A Political Thread pt. 2

[McTallshort]

I'm not an expert on military history but I'm sure, even a cursory bit of research would show the Brits have covered up lots of killings of unarmed civilians and the like, same for the Americans and any other army.

Does that make it right?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Does that make it right?

Of course not but it’s on a very long list of why war is hell. It just seems there is a double standard and Isreal are held to a higher standard than other militaries that have done the exact same thing (i.e killed aid workers and covered up the deaths of many unarmed civilians and prisoners)

 

[Saintjay]

Whataboutism at it's finest. Don't remember the British army killing a load of aid works then trying to cover it up, even in its worst days.

The British Army has been killing civilians and non-combatants and covering it up from Bloody Sunday to Afghanistan by some accounts.

 

[McTallshort]

Of course not but it's on a very long list of why war is hell. It just seems there is a double standard and Isreal are held to a higher standard than other militaries that have done the exact same thing (i.e killed aid workers and covered up the deaths of many unarmed civilians and prisoners)

Absolute rubbish. Do you honestly believe that had the British, American or French army killed a number of aid workers that there wouldn't be an outcry? I'm currently listening to a podcast about the Irish war of independence and they are talking about the shootings at Croke Park which was over a hundred years ago and the British army is still rightly hammered for that and those numbers are tiny compared to the 50k Palestinians killed in the last two years.

Utter utter bullshit. The IDF is far more out of control than the British army was in Ireland and your constant attempts at deflection are ******* tedious now. The IDF in its current state and behaviour are no better than what I witnessed from the Bosnian Serbs and Croats 30 years ago other than Israel has more destructive hardware and better trained troops.

 

[McTallshort]

The British Army has been killing civilians and non-combatants and covering it up from Bloody Sunday to Afghanistan by some accounts.

Ok. I accept that. Was that the right or wrong to do?

 

[Saintjay]

Ok. I accept that. Was that the right or wrong to do?

Wrong but but I'd also say it was wrong for people to say death to the British Army as well.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Absolute rubbish. Do you honestly believe that had the British, American or French army killed a number of aid workers that there wouldn't be an outcry? I'm currently listening to a podcast about the Irish war of independence and they are talking about the shootings at Croke Park which was over a hundred years ago and the British army is still rightly hammered for that and those numbers are tiny compared to the 50k Palestinians killed in the last two years.

Utter utter bullshit. The IDF is far more out of control than the British army was in Ireland and your constant attempts at deflection are ******* tedious now. The IDF in its current state and behaviour are no better than what I witnessed from the Bosnian Serbs and Croats 30 years ago other than Israel has more destructive hardware and better trained troops.

I’m sure there would but probably nowhere near the level we’ve seen toward the IDF but that’s just a feeling.

Anyway, that wasn’t my central point. My main point was that in every war since year dot, civilians, aid workers etc etc have been killed in war (and a lot of the time covered up) The original contention was that this is easy to avoid in war. I disagreed as evidenced by the fact it’s happened in every war which must be down to a combination of both bad actors and, more commonly imo, negligence/mistakes made in fog of war.

I take it from your post that you support the chant of death to the IDF?

 

[AlRums]

Whataboutism at it's finest. Don't remember the British army killing a load of aid works then trying to cover it up, even in its worst days.

My Lai Massacre - Cover-up, Investigation, Legacy | Britannica

My Lai Massacre - Cover-up, Investigation, Legacy: In spite of reports from Vietnamese officials that a massacre had occurred, the official after-action report characterized the My Lai operation as a success. Seymour Hersh's account of “point-blank murder” at My Lai shocked the world. The...

www.britannica.com

It's not like any army tries a cover up

 

[McTallshort]

Wrong but but I'd also say it was wrong for people to say death to the British Army as well.

Go to Celtic park. Happens every week

 

[McTallshort]

My Lai Massacre - Cover-up, Investigation, Legacy | Britannica

My Lai Massacre - Cover-up, Investigation, Legacy: In spite of reports from Vietnamese officials that a massacre had occurred, the official after-action report characterized the My Lai operation as a success. Seymour Hersh's account of “point-blank murder” at My Lai shocked the world. The...

www.britannica.com

It's not like any army tries a cover up

Don't remember the British army serving in Vietnam

 

[Welsh Exile]

Also, I'd just add, how do we know about the cover ups? That's right, the system of government and legal systems in democracies that hold people to account. Obviously there's flaws but we only know about these things (admittedly too late a lot of the time) because it goes against what we stand for. I don't think Israelis or IDF stand for genocide and I hope that will be born out by anyone that has committed war crimes are prosecuted.

 

[McTallshort]

I take it from your post that you support the chant of death to the IDF?

When did I say that?

 

[Welsh Exile]

When did I say that?

You didn't but again, seeing as only 1 person has responded to my question, it seems so strange to me by the way you talk about Isreal and the IDF being the most evil army on the planet (or at last since Bosnia), that you wouldn't automatically support the chant. I know I would if I thought it was a genocide and the IDF as a whole are targeting aid workers and babies and what not.

 

[McTallshort]

You didn't but again, seeing as only 1 person has responded to my question, it seems so strange to me by the way you talk about Isreal and the IDF being the most evil army on the planet (or at last since Bosnia), that you wouldn't automatically support the chant. I know I would if I thought it was a genocide and the IDF as a whole are targeting aid workers and babies and what not.

No the Russians are arguably worse and their proxies in Africa are definitely worse but Israel is a liberal democracy and absolutely should be held to a high standard

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wrong but but I'd also say it was wrong for people to say death to the British Army as well.

Because no one in their right mind would suggest the Brits, Americans or French had genocidal intent in Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc but it's second nature for Isreal it would seem.

 

[McTallshort]

Because no one in their right mind would suggest the Brits, Americans or French had genocidal intent in Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc but it's second nature for Isreal it would seem.

Missed the British and French settlers in Helmand

 

[Welsh Exile]

No the Russians are arguably worse and their proxies in Africa are definitely worse but Israel is a liberal democracy and absolutely should be held to a high standard

Why should liberal democracies be held to a higher standard than say Iran or a dictatorship?

 

[Saintjay]

Go to Celtic park. Happens every week

True and in various clubs and pubs around the Falls, Ballymurphy area etc in Belfast no doubt.

Maybe they've a point even i don't agree with it.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Missed the British and French settlers in Helmand

What’s that got to do with anything?

 

[McTallshort]

What's that got to do with anything?

You talked about genocidal intent