A Political Thread pt. 2

[McTallshort]

Anti-Islamic US biker gang members run security at deadly Gaza aid sites

BBC identifies members of Infidels MC gang hired as armed security at US and Israel-backed aid sites.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Welsh Exile]

Definitely disagree with number 4. Just because Jewish people were suffered an attempted genocide at the hands of the Nazis, does not make Israel as a country immune to criticism or comparison if they behave in the same way, which they are extremely close to doing.

On the first point, we accept Israel and the Jewish people have a right to a homeland, so why don't the Palestinians have the same right?

Why am I not surprised you disagree with number 4. You're either extremely ignorant of the history of the Nazis or something more concerning.

 

[Reiser99]

What else should they do? Errrrr, maybe not be jihadists. Release the hostages at the very least. Maybe not do October 7th which isn't legitimate resistance. Maybe not start a war with the aim of getting as many of your own people killed as possible and then plastering it on social media to exert international pressure. These things would be a good start.

Depends who you believe re ceasefire deals. I doubt Hamas have been acting in good faith but to be fair I also doubt this, albeit less so, with the Israeli's.

Let me ask you a rhetorical question, say Hamas were fighting Iran, or Syria, or insert any country in the region, do you think they hide under and amongst civilians, operate out of hospitals and schools etc etc?

The answer is obviously no. Why? Because those countries wouldn't give a **** about killing a load of civilians to kill Hamas. Using human shields would not be an effective strategy. Humans shields are an effecting strategy, however, when you're fighting an enemy who don't actually want to kill civilians. There should be a little clue for you there. They use our own western values against us.

But you go back to thinking Israel are the Nazis and like how other people on here disgustingly distort and twist history to make Jews seem like Nazis by comparing October 7th the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

Glad to see you think Israel hold no responsibility for their actions and the scale of their retaliation.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Glad to see you think Israel hold no responsibility for their actions and the scale of their retaliation.

I do believe they hold responsibility, yes. And if I was on a forum with a load of deranged Zionists and not you deranged lot I would be having a go at all their BS. As it stands I’m stuck with you lot until some uber Zionist comes along that I can have a go at.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Do you know my favourite bit about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, you know that bit when the Nazis said to the Jews "release the hostages and lay down your weapons and we'll let you go"

Oh yeah, that never happened. They just liquidated the ghetto.

Do you know what my other favourite bit about the Warsaw Gjetto uprising was. You know that bit when the Jews broke out of the Ghetto and went to the nearest German occupied town and butchered a load of civilians and ran back with a few hundred hostages. Oh yeah, that never happened either.

My other favourite bit about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising is the amount of targeting of civilians then Jews did, oh yeah, sorry, silly me, only a dozen or so Nazi soldiers were killed, no civilians, and then the Jews all got murdered.

 

[ncurd]

I was at Aucshwitz-Birkenau yesterday. Its a really effecting place well worth making the effort to go even if its bloody hard.

At Birkenau it was pretty hard seeing Israeli's drabbed in the flag of Israel along the railroad path up to the gas chambers. Whilst I struggle with term genocide with what's happening in Palestine you almost wanted to scream this the path your country is heading down. Although you do remind yourself its their government not the indivduals.

 

[dirty harry]

Why am I not surprised you disagree with number 4. You're either extremely ignorant of the history of the Nazis or something more concerning.

To be fair, id disagree with that as well. If Netinyahu implements camps in south Gaza and starts enacting Nazi strategy, then its not anti semitism to call it such.

 

[Welsh Exile]

To be fair, id disagree with that as well. If Netinyahu implements camps in south Gaza and starts enacting Nazi strategy, then its not anti semitism to call it such.

And if they start building gas chambers and we see Palestinian civilians being marched into them in their tens of thousands then I will say that comparison is apt. Until then though…..

This is why I find the terminology of apartheid, open air prison, concentration camp, racist supremacists, etc etc a bit worrying.

When people say concentration camp they think Auswitz (which technically was a death camp and not a concentration camp a la the Brits in the boer war - which were still horrendous) this terminology obviously means less educated people on the matter will immediately start drawing comparisons with the Nazis. Which, I’m sure you’re aware, Jews don’t like very much. But you know, who cares what they think, right? We already know Zionism in and of itself is a disgusting Nazi/Racist/settler colonial ideology.

Should we start calling whatever places we hold asylum seekers or people coming over on boats in concentration camps? I would say not as I’m sure you’d agree but why not?

 

[Reiser99]

Do you know my favourite bit about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, you know that bit when the Nazis said to the Jews "release the hostages and lay down your weapons and we'll let you go"

Oh yeah, that never happened. They just liquidated the ghetto.

Do you know what my other favourite bit about the Warsaw Gjetto uprising was. You know that bit when the Jews broke out of the Ghetto and went to the nearest German occupied town and butchered a load of civilians and ran back with a few hundred hostages. Oh yeah, that never happened either.

My other favourite bit about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising is the amount of targeting of civilians then Jews did, oh yeah, sorry, silly me, only a dozen or so Nazi soldiers were killed, no civilians, and then the Jews all got murdered.

Yep, it's not identical so no comparisons can be drawn. Besides, like so often you miss the point. It's not about whether Israel are acting like Nazi Germany, it's that they want to be completely immune from any future comparison regardless of their actions.

Seeing as you love hypotheticals, let's say they did make Rafah a ghetto and then destroyed in an identical way. Would you at that point say they are acting like the Nazis or would you still believe any comparison is antisemitic?

 

[Welsh Exile]

I was at Aucshwitz-Birkenau yesterday. Its a really effecting place well worth making the effort to go even if its bloody hard.

At Birkenau it was pretty hard seeing Israeli's drabbed in the flag of Israel along the railroad path up to the gas chambers. Whilst I struggle with term genocide with what's happening in Palestine you almost wanted to scream this the path your country is heading down. Although you do remind yourself its their government not the indivduals.

It’s pretty hard seeing a Jew with an Israeli flag. Really? That was your main takeaway. Glad you didn’t say anything. Saw a video of some unhinged pro Palestinian having a go at a Jew at Auschwitz and it wasn’t a good look.

 

[Reiser99]

And if they start building gas chambers and we see Palestinian civilians being marched into them in their tens of thousands then I will say that comparison is apt. Until then though…..

So you agree then, Israel having complete immunity from being compared to the Nazis is wrong.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yep, it's not identical so no comparisons can be drawn. Besides, like so often you miss the point. It's not about whether Israel are acting like Nazi Germany, it's that they want to be completely immune from any future comparison regardless of their actions.

Seeing as you love hypotheticals, let's say they did make Rafah a ghetto and then destroyed in an identical way. Would you at that point say they are acting like the Nazis or would you still believe any comparison is antisemitic?

It's not that they're not identical it's that they're not even in the same ******* universe. The fact you think they are is extremely worrying.

If they did that then I would say the comparison is more apt but considering the Nazis wiped out half the population of Jews worldwide not so long ago they can be a bit tetchy about the whole Nazi thing so let's give them benefit of the doubt until then shall we and not call them Nazis and conversely not compare Hamas to the Jews in Nazi Germany. It's gross.

 

[Welsh Exile]

So you agree then, Israel having complete immunity from being compared to the Nazis is wrong.

Well no one should have complete immunity from anything, clearly.

 

[Welsh Exile]

So you agree then, Israel having complete immunity from being compared to the Nazis is wrong.

In case your missed it, the definition never said "Total immunity from comparing Israel to Nazis" it said

• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

So you and others are fighting a strawman there.

 

[Reiser99]

Well no one should have complete immunity from anything, clearly.

And yet it is part of the definition of antisemitism. I know you lean more towards Israel, but my point is they have done a wonderful job of avoiding criticism by making any kind of criticism antisemitic. This is dangerous and especially when the only country they listen to even remotely won't hold them to account gives them carte blanche to do what they want. Yes, hypothetically Hamas could do worse if given the opportunity, but Israel have the power now and they need to be the ones called out.

 

[Welsh Exile]

And yet it is part of the definition of antisemitism. I know you lean more towards Israel, but my point is they have done a wonderful job of avoiding criticism by making any kind of criticism antisemitic. This is dangerous and especially when the only country they listen to even remotely won't hold them to account gives them carte blanche to do what they want. Yes, hypothetically Hamas could do worse if given the opportunity, but Israel have the power now and they need to be the ones called out.

The definition does not say that.

 

[Reiser99]

In case your missed it, the definition never said "Total immunity from comparing Israel to Nazis" it said

• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

So you and others are fighting a strawman there.

Contemporary means what? Only current policies that exist now? Any current Israeli policy at any point because contemporary will always be at the current point in time, even in the future? Do we have to wait 50-100 years to criticise past Israeli acts?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Contemporary means what? Only current policies that exist now? Any current Israeli policy at any point because contemporary will always be at the current point in time, even in the future? Do we have to wait 50-100 years to criticise past Israeli acts?

What are you going on about. It's pretty obvious what it means. It just means stop being ignorant and saying Israel are like the Nazis when they're nothing like them.

If in the future they are then fine but that's not what contemporary means.

What's worse is the people on this thread comparing the Jews in WW2 to Hamas. People should be ashamed of themselves but racists tend to be pretty proud of themselves these days.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Are you not bored of saying the exact same things back and forth for the last 11 months

 

[Welsh Exile]

Are you not bored of saying the exact same things back and forth for the last 11 months

A little bit but I believe racism and ignorance need to be challenged.

As I've said before people have tried to hound Harry out of here, for what exactly? Being a troll or some other BS. ******* tumble weed when left wing people start being racist though.