearly voted for it.

But he's never polled well outside his base. His base is larger now but he's quite universally disliked by everyone else.

On another note it feels like the Americans despite the fact we've recently seen the shitshow of a right wing populist governement we have to ensure flirting with it again.

 

[McTallshort]

But he's never polled well outside his base. His base is larger now but he's quite universally disliked by everyone else.

On another note it feels like the Americans despite the fact we've recently seen the shitshow of a right wing populist governement we have to ensure flirting with it again.

So what? Every single anti EU clip had Farage on it. He was the face of anti EU sentiment, he was all over social media. People think the EU referendum happened in 2016, that's wrong. It had been happening for about 15 years before that when the Blair government had agreed to go full bore on open borders when the Germans, Dutch and French had decided not to. I'm not saying that was a bad thing but that was the start of Brexit

 

[ncurd]

On migration rights or wrongs of the governement its never going to be fixed. Capitalism thrives on it in terms of economic advantages and the left enjoys multiculturalism. To try to control it and nobody outside of isolationist governements with poor quality of life do is virtually impossible. This has probably been true since the height of European Colonialism and certainly been true since the end of second world war

People who see a dilution or geortage or way of life are clinging to a world that doesn't exist anymore and all likelihood never did.

 

[ncurd]

So what? Every single anti EU clip had Farage on it. He was the face of anti EU sentiment, he was all over social media. People think the EU referendum happened in 2016, that's wrong. It had been happening for about 15 years before that when the Blair government had agreed to go full bore on open borders when the Germans, Dutch and French had decided not to. I'm not saying that was a bad thing but that was the start of Brexit

Because you need 52% of the vote and if 65%(rough figure) think your a twat they aren't voting for what your selling.

I'm not trying to diminish Farage's role in Brexit or even keeping our relationship with Europe as a talking point for those 15 years. I'm just saying without Johnson it would of likely been pretty clear remain win.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Because you need 52% of the vote and if 65%(rough figure) think your a twat they aren't voting for what your selling.

I'm not trying to diminish Farage's role in Brexit or even keeping our relationship with Europe as a talking point for those 15 years. I'm just saying without Johnson it would of likely been pretty clear remain win.

Cameron played a huge role too. Sure he sided with remain in the referendum, but in the lead up to it he was constantly scapegoating the EU, posturing and undermining it. When it came to the referendum, his arguments in favour were half arsed, especially after everything he said before.

The Brexit side had people who at least appeared to have conviction, remain just seemed half arsed.

I lay Brexit more at Cameron's feet than anyone else.

 

[General Melchett]

.

Cameron played a huge role too. Sure he sided with remain in the referendum, but in the lead up to it he was constantly scapegoating the EU, posturing and undermining it. When it came to the referendum, his arguments in favour were half arsed, especially after everything he said before.

The Brexit side had people who at least appeared to have conviction, remain just seemed half arsed.

I lay Brexit more at Cameron's feet than anyone else.

Cameron is 100% responsible. He caved to the ERG to hold the referendum in the first place and arrogantly thought he'd win it in his sleep. I've heard some say that rejoining the EU would require a 66% win percentage. How the **** did he agree to 50% then in what was such a huge decision for the country. ********

Johnson isn't even a Brexiteer. He hijacked the leave campaign to further his own political ambitions, ****** up with Partygate and then ****** off and left us stuck with Brexit.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Gaza now worse than hell on earth, humanitarian chief tells BBC

The situation in Gaza surpasses "any acceptable, legal, moral, and humane standard", the ICRC tells BBC's Jeremy Bowen.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Welsh Exile]

Gaza now worse than hell on earth, humanitarian chief tells BBC

The situation in Gaza surpasses "any acceptable, legal, moral, and humane standard", the ICRC tells BBC's Jeremy Bowen.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ok, I'm going to be that guy but it's described as reliable and that could be the case but it could also be the case that it's not 100% reliable either. Definitely vital for war record/history though.

The ICRC is a reliable source of information about what is happening in Gaza. Israel does not allow international news organisations, including the BBC, to send journalists into the territory. The reporting of the more than 300 ICRC staff in Gaza, 90% of whom are Palestinians, forms a vital part of the record of the war.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

.

Cameron is 100% responsible. He caved to the ERG to hold the referendum in the first place and arrogantly thought he'd win it in his sleep. I've heard some say that rejoining the EU would require a 66% win percentage. How the **** did he agree to 50% then in what was such a huge decision for the country. ********

Johnson isn't even a Brexiteer. He hijacked the leave campaign to further his own political ambitions, ****** up with Partygate and then ****** off and left us stuck with Brexit.

Cameron and Johnson both used anti-EU sentiment for their own gain, Farage no doubt is doing the same too, but at least he has been banging that drum consistently for many years.

The extent to which the Tories showed they were happy to repeatedly **** about with the entire future and well-being of this country for their own personal ends is pretty sickening.

 

[dirty harry]

Because you need 52% of the vote and if 65%(rough figure) think your a twat they aren't voting for what your selling.

I'm not trying to diminish Farage's role in Brexit or even keeping our relationship with Europe as a talking point for those 15 years. I'm just saying without Johnson it would of likely been pretty clear remain win.

The problem with this is, Starmer won the election with 9.7 million votes, less than Corbyn who lost years earlier.

So 65% of the country may think Farage is a twat, but 10 million votes is what? 14.5% of the population. Then we start talking motivations, Farages base will certainly ly be motivated, we know few were motivated to vote Starmer, so how will he reinvigorate them?

Farage doesn't need the 65%, he just needs to convince 15 - 20%!

 

[dirty harry]

Cameron played a huge role too. Sure he sided with remain in the referendum, but in the lead up to it he was constantly scapegoating the EU, posturing and undermining it. When it came to the referendum, his arguments in favour were half arsed, especially after everything he said before.

The Brexit side had people who at least appeared to have conviction, remain just seemed half arsed.

I lay Brexit more at Cameron's feet than anyone else.

This!!!!

Cameron ******* around, politicking for his own gain, and not being smart enough to read the room is what got the foot in the door, lay the blame at that dimwit!

 

[General Melchett]

Vote Leave won because Dominic Cummings outsmarted his Remain equivalent with data analytics, campaign planning and powerful slogans like Take back control.

Boris & Farage were better campaigners than Cameron who many of the public were blaming for immigration levels and being left behind. Pretty sure Farage wasn't even part of the official Vote Leave campaign. He just ran his own Leave campaign on the side.

 

[Which Tyler]

I think it would be interesting to know how many of those that support PR. Would they feel the same with the swell of support to Reform.

I suspect most of us.
Because it's a matter of principle.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I suspect most of us.
Because it's a matter of principle.

More interesting is if Reform would go through with their pledge to introduce a PR system if somehow they took power, or if they'd resort to type like all parties and not want to change the system that put them in power.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Ok, I'm going to be that guy but it's described as reliable and that could be the case but it could also be the case that it's not 100% reliable either. Definitely vital for war record/history though.

The ICRC is a reliable source of information about what is happening in Gaza. Israel does not allow international news organisations, including the BBC, to send journalists into the territory. The reporting of the more than 300 ICRC staff in Gaza, 90% of whom are Palestinians, forms a vital part of the record of the war.

So what are you saying then? 90% reliable?Is that good enough? Or doubting that >50k Palestinians dead vs 1200 + 250 Israeli hostages? Still hell hole whichever way you look at it. Doubting the veracity of the 270 Palestinians who work for the ICRC who are telling their President how desperate the situation is and getting worse?