USA news & politics

[ChicagoKid]

Why wouldn't you point out the flaws in an extremely flawed human being who exploits people's grievances (and has never spent a day in his life knowing what struggling is just like Trump) and is in a position of power?

You’re right. Reelect another Tory or Labour leader with a nice story or inspirational slogan.

By the time Keir leaves, you will have 20 years — an entire generation — where basically everything got worse in your country.

Ana Kasparian from the Young Turks said on an interview she is open to new ideas because basically since 9/11, almost everything has gotten worse in America.

And she is dead right. I initially recoiled and wanted to defend my country. But she’s right.

You are in the same boat, if not worse.

Fortunately you had a supernatural figure in Thatcher to save you after decades of mismanagement. I hope you find someone soon like her.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Joe Biden - "continues to use the power of the presidency to unleash racist attacks on the people he serves… This hate has no place in our country."

Again not what you claimed, nothing. To do with his supporters.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Im not, but you make a great point, he was being lined up for a prosecution... before being vindicated by the public for what they viewed as weaponisation of the DOJ.

Thats a statement. He didnt avoid prosecution, he was mandated not to be prosecuted by the public.

Biden survived it by being a nice old man not with his faculties to justify prosecution.

But let's stay on topic, why after all these controversies did Trump win, and continually gain more votes and increase in popularity?

That is an extremely ridiculous take on it. His popularity has zero relevance to whether he is a criminal. None. Him getting into office didn't prove the previous prosecutions were little more than a witch hunt. Are you even aware of the grounds under which the prosecutions were ended? I'll give you a clue, not a single one relied on refuting the evidence. Not one.

Do you want to claim that Trump escaping prosecution makes those prosecutions no different to for example the Clinton Obama pedo pizza claim?

The reason Trump has won is because of rising nationalism, years of propaganda, and the USA embracing a belligerent attitude to various issues.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Harry, do you believe in tribalism or rather, do you think tribalism plays a significant part in politics and even larger society as a whole?

 

[Welsh Exile]

You're right. Reelect another Tory or Labour leader with a nice story or inspirational slogan.

By the time Keir leaves, you will have 20 years — an entire generation — where basically everything got worse in your country.

Ana Kasparian from the Young Turks said on an interview she is open to new ideas because basically since 9/11, almost everything has gotten worse in America.

And she is dead right. I initially recoiled and wanted to defend my country. But she's right.

You are in the same boat, if not worse.

Fortunately you had a supernatural figure in Thatcher to save you after decades of mismanagement. I hope you find someone soon like her.

Yeah, worrying times for a lot of countries for sure. Which is why we should stick together and stick to our values rather than descending into chaos much to the pleasure of countries like Russia and China

 

[dirty harry]

Post the quotes.

Kamala Harris - on responding is Trump racist"When you talk about him calling African countries s‑hole countries… I don't think you can reach any other conclusion […] I do, yes. Yes. Yes."

Again not what you claimed, nothing. To do with his supporters.

Mate come on, my point has been consistent throughout, the constant calling Trump AND his supporters racist and other names, the constant attack on anything MAGA, and the exaggeration and mistriths, of every little thing he does, and every action taken on behalf of his policies has all contributed to a 1st and 2nd term.

Now there are nuances and other factors, but denial of what? a decade of 'he is the devil, and anything he does, anyone who supports him, or even anyone who doesnt denounce him in the appropriate vitriolic way (case study myself) is nothing short of naziism' has done nothing but emboldened and grow his popularity, to the point where he is basically untouchable today...

Ive said it 100 times, Sanders beats Trump, for no other reason that the campaign year wouldnt have offered Sanders with total establishment support, and derision of the American people (not to mention Clinton being an absolutely horrible candidate).

 

[Welsh Exile]

Kamala Harris - on responding is Trump racist"When you talk about him calling African countries s‑hole countries… I don't think you can reach any other conclusion […] I do, yes. Yes. Yes."


Mate come on, my point has been consistent throughout, the constant calling Trump AND his supporters racist and other names, the constant attack on anything MAGA, and the exaggeration and mistriths, of every little thing he does, and every action taken on behalf of his policies has all contributed to a 1st and 2nd term.

Now there are nuances and other factors, but denial of what? a decade of 'he is the devil, and anything he does, anyone who supports him, or even anyone who doesnt denounce him in the appropriate vitriolic way (case study myself) is nothing short of naziism' has done nothing but emboldened and grow his popularity, to the point where he is basically untouchable today...

Ive said it 100 times, Sanders beats Trump, for no other reason that the campaign year wouldnt have offered Sanders with total establishment support, and derision of the American people (not to mention Clinton being an absolutely horrible candidate).

You're not providing quotes to support your claims. Plus you're ignoring whether there is even any truth to these claims, I mean, do you think that should be taken into consideration at all?

 

[ncurd]

Remember when Harry claimed he wasn't a Trump zealot?

 

[dirty harry]

That is an extremely ridiculous take on it. His popularity has zero relevance to whether he is a criminal. None. Him getting into office didn't prove the previous prosecutions were little more than a witch hunt. Are you even aware of the grounds under which the prosecutions were ended? I'll give you a clue, not a single one relied on refuting the evidence. Not one.

Do you want to claim that Trump escaping prosecution makes those prosecutions no different to for example the Clinton Obama pedo pizza claim?

The reason Trump has won is because of rising nationalism, years of propaganda, and the USA embracing a belligerent attitude to various issues.

You've missed my point, if dont know whether he would be criminalised because it didnt happen, neither do you know, despite your want for it... but the American people didnt want him criminalised because *checks previous comment* they VIEWED it as weaponisation of the DOJ.

That perception is a combination of Trumps team managing the narrative really well, and Democrats acting irrationally vitriolic, literally calling him Adolph and foaming at the mouth, while borderline weaponising the DOJ... let's be honest.

Was there rising nationalism in 2015, arguably but it was negligible, also there was 0 propoganda for Trump until then. One MAGA supporter explained that Trump broke thebsystem by exposing the corruption, the will for corruption exposure was rife 2015, and well Trump played on that well.

The entire media class has pumped anti Trump messaging since day 1, even now they lie about little girls crying in sherrif cars as ICE retainment, and still find themselves on the wrong side of public opinion on things like immigration.

 

[Welsh Exile]

That perception is a combination of Trumps team managing the narrative really well, and Democrats acting irrationally vitriolic, literally calling him Adolph and foaming at the mouth, while borderline weaponising the DOJ... let's be honest.

here we go, give me a split on their importance (roughly speaking)

 

[dirty harry]

You're not providing quotes to support your claims. Plus you're ignoring whether there is even any truth to these claims, I mean, do you think that should be taken into consideration at all?

Absolutely not. This is my whole point, Trump has absolutely said racist things, let's be honest by todays standards 90% of the west has at some point, but those calling him out as racist, even when they are 100% accurate are drowned out in a sea of racist claims with no basis.

The fake hysteria at everything he does, has become background noise, but most importantly, it became a running joke for everyone non democrat. There are a loud minority in the media, Hollywood, and online who keep reiterating this strategy, with absolutely no result.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Yo @dirty harry, don’t respond to @Ragey Erasmus.

I blocked him months ago because it’s very clear he 1.) Does not know the first thing about America. 2.) Is too stupid to realize he doesn’t understand America.

At least @Welsh Exile has a basic understanding of America and how Americans think.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Absolutely not. This is my whole point, Trump has absolutely said racist things, let's be honest by todays standards 90% of the west has at some point, but those calling him out as racist, even when they are 100% accurate are drowned out in a sea of racist claims with no basis.

The fake hysteria at everything he does, has become background noise, but most importantly, it became a running joke for everyone non democrat. There are a loud minority in the media, Hollywood, and online who keep reiterating this strategy, with absolutely no result.

Wait a minute, you say he’s said racist things and you’re saying people calling him out on that is fake hysteria? Maybe I’ve misunderstood.

I do t know why you just don’t say the clearly obvious take, sure, there are some strategic things the dems did that didn’t help but we’re clearly dealing with a multi faceted set of reasons as to why Trump won office.

 

[dirty harry]

here we go, give me a split on their importance (roughly speaking)

It has to be only 51/49 in favour of stupid democrat actions...

If they didnt start the strategy, Trump's team would have had to attack them in the same way Republicans attacked Obama... and how did that work out for the Republicans?

Day 1, Clinton and the media who absolutely bent the knee to her, and worse more, her tactics, went on a maniacal rampage of Trumps history, and every word he said was distorted in the most un truthful way they could imagine. None of that was needed, when your enemy is ******* up, sit back and let him call Mexicans rapists, grabbing women by the pussy, closing immigration to Muslims etc... the faux hysteria, and un truthful story telling of these events gave Trump a platform and victimised him to the American people.

He said a famous and frankly genius line that was devastatingly effective 'They're not coming for me, theyre coming for you, im just standing in the way'. That was incredible way to frame it.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Wait a minute, you say he's said racist things and you're saying people calling him out on that is fake hysteria? Maybe I've misunderstood.

I do t know why you just don't say the clearly obvious take, sure, there are some strategic things the dems did that didn't help but we're clearly dealing with a multi faceted set of reasons as to why Trump won office.

I try to not say racist things but sometimes I relapse in traffic…

 

[dirty harry]

Wait a minute, you say he's said racist things and you're saying people calling him out on that is fake hysteria? Maybe I've misunderstood.

I do t know why you just don't say the clearly obvious take, sure, there are some strategic things the dems did that didn't help but we're clearly dealing with a multi faceted set of reasons as to why Trump won office.

I think where we differ, is you think what the Democrats (or Republicans) mean and live by what they say, and by being disingenuously hysterical by racist comments, you think its real offence. I think they are all scumbags who will do and say whatever they can to get elected and thus rich and powerful, and when Trump says racist things they needlessly exaggerate it into what was not said, to an almost comedic standard that the American public saw and didnt like.

 

[Welsh Exile]

It has to be only 51/49 in favour of stupid democrat actions...

If they didnt start the strategy, Trump's team would have had to attack them in the same way Republicans attacked Obama... and how did that work out for the Republicans?

Day 1, Clinton and the media who absolutely bent the knee to her, and worse more, her tactics, went on a maniacal rampage of Trumps history, and every word he said was distorted in the most un truthful way they could imagine. None of that was needed, when your enemy is ******* up, sit back and let him call Mexicans rapists, grabbing women by the pussy, closing immigration to Muslims etc... the faux hysteria, and un truthful story telling of these events gave Trump a platform and victimised him to the American people.

He said a famous and frankly genius line that was devastatingly effective 'They're not coming for me, theyre coming for you, im just standing in the way'. That was incredible way to frame it.

We're getting somewhere now. So you've shifted from saying he won because everyone called him mean words and fake hysteria etc etc to now admitting that there are 2 reasons which you give almost equal weight to. How about the economy, did that play a factor? What about the right wing media, did that have any effect at all (even like a 5% effect)

 

[dirty harry]

I try to not say racist things but sometimes I relapse in traffic…

Thats disgusting...

What is tend to do when I have to get it out... I write it down.

 

[dirty harry]

We're getting somewhere now. So you've shifted from saying he won because everyone called him mean words and fake hysteria etc etc to now admitting that there are 2 reasons which you give almost equal weight to. How about the economy, did that play a factor? What about the right wing media, did that have any effect at all (even like a 5% effect)

No your confused, probably by my wording.

I never said the only reason he won was establishment lies, I said its a large portion of his popularity.

The 51/49 was faux hysteria/ Trump managing the Faux hysteria

 

[Welsh Exile]

No your confused, probably by my wording.

I never said the only reason he won was establishment lies, I said its a large portion of his popularity.

The 51/49 was faux hysteria/ Trump managing the Faux hysteria

Trump managing the narrative you said which I agree was important.

Look, if you said something like "I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons as to why Trump won, ranging from poor economic outcomes for people who felt they've been left behind, a growing sense amongst people that the establishment has abandoned them, the media, Trumps ability to manage and control a narrative, Trumps own personal charisma and his engagement with social media and poor democratic strategy decisions as well as candidates" then I could 100% get on board with that but your framing it in a way that while you accept are are lots of reasons they're minimal and really it comes down to people calling Trump bad names.