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I agree with a lot of this (especially turning off social media) but I just don’t see this “every aspect of masculinity being attacked” but I can see why you do given your experience. It’s like the jaded police officer who has a warped view of society coz all they deal with are the dregs of society. I think the content and the platforms are the problem. The problem is, much like women’s right, the platform problem is not going away and in my view we are better placed tackling bad ideas when we can but also trying to limit, where necessary, these platforms promoting harmful content.

The issue is, the bad ideas are the ones that get promoted and go viral, Bonny Blue knitting a blanket isnt interesting, her aiming for 1500 men in 24 hours is!

Regulate the platforms, change how content is pushed and becomes popular, and the bad ideas and extremes vanish overnight, well they dont vanish but they arent projected to millions of people evry minute.

Oh im jaded lol, your bang on, and im super sentive to some of these issues (including specific issues with girls and young women), but the stats are grim reading, most aspects of society boys and young men are failing, and the gap between them and girls are growing (except incarceration, that has stayed steady at 95% or so lol).

But society seems to try to be convincing us masculinity is bad, im happy to be proved wrong if you could sign post me to areas where society promotes masculinity...
 
The issue is, the bad ideas are the ones that get promoted and go viral, Bonny Blue knitting a blanket isnt interesting, her aiming for 1500 men in 24 hours is!

Regulate the platforms, change how content is pushed and becomes popular, and the bad ideas and extremes vanish overnight, well they dont vanish but they arent projected to millions of people evry minute.

Oh im jaded lol, your bang on, and im super sentive to some of these issues (including specific issues with girls and young women), but the stats are grim reading, most aspects of society boys and young men are failing, and the gap between them and girls are growing (except incarceration, that has stayed steady at 95% or so lol).

But society seems to try to be convincing us masculinity is bad, im happy to be proved wrong if you could sign post me to areas where society promotes masculinity...
Well, we are on a rugby forum. The women’s game has made strides but it’s still a mainly male sport where it’s all about toughness and strength.

Really society is constantly evolving and changing as it has always done. Notions of masculinity and femininity have always changed and we see it now. Pre Christianity women had the right to divorce men and own property in some Celtic cultures for example. Then that changed and now we’re seeing some women adopt more traditional masculine traits like “providing” and “protection”

There are examples like the Princes trust that teach men to develop leadership and resilience (traditional masculine traits) combat sports like MMA and boxing generally teach discipline without being violent or aggressive. There’s also, rightly so, a whole host of charities that focus on men’s mental health that will show young men that being vunerable is ok sometimes and that being masculine isn’t just about being tough and carrying on. One of the saddest things I found in the doc (and whether these guys are paid or not makes no difference to me) but it was when one of these guys was talking abint how he was homeless living in his car but a big part of these guys world view is that depression isn’t real. He then said his brother died and Louis asked him how and he said he killed himeself. But he was adamant depression isn’t real. That is toxic.

Historically, for the last few centuries at least, feminine traits kinda sucked and men had all the good ones. Since the 20tj century with the emergence of women’s rights we’ve seen a lot of women looking at masculine traits and thinking, you know what, I’ll have some of that. Likewise with men, we can look at more traditionally feminne traits like kindness and child rearing and adopt some of these as well. I’m sure when the zombie apocalypse happens it’s will change again.
 
Well, we are on a rugby forum. The women’s game has made strides but it’s still a mainly male sport where it’s all about toughness and strength.

Really society is constantly evolving and changing as it has always done. Notions of masculinity and femininity have always changed and we see it now. Pre Christianity women had the right to divorce men and own property in some Celtic cultures for example. Then that changed and now we’re seeing some women adopt more traditional masculine traits like “providing” and “protection”

There are examples like the Princes trust that teach men to develop leadership and resilience (traditional masculine traits) combat sports like MMA and boxing generally teach discipline without being violent or aggressive. There’s also, rightly so, a whole host of charities that focus on men’s mental health that will show young men that being vunerable is ok sometimes and that being masculine isn’t just about being tough and carrying on. One of the saddest things I found in the doc (and whether these guys are paid or not makes no difference to me) but it was when one of these guys was talking abint how he was homeless living in his car but a big part of these guys world view is that depression isn’t real. He then said his brother died and Louis asked him how and he said he killed himeself. But he was adamant depression isn’t really. That is toxic.

Historically, for the last few centuries at least, feminine traits kinda sucked and men had all the good ones. Since the 20tj century with the emergence of women’s rights we’ve seen a lot of women looking at masculine traits and thinking, you know what, I’ll have some of that. Likewise with men, we can look at more traditionally feminne traits like kindness and child rearing and adopt some of these as well. I’m sure when the zombie apocalypse happens it’s will change again.

I mean, professional sport messaging at the top level is pretty feminised, the brutality is leaving rugby, shoehorning female presenters and refs, encouraging political messaging and critical of religious views (Folau and Vunipolas being high profile). I was talking more grass routes, boys and young mens ability to participate is reducing across the board, funding lending itself to female sport.

The princess trust is now the Kings trust btw, and it only does female specific events, eomen supporting women and change a girls life programmes, whereas every programme to assist boys is an all inclusive one.
Ive also been part of a mens charity in Wales, apllying for funding for a mental health group to have a specific space for men to discuss specific male issues. It was denied due to not being inclusive and the hint was that it could be illegal to exclude women from a specific space at a specific time. The recomendation was to make rhe group imclusove by including everyone.
Another group i worked with had to pivot to a walking club, as they couldnt rent a space just for men lol, hell even mens sheds have had struggles maintaining their stance, they now promote health by stealth, include women, and focus on elderly vulnerables.

My argument isnt just the specifics, its the danger of all aspects converging to negatively effect boys and young men, the unique culture of online spaces, and the extremeties it promotes, compiled with boys and young men overwhelmingly reporting being ashamed of masculinity.

There is no toxic femininity terms, there is no mimster for boys and men, no studies on violence against men and boys, no refuge for male victims of domestic violence, no recognition of the suicide stats, no interest in fathers day, male action heros are replaced with women, music is focused on feminine money, sports opportunities are declining, and those that still exist are run and marketted to middle aged women , comminty opportunities are declining, there is absolutely a loneliness epidemic amongst boys currently... and amongst all these struggles these poor fuckers have no male role models to turn to for direction, and are bombarded daily with how bad they are. And finally, those that end up in the care system are bombarded with how it isnt their fault, its their ADHD or generational trauma that makes them want to do MDMA and stab people...

Im honestly worried we are walking blindly into a generation of unregulated, emotionally stunted, non rounded men who will contribute to huge struggles or even the failure of society
 
I mean, professional sport messaging at the top level is pretty feminised, the brutality is leaving rugby, shoehorning female presenters and refs, encouraging political messaging and critical of religious views (Folau and Vunipolas being high profile). I was talking more grass routes, boys and young mens ability to participate is reducing across the board, funding lending itself to female sport.

The princess trust is now the Kings trust btw, and it only does female specific events, eomen supporting women and change a girls life programmes, whereas every programme to assist boys is an all inclusive one.
Ive also been part of a mens charity in Wales, apllying for funding for a mental health group to have a specific space for men to discuss specific male issues. It was denied due to not being inclusive and the hint was that it could be illegal to exclude women from a specific space at a specific time. The recomendation was to make rhe group imclusove by including everyone.
Another group i worked with had to pivot to a walking club, as they couldnt rent a space just for men lol, hell even mens sheds have had struggles maintaining their stance, they now promote health by stealth, include women, and focus on elderly vulnerables.

My argument isnt just the specifics, its the danger of all aspects converging to negatively effect boys and young men, the unique culture of online spaces, and the extremeties it promotes, compiled with boys and young men overwhelmingly reporting being ashamed of masculinity.

There is no toxic femininity terms, there is no mimster for boys and men, no studies on violence against men and boys, no refuge for male victims of domestic violence, no recognition of the suicide stats, no interest in fathers day, male action heros are replaced with women, music is focused on feminine money, sports opportunities are declining, and those that still exist are run and marketted to middle aged women , comminty opportunities are declining, there is absolutely a loneliness epidemic amongst boys currently... and amongst all these struggles these poor fuckers have no male role models to turn to for direction, and are bombarded daily with how bad they are. And finally, those that end up in the care system are bombarded with how it isnt their fault, its their ADHD or generational trauma that makes them want to do MDMA and stab people...

Im honestly worried we are walking blindly into a generation of unregulated, emotionally stunted, non rounded men who will contribute to huge struggles or even the failure of society
I think you can already see we are with the likes of HS and Tate and what not.

I don’t know about grassroots as much as even though I’ve tried to get my boy into rugby he didn’t bite when he was 6 and he got scouted at football so just left it. I’d love him to start playing grassroots rugby and it would sadden me if I found his pathway blocked. I doubt it would though as is a pretty big club. It does have a female president though (my best man’s wife)

Look, if what you say is true, and I don’t doubt you, it’s not good. As I say I agree with a lot of what you say on this I just reject the idea that you can only focus on 1 issue. I came from a very male upbringing with most of my childhood being spent with my dad and brother and I have seen some crazy ******* women in my time. My brothers ex is probably one of the worst, vile people you will come across but we need to recognise that there’s a hell of a lot of problems in the world that need our attention. I can grant you that certain things are portrayed as more worthy of our attention than others which is wrong but that doesn’t mean to say the problems that are being promoted aren’t problems.
 
I think you can already see we are with the likes of HS and Tate and what not.

I don’t know about grassroots as much as even though I’ve tried to get my boy into rugby he didn’t bite when he was 6 and he got scouted at football so just left it. I’d love him to start playing grassroots rugby and it would sadden me if I found his pathway blocked. I doubt it would though as is a pretty big club. It does have a female president though (my best man’s wife)

Look, if what you say is true, and I don’t doubt you, it’s not good. As I say I agree with a lot of what you say on this I just reject the idea that you can only focus on 1 issue. I came from a very male upbringing with most of my childhood being spent with my dad and brother and I have seen some crazy ******* women in my time. My brothers ex is probably one of the worst, vile people you will come across but we need to recognise that there’s a hell of a lot of problems in the world that need our attention. I can grant you that certain things are portrayed as more worthy of our attention than others which is wrong but that doesn’t mean to say the problems that are being promoted aren’t problems.

Dont get me wrong, im not proposing ignoring other issues, and im in no way downplaying the struggles of girls and women, my argument is that NOONE is talking about boys struggles, and the stats over the last 30 years, and indeed since covid reflect the level of interest.

Its got so bad these dick heads are becoming counter culture role models, theyre the only people saying its ok to be masculine, its ok to be male.

But as i said, please point me in the right direction, wheres the positivity and pro masculine places i can take the boys about to get out of prison?
 
Dont get me wrong, im not proposing ignoring other issues, and im in no way downplaying the struggles of girls and women, my argument is that NOONE is talking about boys struggles, and the stats over the last 30 years, and indeed since covid reflect the level of interest.

Its got so bad these dick heads are becoming counter culture role models, theyre the only people saying its ok to be masculine, its ok to be male.

But as i said, please point me in the right direction, wheres the positivity and pro masculine places i can take the boys about to get out of prison?
Point them towards these charities I would say.

Other than that, do you know AWJ and Tipuric? 😍
 
Dont get me wrong, im not proposing ignoring other issues, and im in no way downplaying the struggles of girls and women, my argument is that NOONE is talking about boys struggles, and the stats over the last 30 years, and indeed since covid reflect the level of interest.

Its got so bad these dick heads are becoming counter culture role models, theyre the only people saying its ok to be masculine, its ok to be male.

But as i said, please point me in the right direction, wheres the positivity and pro masculine places i can take the boys about to get out of prison?
This post has the mark of the beast
 

So the first one BAM i have some experience with, theyre london based but their focus is on minorities.

The others im not sure about, none are Wales based id assume. Had a little look at the others, LND London based again, and Goshboys looks like one of those who are part of the problem.

Last year when the Tate thing was bigger, we had a training day for front line staff, about positive masculinity lol. A very slight, slightly efeminate middle aged man and a middle aged women delivering signs of toxic masculinity, and essentially telling front line workers that positive masculinity is pretty much feminism. Thank christ i wasnt involced short of faxilitating the course, had i been in the room for some of those discussions id have lost my job! Goshboys sounds like that.

Ive been chatting about this subject with a colleague this afternoon, he absolutely disagrees with any form of masculinity that even involves young boys having rambuctuous instincts, he did elude to one valuable point though, and that was viewpoint differs depending on what side of the nature nurture discussion you fall. I thought that was interesting, until he declared he was pro nurture, and society dictates most behaviour, except for generational trauma of course hahaha
 
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a70791447/piers-morgan-storms-off-manosphere-influencer-hstikkytokky/

Here you go @Welsh Exile now HS tikky tokky is not only being platformed on main stream TV, hes managed to troll Piers Morgan into rage quitting his own show ffs!!! Pop a W in the manosphere column.

Thisnis what im talking about, the fundamental misunderstanding of what the problem is leads to these idiots running around main stream media loving life!

Piers Morgan did the same thing with Andrew Tate, got him on, tried a gotcha and introduced a chess board, then proceeded to get stuffed and legitimised Tate to the world as a chess master ffs!!!

When will people look at the christian right from the 90s, running around screaming 'wont somebody please think of the children' and stop and think that maybe thats NOT the way to disinterest children from what they like to do?!?!
 
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a70791447/piers-morgan-storms-off-manosphere-influencer-hstikkytokky/

Here you go @Welsh Exile now HS tikky tokky is not only being platformed on main stream TV, hes managed to troll Piers Morgan into rage quitting his own show ffs!!! Pop a W in the manosphere column.

Thisnis what im talking about, the fundamental misunderstanding of what the problem is leads to these idiots running around main stream media loving life!

Piers Morgan did the same thing with Andrew Tate, got him on, tried a gotcha and introduced a chess board, then proceeded to get stuffed and legitimised Tate to the world as a chess master ffs!!!

When will people look at the christian right from the 90s, running around screaming 'wont somebody please think of the children' and stop and think that maybe thats NOT the way to disinterest children from what they like to do?!?!
And how should this be dealt with in the here and now?
 
And how should this be dealt with in the here and now?

We need real positive male role models, we need young men and boys to have ambition, we need a total overhaul on how we look at boys and young men...

Wait for it, the 'im being harrassed online" complaints are coming from Piers and hos wife, then the war on the manosphere will start proper, politicians will jump on board, and we are going to listen to Dianne Abbout and Angela Reyner talk about toxic masculinity being an epidemic!
 
We need real positive male role models, we need young men and boys to have ambition, we need a total overhaul on how we look at boys and young men...

Wait for it, the 'im being harrassed online" complaints are coming from Piers and hos wife, then the war on the manosphere will start proper, politicians will jump on board, and we are going to listen to Dianne Abbout and Angela Reyner talk about toxic masculinity being an epidemic!
Positive role models would be good and so would less single parent families but this is very wishy washy

The rest of what you’re saying sounds more like a prediction of a culture war than a solution. How does any of that help in the here and now?

If better role models are the answer, then who are they and how do they realistically compete with people like Tate for attention?
 
Positive role models would be good and so would less single parent families but this is very wishy washy

The rest of what you’re saying sounds more like a prediction of a culture war than a solution. How does any of that help in the here and now?

If better role models are the answer, then who are they and how do they realistically compete with people like Tate for attention?

Ok, valid point...

Step 1. Men only spaces have to be re introduced to the UK. Men need a space to be men, blow off steam and have younger men and boys learn vicariously from that.
 
Ps just watched the full Piers Tikky Tikky clip...

Its far worse than i thought, not only does HSTT make him rage bait, hes consistently calling for calm, Piers repeatedly uses HSTT mum to push him, and HSTT warns him a number of times he can do the same if thats what piers wants.

Satisfying to see Piers freak out lol, but annoyed this ******** and the tactics he uses has been so effective.

I mean, HSTT knew he had him from the off when he asked not to be told bro, and then explianed how his actual brothers are great men ffs.

Old people do not understand internet culture, the same way old people didnt understand MTV, the same way their old people didnt get the KISS references!
 
Ps just watched the full Piers Tikky Tikky clip...

Its far worse than i thought, not only does HSTT make him rage bait, hes consistently calling for calm, Piers repeatedly uses HSTT mum to push him, and HSTT warns him a number of times he can do the same if thats what piers wants.

Satisfying to see Piers freak out lol, but annoyed this ******** and the tactics he uses has been so effective.

I mean, HSTT knew he had him from the off when he asked not to be told bro, and then explianed how his actual brothers are great men ffs.

Old people do not understand internet culture, the same way old people didnt understand MTV, the same way their old people didnt get the KISS references!
Piers Morgan is a woke warrior now. I bet he wish he didn’t say woke is dead now. This is the world we live in.
 
I just listened to True Geordies coverage of it. As I’ve done a few searches on YouTube the algorithm has thrown up some people like him on my feed. I’ve never really listened to him before but know of him through some football stuff and while I don’t agree with everything he says (in fact he takes a similar-ish view to yours) I agree with the overall message he’s sending out, which is don’t listen to these guys, you don’t need loads of money, nice cars and young pretty women to validate yourself.
 
I just listened to True Geordies coverage of it. As I’ve done a few searches on YouTube the algorithm has thrown up some people like him on my feed. I’ve never really listened to him before but know of him through some football stuff and while I don’t agree with everything he says (in fact he takes a similar-ish view to yours) I agree with the overall message he’s sending out, which is don’t listen to these guys, you don’t need loads of money, nice cars and young pretty women to validate yourself.

How dare you!!! Compare me to true Geordie!!!!

Isnt he the gimp who gotninto youtuber boxing, and immediately quit social media for making a joke about Mo Salah?

I saw he did a response, as have 100 other youtubers, but i havnt finished watching the 2nd half of the doc yet, ill trawl through the reaction videos after.

Ps HS TT has made follow up videos to piers morgan, i didnt realise that Morgan didnt release the footage, it was HS TT that had the foresight to record the interaction incase Piers went underhanded...
 
US should make people join the military says Rob Schneider (yes the actor). Takes me back to 20+ years ago (🙈) internet talk where the advocates always pictured themselves ineligible like Rob.
 
This isn't really the right thread, but, something I've recently learned...

Husbands - if you thought that time you suggested that your wife was turning into her mother was bad - DO NOT suggest that she's turning into your own mother!

Wives - I'm case you were wondering, this is why we keep a stash of brownie points, ready to be spent.

My stash wasn't big enough. In my defence, she said exactly what my mother would have said, with exactly the same intonation and body language
 
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Im going to take a look at this tonight...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgp5g34kzpo

So, thisnis going tk let me down, Southgate is half way there, he recognises a problem, but i fear the solution is going to he the usial tripe, Andrew Tate bad, boys need to be more emotionally open blah blah blah...

The answer we actually have, a lot of pedagogy studies identify early years as shaping childrens futures, boys simply fail because between 2 and 9 they are victims of the same 2 things, not having a positive male role models, and being educated (or lack of) by a system designed for girls.

By the age of 9 its already too late, and your fighting a losing battle.

There is some great stuff to read and listen to, especially around boys learning techniques. One fascinating thing was the lack of ability to climb trees in recent years. Most of the west has eradicated the chance for little children, mostly boys to learn by failure, tree climbing os generally disallowed in supervised spaces, and access to woodland areas has reduced massively.

The link between tree climbing, and risk assessment, problem solving, confidence and most importantly the most undervalued skill in todays society, the tolerance of uncertainty. Now this is not just about tree climbimg, its about adventure and instructured play, and yes there is an argument about correlation and causatiin, but they both tend to lend to the idea that boys arent taught effectively at early ages.

Without getting into the weeds too much, there is also a male role model issue, more feminisation in teaching positions, the average age of fathers increasing, fathers in the home vanishing, and those of us who work in social care with young troubled men arent seen asexamples to look up to, pay is low, strength is lacking, average age is quite high etc...

All of thisnis fristating, because most organisations that target children who cant maintain mainstream education recognise these problems and create conditions for them to enfage with.

Fingers crossed thisndoesnt let me down, because although there are studies that show promise, there isnt any political will to make any changes as of yet.
 
Do you need a holiday, touch grass, or even someone to talk to?

DM me if your going through some stuff mate, im here for you!
I wish I could but all the grass is taken up with dark skinned foreigners and all the services are overwhelmed due to said dark skinned foreigners replacing my whiteness. What am I supposed to do?
 
You’ve outed yourself now don’t forget. No need to pretend and hide behind this “Seems london has an issue with abusive workers in public facing roles...” rubbish. You can just be honest and say, look at these Muslims. We should deport them.
 

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