Antisocial, societal issues thread

[Welsh Exile]

Wasnt much of a dad apparently

Clearly not.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Me and Harry do this a lot.

Are you married?

 

[mackerzz]

Are you married?

they're jointly married to the cock on your profile

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

they're jointly married to the cock on your profile

 

[dirty harry]

Am watching the Louis Theroux doc no @Welsh Exile ...

Within 5 mins its obvious HS is showing off to the Netflix cameras. Ive seen some of his stuff, he isnt as bravado driven as hes coming across here!

 

[dirty harry]

It feels like HS is trying to mock and shock Louis...

 

[Welsh Exile]

Am watching the Louis Theroux doc no @Welsh Exile ...

Within 5 mins its obvious HS is showing off to the Netflix cameras. Ive seen some of his stuff, he isnt as bravado driven as hes coming across here!

He’s showing off because he’s an insecure man not because he’s playing a character.

Not to totally disregard what you’re saying. There’s a bravado that you could call an online persona but you can tell he’s just a nob head really.

 

[dirty harry]

He’s showing off because he’s an insecure man not because he’s playing a character.

Not to totally disregard what you’re saying. There’s a bravado that you could call an online persona but you can tell he’s just a nob head really.

Hes a 23 year old child with millions of fans... hes not an insecure man, hes a young lad with a reputation to protect in front of a Netflix / world class documentarian.

 

[dirty harry]

Christ i dont want to be here slating louis, i love some of his earlier work...

But standing on Justin Wallers balcony, trying to use the fact he doesnt want his partner or 2 daughters on camera against him, and making the claim that women built the apartments around them, is kind of proving Wallers point! Wallers a bell end, but hes a characature of what sells, Louis doest seem interested in the reality of why hes a bell end, he just wants a quirky jim from rhe office style look to mock...

 

[dirty harry]

Jees... louis is on an episode of Fresh and fit, and theres no comment on these women paying to be in the show, to promote their only fans and sex work via rage bait and playing dumb. It feels disengenous.

 

[dirty harry]

Fell asleep half way through, very dissapointing i must say, insread of trying to lift the lid off the entire industry, and showing young boys and men that its all a mirage, Louis seems to have reinforced the idea that the manosphere is legitimate...

Instead of trying to make them look bad, which they dont care about because it legitimises their business, Louis just needed to put some pressure on the cracks, and reframe it as pagentry, by framing it as dangerous he absolute bought into their own narrative, that men need to break from the matrix to become successful.

Ill have another crack this week, see if it fets better but i dont have much hope

 

[Welsh Exile]

Fell asleep half way through, very dissapointing i must say, insread of trying to lift the lid off the entire industry, and showing young boys and men that its all a mirage, Louis seems to have reinforced the idea that the manosphere is legitimate...

Instead of trying to make them look bad, which they dont care about because it legitimises their business, Louis just needed to put some pressure on the cracks, and reframe it as pagentry, by framing it as dangerous he absolute bought into their own narrative, that men need to break from the matrix to become successful.

Ill have another crack this week, see if it fets better but i dont have much hope

Louis Theroux has his own style doesn’t he. I mean, it hasn’t changed really in decades. He’s quiet, unassuming and generally doesn’t push back too much. He lets people decide for themselves.

I do t think the framing was even that they’re dangerous. The impression I got was how deeply insecure and sad these guys worldviews are. They’re mostly anti semetic and misogynistic. Basically the type of guys you’d have nightmares about your daughter getting with. He did an ok job in my opinion but safe to say we look at this a bit differently. lol.

 

[dirty harry]

Louis Theroux has his own style doesn’t he. I mean, it hasn’t changed really in decades. He’s quiet, unassuming and generally doesn’t push back too much. He lets people decide for themselves.

I do t think the framing was even that they’re dangerous. The impression I got was how deeply insecure and sad these guys worldviews are. They’re mostly anti semetic and misogynistic. Basically the type of guys you’d have nightmares about your daughter getting with. He did an ok job in my opinion but safe to say we look at this a bit differently. lol.

Ye, you know though i will reel back some of my frustrations with it, ive just been chatting with a colleague over breakfast and she said something interesting...

Basically, Louis goal isnt to delegitimise these guys, his audience isnt young men who are vulnerable to them.

Louis Theroux's audience is far more likely to be middle class millenials with feminist views, not tech savvy 14 year old boys.

I loved his weird weekends, it was edgy and new, but as hes got older he just seems a bit more Jeremy Vine ish.

My frustrations are that he doesnt understand the culture online, isnt able to discern between what type of entertainment kids are into today, a bit like our rants at each other hes very much an old school thinker that entertainment has to fit into a category, and when it comes to this subject he cant get why these postumous arseholes get attention and popular, same with Tate, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what this is, and i suspect part of it is willing ignorance because the fear of manosphere type stuff drives views and engagement.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ye, you know though i will reel back some of my frustrations with it, ive just been chatting with a colleague over breakfast and she said something interesting...

Basically, Louis goal isnt to delegitimise these guys, his audience isnt young men who are vulnerable to them.

Louis Theroux's audience is far more likely to be middle class millenials with feminist views, not tech savvy 14 year old boys.

I loved his weird weekends, it was edgy and new, but as hes got older he just seems a bit more Jeremy Vine ish.

My frustrations are that he doesnt understand the culture online, isnt able to discern between what type of entertainment kids are into today, a bit like our rants at each other hes very much an old school thinker that entertainment has to fit into a category, and when it comes to this subject he cant get why these postumous arseholes get attention and popular, same with Tate, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what this is, and i suspect part of it is willing ignorance because the fear of manosphere type stuff drives views and engagement.

We’re all feminists aren’t we. Well, apart from those guys in the doc. lol.

 

[dirty harry]

We’re all feminists aren’t we. Well, apart from those guys in the doc. lol.

Not what i meant lol. It was just that most viewers of this doc will be diametrically opposed to a lot of their views (except maybe the antisemetic ones lol (Labour voters)).

But Theroux and i come at this from very different positions, im trying to deconstruct it, get the young persons perspective so i can delegitimise it in their view (the extreme stuff i mean) whereas for Theroux its ratings chasing content, the next Westboror baptist church.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Not what i meant lol. It was just that most viewers of this doc will be diametrically opposed to a lot of their views (except maybe the antisemetic ones lol (Labour voters)).

But Theroux and i come at this from very different positions, im trying to deconstruct it, get the young persons perspective so i can delegitimise it in their view (the extreme stuff i mean) whereas for Theroux its ratings chasing content, the next Westboror baptist church.

I think Theroux is generally pretty sympathetic. Funnily enough im jist listening to a recent LADbible thing he’s done where he’s answering questions from the public and he stays away from words like “evil” and stuff like that as he recognises that we’re all motivated by the same things. I think he genuinely loves making documentaries and doing weird sub culture stuff. The taboo if you will. Now, that doesn’t mean to say he’s free of bias or doesn’t make mistakes or doesn’t have blind spots but I personally wouldn’t characterise him as someone who’s just chasing content. I mean, sure, he wants to make money like the rest of us but I wouldn’t say that is his primary driver. Well, not like it is with this section of the Manosphere (which they are very open about)

 

[Welsh Exile]

Is the whole one sided relationship thing real in your opinion Harry or do you think off camera they let their wives have sex with other men just as they have sex with other women? Myron and that other guy strikes me as taking it pretty seriously and wouldn’t be happy if their wives/girlfriends did what they did and slept with other people.

 

[dirty harry]

I think Theroux is generally pretty sympathetic. Funnily enough im jist listening to a recent LADbible thing he’s done where he’s answering questions from the public and he stays away from words like “evil” and stuff like that as he recognises that we’re all motivated by the same things. I think he genuinely loves making documentaries and doing weird sub culture stuff. The taboo if you will. Now, that doesn’t mean to say he’s free of bias or doesn’t make mistakes or doesn’t have blind spots but I personally wouldn’t characterise him as someone who’s just chasing content. I mean, sure, he wants to make money like the rest of us but I wouldn’t say that is his primary driver. Well, not like it is with this section of the Manosphere (which they are very open about)

I think the nice guy persona is clouding you a bit, hes a documentary maker, incredibly successful one, you dont get where he is by bring a bumbling nice guy, not that i dislike him, or think hes a ruthless operator lol.

I dont think my frustrations are with him per se, its the current culture that demonises anything that speaks to young men, i genuinely feel we are at risk of an entire generation that lacks resilience, ambition and opportunity.
Some of the studies and stats coming out show that boys and young men are failing at record rates in every single category societally, its terrifying, and the only discussion to be had is how anything boys look up to is bad (no not the extremes)

 

[dirty harry]

Is the whole one sided relationship thing real in your opinion Harry or do you think off camera they let their wives have sex with other men just as they have sex with other women? Myron and that other guy strikes me as taking it pretty seriously and wouldn’t be happy if their wives/girlfriends did what they did and slept with other people.

I wouldnt trust a word any of them says on social media, whether its HS Tikky Tokky, the Liver king, Bonny blue or a Kardashian

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think the nice guy persona is clouding you a bit, hes a documentary maker, incredibly successful one, you dont get where he is by bring a bumbling nice guy, not that i dislike him, or think hes a ruthless operator lol.

I dont think my frustrations are with him per se, its the current culture that demonises anything that speaks to young men, i genuinely feel we are at risk of an entire generation that lacks resilience, ambition and opportunity.
Some of the studies and stats coming out show that boys and young men are failing at record rates in every single category societally, its terrifying, and the only discussion to be had is how anything boys look up to is bad (no not the extremes)

I would agree with you more if I got the impression that Theroux was actually doing this. Hes not even tarring all the Manosphere with the same brush.

“I’ve been learning about his ideological forefathers, the community of ultra masculine influencers sometimes called the Manosphere and so I’d come to its spiritual home, Miami. Much of the Manosphere is made up of relatively uncontroversial comedians and podcasters who broadcast about women, fitness and wealth to a mainly male audience. But at its edges is a community of more extreme content creators it is this world and its motivations that I am most intrigued by

 

[Welsh Exile]

I wouldnt trust a word any of them says on social media, whether its HS Tikky Tokky, the Liver king, Bonny blue or a Kardashian

So you think that behind scenes they let their wives/girlfriends **** other guys?

 

[dirty harry]

I would agree with you more if I got the impression that Theroux was actually doing this. Hes not even tarring all the Manosphere with the same brush.

“I’ve been learning about his ideological forefathers, the community of ultra masculine influencers sometimes called the Manosphere and so I’d come to its spiritual home, Miami. Much of the Manosphere is made up of relatively uncontroversial comedians and podcasters who broadcast about women, fitness and wealth to a mainly male audience. But at its edges is a community of more extreme content creators it is this world and its motivations that I am most intrigued by

This is my point, why hasnt he gone and spoken to these uncontraversial figures? Because the Manosphere is a catch all term to tarr anyone speaking to boys and men with the extreme bursh of the liles of these idiots.

There isnt a world where there are uncontraversial comedians, name me one. Who are the uncontraversial podcasters? Thisnis a qualifying statement, the same way someone like Sargon of Akkad will say 'immigrants in general are good, but look at these hundreds of thousands invading our country'.

The issue is, people who speak to boys and young men are a problem.

But hey if im wrong there will be a host of positive messaging influencers for boys and young men who arent under pressure, and are being promoted by the main stream...

 

[Welsh Exile]

This is my point, why hasnt he gone and spoken to these uncontraversial figures? Because the Manosphere is a catch all term to tarr anyone speaking to boys and men with the extreme bursh of the liles of these idiots.

There isnt a world where there are uncontraversial comedians, name me one. Who are the uncontraversial podcasters? Thisnis a qualifying statement, the same way someone like Sargon of Akkad will say 'immigrants in general are good, but look at these hundreds of thousands invading our country'.

The issue is, people who speak to boys and young men are a problem.

But hey if im wrong there will be a host of positive messaging influencers for boys and young men who arent under pressure, and are being promoted by the main stream...

Why hasn’t he spoken to uncontroversial figures?

But at its edges is a community of more extreme content creators it is this world and its motivations that I am most intrigued by

I mean, this is what he’s ALWAYS done. This is his schtick, his bag, what he’s always liked to do and what people are interested in watching.

He literally says in the documentary that there’s many people in the Manosphere that aren’t like the people he’s focusing on in the documentary. If he was tarring all these people with the same brush I’d agree with you. Just like if he tried to tar all Jews or Israelis as the settlers in the West Bank but he doesn’t. He focusses on taboo.

There’s loads of uncontroversial podcasts but it depends on you doesn’t it. What I might find controversial someone else might not. There’s lots of mainstream podcasts that talk about a variety of things in an extremely boring uncontroversial way. Comedians less so as a big part of their job os to push boundaries and offend.

 

[dirty harry]

Why hasn’t he spoken to uncontroversial figures?

But at its edges is a community of more extreme content creators it is this world and its motivations that I am most intrigued by

I mean, this is what he’s ALWAYS done. This is his schtick, his bag, what he’s always liked to do and what people are interested in watching.

He literally says in the documentary that there’s many people in the Manosphere that aren’t like the people he’s focusing on in the documentary. If he was tarring all these people with the same brush I’d agree with you. Just like if he tried to tar all Jews or Israelis as the settlers in the West Bank but he doesn’t. He focusses on taboo.

There’s loads of uncontroversial podcasts but it depends on you doesn’t it. What I might find controversial someone else might not. There’s lots of mainstream podcasts that talk about a variety of things in an extremely boring uncontroversial way. Comedians less so as a big part of their job os to push boundaries and offend.

If you were to make a documentary on the west bank, talk to settlers and extremists and refer to them as Jewish, and saying that most Jews are uncontraversial, but are only intervoewing these extremists who want the West bank back... youd call it antisemitism. Because using a qualifier, like riling a crowd up and dropping in 'protest peacefully' is still negligent.

So, who are these pro boys and men podcasters, and comedians? Who is spraking out on behalf of boys and young men?

 

[Welsh Exile]

If you were to make a documentary on the west bank, talk to settlers and extremists and refer to them as Jewish, and saying that most Jews are uncontraversial, but are only intervoewing these extremists who want the West bank back... youd call it antisemitism. Because using a qualifier, like riling a crowd up and dropping in 'protest peacefully' is still negligent.

So, who are these pro boys and men podcasters, and comedians? Who is spraking out on behalf of boys and young men?

Oh, I was talking generally in terms of podcasts. Not specifically male oriented ones. To be honest I don’t know that world at all so I couldn’t comment but I’d take Louis’ word for it. He’s done his research and he says most people in that space are ok but there’s an extreme section that write books called “Why women deserve less” and edgy stuff like that. But yeah, I don’t know that world well enough to comment but there’s loads of normal stuff boys can listen to that don’t involve men with big muscles, nice cars and several scantily clad young women around them. I mean, my boy likes sport and dinosaurs. lol.

I haven’t actually seen his settler documentary but I’d bet my mortgage on him not portraying all Israeli society like that let alone all Jews.

 

[dirty harry]

Oh, I was talking generally in terms of podcasts. Not specifically male oriented ones. To be honest I don’t know that world at all so I couldn’t comment but I’d take Louis’ word for it. He’s done his research and he says most people in that space are ok but there’s an extreme section that write books called “Why women deserve less” and edgy stuff like that. But yeah, I don’t know that world well enough to comment but there’s loads of normal stuff boys can listen to that don’t involve men with big muscles, nice cars and several scantily clad young women around them. I mean, my boy likes sport and dinosaurs. lol.

I haven’t actually seen his settler documentary but I’d bet my mortgage on him not portraying all Israeli society like that let alone all Jews.

But thats my point, there is no male orientated content allowed that isnt lumped in with the extremes.you cant name one, and neither can i, despite being involved in it and trying to help a lot of young men, i cant sign post them anywhere without there being a stigma attached.

I didnt know Theroux had a settler doc tbh, i was just making the point it would be antisemetic to only cover extreme examples of Jews doing bad things, with a quick caveat that there are probably good ones.

The term manosphere is a main stream media way of lumping anything masculine, or male orientated in with extreme characatures.

These idiots should be viewed as a byeproduct of social media and algorithm creating extreme content. Sneako, Bonny Blue, Jack Doherty, Drew Afualo etc are radical because thats what gets what they want, its an algorithm issue, not a man bad issue.

Hell i bet you have never heard of the Femosphere... its exactly the opposite of what you think it would be, the Femosphere is basically women who advocate for men lol. Pearl davies, Roma Army etc...

So men who create content for boys and young men bad, women who create content for boys and young men bad. The only deduction is that content created for boys and young men is bad.

Of all the issues and problematic content online that harms, male orientated content doesnt crack the top 10, infact id suggest the biggest threat of from these dicks is through the scams they create to make money, and in fact in the frand scheme of things young men are far more likely to be scammed in 10 other ways ffs.

We are seeing an exploding number of sextortion and romance scams on young twen boys currently, i could name 5 cases off the top of my head, why isnt there a huge outcry about it?

Reportedly the issue hit 10s of thousands of cases last year, and 95% male victims, why isnt this a national discussion? The suicide rates linked to these scams is blowing up also, weve had 2 cases in Wales this year alone.

 

[Welsh Exile]

But thats my point, there is no male orientated content allowed that isnt lumped in with the extremes.you cant name one, and neither can i, despite being involved in it and trying to help a lot of young men, i cant sign post them anywhere without there being a stigma attached.

I didnt know Theroux had a settler doc tbh, i was just making the point it would be antisemetic to only cover extreme examples of Jews doing bad things, with a quick caveat that there are probably good ones.

The term manosphere is a main stream media way of lumping anything masculine, or male orientated in with extreme characatures.

These idiots should be viewed as a byeproduct of social media and algorithm creating extreme content. Sneako, Bonny Blue, Jack Doherty, Drew Afualo etc are radical because thats what gets what they want, its an algorithm issue, not a man bad issue.

Hell i bet you have never heard of the Femosphere... its exactly the opposite of what you think it would be, the Femosphere is basically women who advocate for men lol. Pearl davies, Roma Army etc...

So men who create content for boys and young men bad, women who create content for boys and young men bad. The only deduction is that content created for boys and young men is bad.

Of all the issues and problematic content online that harms, male orientated content doesnt crack the top 10, infact id suggest the biggest threat of from these dicks is through the scams they create to make money, and in fact in the frand scheme of things young men are far more likely to be scammed in 10 other ways ffs.

We are seeing an exploding number of sextortion and romance scams on young twen boys currently, i could name 5 cases off the top of my head, why isnt there a huge outcry about it?

Reportedly the issue hit 10s of thousands of cases last year, and 95% male victims, why isnt this a national discussion? The suicide rates linked to these scams is blowing up also, weve had 2 cases in Wales this year alone.

Why would it be anti semitic to cover a certain section of Israeli society? You lost me there. It’s perfectly ok to criticise fringe groups, or even large groups if its warranted, that doesn’t make it inherently racist. It would be anti semitic if he made out that all Jews are like the religious zealots in the West Bank and demonised them.

Well there is more awareness about these scammers scamming young men. I think Tate himself ran these types of scams on young men in his early days and you see it with that Tikky Tokky guy who it seems makes his money selling girls online basically.

 

[Welsh Exile]

@dirty harry do you think Theroux could’ve been talking about your Theo Vons (or whatever his name is) and that other Trump guy with the moustache, I forget his name. I mean, I don’t like these guys but at least they don’t, as far as I’m aware, constantly spout misogynistic stuff.

 

[Welsh Exile]

 

[dirty harry]

@dirty harry do you think Theroux could’ve been talking about your Theo Vons (or whatever his name is) and that other Trump guy with the moustache, I forget his name. I mean, I don’t like these guys but at least they don’t, as far as I’m aware, constantly spout misogynistic stuff.

Theo Von and Schultz i thinknyour talking about are borderline racist sexist, but get away with it under the guise of funny. Christ Theo vons persona is a racist backwater hick, and Shultz literally has the Afolph stash lol.

Both very funny, but neither talk dirrctly to boys or young men, neither have messaging, theyre just funny. Similar to Shane Gillis. All these guys are in the same orbit, Joe Rogan, Segura, Hinchcliffe, Dillon etc... these are a different category (i **** you not) that are deemed Rogan sphere, look it up i dare you.

This is my point, manosphere isnt an issue to young boys, and not a threat to young girls, its extremist content along the lines of Drew Afuelo, The Kardashians, and Bonny blue. They are all damaging to society together, but by grouping these idiots together its obvious social media and the algorithm are problematic to society, whereas if you go after the easiest possible target in current day (males) then it becomes that the content is dangerous, not the platform.