A Political Thread pt. 2

[AlRums]

Didn't realise the Governent haven't concluded Israel is committing genocide. Leaving up to international courts to decide.

The US and Israel don't recognise intl courts so won't be bothered.

In fact israel have accused every country who have complained to the intl courts, Ireland and SA for example of anti-Semitism.

 

[Seeker]

Here we go again. Fvcking Putin!

 

[AlRums]

Saudi Arabia condemns ‘criminal’ Israeli strike on Qatari soil

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Reiser99]

Surely the Hamas people would have been aware of the Tel Aviv attack and how this would impact negotiations. The same as Israel and there actions.

Neither want peace by the looks of it.

I agree and I've already said as much. That goes both ways though, doesn't it.

And Hamas killing 6 jews in Tel Aviv yesterday. Doesn't scream peace either tbh

I'm not defending Hamas killing 6 Jews, especially as they were civilians not military.

My question is though is when it comes to peace, what else should Palestine and Hamas do at this point? Quietly roll over and let Israel completely **** them? They had a ceasefire agreed and Israel were the ones that broke it. Israel are the ones committed to putting all Palestinians in Gaza into one ghetto camp. Israel are the ones continuing to destroy infrastructure, hospitals and killing civilians.

Israel, especially its leaders, do not want peace, so what else should the people of Gaza, Palestinians in general and Hamas do at this point, when essentially facing annihilation?

 

[dirty harry]

And the relevance of that is?

Its an interesting observation. I think ive only ever seen you condemn Hamas and October the 7th in passing while criticising Isreal.

Maybe im perceiving it wrong, maybe you have outright criticised Hamas, Iran, and October 7th without having to caveat it?

 

[dirty harry]

I'm not defending Hamas killing 6 Jews, especially as they were civilians not military.

My question is though is when it comes to peace, what else should Palestine and Hamas do at this point? Quietly roll over and let Israel completely **** them? They had a ceasefire agreed and Israel were the ones that broke it. Israel are the ones committed to putting all Palestinians in Gaza into one ghetto camp. Israel are the ones continuing to destroy infrastructure, hospitals and killing civilians.

Israel, especially its leaders, do not want peace, so what else should the people of Gaza, Palestinians in general and Hamas do at this point, when essentially facing annihilation?

Id start with releasing the hostages personally, and then when negotiating for ceasefire not demand the total capitulation of the IDF, and i maybe wouldnt use terms like 'a million red lines'.

But then I dont call for the Islamic army to come and wipe Isreal off the map...

You seem to be empathising with Hamas, while ignoring their stance of destroying isreal fully. Lets not pretend Hamas are victims, or even an entity alongside the Palestinian people. Hamas brought this on the poor people, they lay infrastructure below and among the people, they have used the people as a sheild at every opportunity, they instigated this entire ordeal in their own actions, and they now have to accept responsibility for what they have caused.

Now I'll condemn Isreals actions on a case to case basis, or even strategically, plus Netinyahu etc, but we all agree Isreal had to act.

Even to ask the question what more can Hamas do, seems suspiciously one sided to me, there are plenty of steps they could have and can take, none of which they will. At this point there are 2 entities, seemingly hell bent on destroying the other...

Its just 1 of them have the capability of inflicting massive damage, the others media campaign to insight an Islamic army and major support from around the world has fallen on the types of ears who type 'thoughts and prayers' on Facebook.

After this is all done, when or if it concludes there will be a reckoning on Isreals side and some (maybe) will be held accountable, but for now the world watches the atrocities inflicted on a Gazan population by one side, while their own supposed representatives does nothing to quell the violence.

 

[dirty harry]

As usual you didn't read the Al-Jazeera link I posted which gave you the information you asked for.

As usual I did not read a link you posted thats right, you have proved unreliable in your posting, a pro Hamas, Qatari publication, reporting on a Qatari strike is akin to regurgitating Hamas reports on the war lol.

Plus I just assumed it was another Huffpost or daily beast link lolbut as I edited, I found some sources, all good.

 

[Vaquer]

I'm pro-Israel, but Netanyahu (in his sixth term) does a lot of things that I don't agree with. I think he should step down, but we all know that's not going to happen. From the polls that I've seen a lot of Israeli's feel the same way. But they realize that they're most likely stuck with him until his terms ends. I've been to Israel as a tourist, but I definitely wouldn't want to live there.

Prime Minister on and off 29 years the vaunted Israeli democracy. "Maybe it's not as bad as this sounds" remember there's probably a celebrity you like who died at 27.

 

[McTallshort]

So you think you can never justify striking a sovereign nation? It's wrong in itself?

In this instance no it's not justified. It's a dangerous escalation.

 

[McTallshort]

Talking of very dangerous escalations

Poland shoots down Russian drones after 'unprecedented airspace violation'

A statement from the Polish armed forces says the country's airspace was "repeatedly violated by drone-type objects

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[dirty harry]

In this instance no it's not justified. It's a dangerous escalation.

What kind of escalation are you expecting?

Genuine question, outside of gulf states maybe cutting ties, the usual suspects like Iran might step up their campaign against isreal, but let's be honest theyre already semi neutralised.

Would Turkey have the chops to become involved with a military base there? Would Qatar react with 10k American troops in Al Udeid, and US backing of both?

Would the Islamic army become mobilised?

Maybe im a bit ignorant of the politics and current tensions in the middle east, is there a bigger threat?

 

[Seeker]

My Gran visited various countries and said the way she was treated in Israel was the worst by a country mile.

They gave me a hard time when I went through customs in Tel Aviv. So I reminded them that if my country (the USA) and the UK didn't $upport them they wouldn't even be around. When I mentioned that the woman behind the glass lost her sassy attitude. And I noticed the people in general aren't the friendliest I've ever met. And then I reminded myself that they've been persecuted for a very long time so they probably have deep rooted insecurities and I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I try to think big picture especially when I'm traveling overseas. I'd hate to be locked up abroad and have to call the American embassy for help. Oops!

 

[dirty harry]

Gaza aid flotilla carrying Greta Thunberg reports second drone attack in 24 hours

Global Sumud Flotilla says no passengers or crew harmed by alleged incendiary device dropped on boat in Tunisian port

www.theguardian.com

Fire breaks out after ‘drone strike’ on Gaza-bound flotilla carrying Greta Thunberg

Eyewitness says the explosion happened ‘right next’ to the boat’s diesel tank

www.independent.co.uk

Jesus, multiple drone strikes on Gretas floatilla. Organisers are blaming Isreal, would Isreal drone strike civilian aid boats in Tunisian waters, under a Portugeuse flag?

 

[McTallshort]

Don't see why they wouldn't.

 

[General Melchett]

Gaza aid flotilla carrying Greta Thunberg reports second drone attack in 24 hours

Global Sumud Flotilla says no passengers or crew harmed by alleged incendiary device dropped on boat in Tunisian port

www.theguardian.com

Fire breaks out after ‘drone strike’ on Gaza-bound flotilla carrying Greta Thunberg

Eyewitness says the explosion happened ‘right next’ to the boat’s diesel tank

www.independent.co.uk

Jesus, multiple drone strikes on Gretas floatilla. Organisers are blaming Isreal, would Isreal drone strike civilian aid boats in Tunisian waters, under a Portugeuse flag?

Greta is living rent free in your head Harold.

 

[Reiser99]

From your article

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

I'm getting Deja vu.

Definitely disagree with number 4. Just because Jewish people were suffered an attempted genocide at the hands of the Nazis, does not make Israel as a country immune to criticism or comparison if they behave in the same way, which they are extremely close to doing.

On the first point, we accept Israel and the Jewish people have a right to a homeland, so why don't the Palestinians have the same right?

 

[dirty harry]

Greta is living rent free in your head Harold.

I mean if Isreal are trying to drone strike her, thats a whole different ball game. Im suddenly on her side...

Apparently at least 10 eye witnesses and a live stream caught the drone hovering.

EDIT: Oh wait, hang on there are reports co.ing out. First drone strike is reportedly a cigerette amongst life jackets fire, and 2nd drone strike was a flair set off by someone on the boat?

Im confused now, it may have been a strike, it may be a hoax, well have to wait for more info

 

[Welsh Exile]

Of what?

Actually the claim of Jews killing jesus is debatable

The Sanhedrin trial of Jesus is very well chronicled in the new testament and the Gospels. That said it's not characterizing Israel or Israelis.

Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

If you're trying to take a dig at me I haven't crossed any of those lines, especially the double standards one.

Israel have delayed, stopped aid for many months. I would hold any country to account for that even my own.

No dig personally just a feeling I have when I read through this thread on this issue.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm not defending Hamas killing 6 Jews, especially as they were civilians not military.

My question is though is when it comes to peace, what else should Palestine and Hamas do at this point? Quietly roll over and let Israel completely **** them? They had a ceasefire agreed and Israel were the ones that broke it. Israel are the ones committed to putting all Palestinians in Gaza into one ghetto camp. Israel are the ones continuing to destroy infrastructure, hospitals and killing civilians.

Israel, especially its leaders, do not want peace, so what else should the people of Gaza, Palestinians in general and Hamas do at this point, when essentially facing annihilation?

What else should they do? Errrrr, maybe not be jihadists. Release the hostages at the very least. Maybe not do October 7th which isn’t legitimate resistance. Maybe not start a war with the aim of getting as many of your own people killed as possible and then plastering it on social media to exert international pressure. These things would be a good start.

Depends who you believe re ceasefire deals. I doubt Hamas have been acting in good faith but to be fair I also doubt this, albeit less so, with the Israeli’s.

Let me ask you a rhetorical question, say Hamas were fighting Iran, or Syria, or insert any country in the region, do you think they hide under and amongst civilians, operate out of hospitals and schools etc etc?

The answer is obviously no. Why? Because those countries wouldn’t give a **** about killing a load of civilians to kill Hamas. Using human shields would not be an effective strategy. Humans shields are an effecting strategy, however, when you’re fighting an enemy who don’t actually want to kill civilians. There should be a little clue for you there. They use our own western values against us.

But you go back to thinking Israel are the Nazis and like how other people on here disgustingly distort and twist history to make Jews seem like Nazis by comparing October 7th the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

 

[Welsh Exile]

In this instance no it's not justified. It's a dangerous escalation.

Thanks for the answer. It wasn’t a gotcha. I was genuinely curious to see if you would ever think it’s justified. I agree sometimes it is but I’m not sure if it is in this instance so you could be right.